[Priest] Dragonwrath Stats on PTR

[Zuziza]

Hit is fine, thats easily workable since it has a cap. But since crit is about the worst stat for all casters except fire mages (and frost before the cap) I think its reasonable that it should be changed to mastery or haste.

Kinda this is why I'm so against crit. It's not very helpful to a LOT of caster DPS. This could be fixed by switching to mastery or haste or just adding a third secondary stat to the final staff.

I'm against the hit (or at least so much hit) because we should be hitcapped or close to it before we even get into the raids where we farm the items to finish the chain. It doesn't make sense to have that ridiculous amount of hit on it; we'd have to have items in reserve to switch around so we're not crazy over the cap or we'd have to reforge out of a lot of the hit once we first get it.

[Irony]

I hope Blizzard just does the "cheap" thing and just let us choose haste, crit or mastery for our staff. It would stop so many complaints. Like mine, only fire mages like crit more than haste, way to be jerks.

[ibogdandx]

If the stats remain the same , that staff will have "firemage" written all over it.

[zito]

I hope Blizzard just does the "cheap" thing and just let us choose haste, crit or mastery for our staff. It would stop so many complaints. Like mine, only fire mages like crit more than haste, way to be jerks.

That would be the smart thing to do.

If the stats remain the same , that staff will have "firemage" written all over it.

NO RLLY

[Zunari]

Yeahhh...

Technically, yes, the Staff could possibly be suitable for a healer after some reforging. But considering it's a Legendary that a whole guild has to help work towards, to give to one person, I highly doubt a healer will ever get a chance to have this weapon (while it's a prominent weapon).

[Deleted]

Yeahhh...

Technically, yes, the Staff could possibly be suitable for a healer after some reforging. But considering it's a Legendary that a whole guild has to help work towards, to give to one person, I highly doubt a healer will ever get a chance to have this weapon (while it's a prominent weapon).

and technically the bow could have been used by tanks, and rogues. Healers will never get there hands on this due to the proc which has been hinted at multiple times.

[Dyra]

I don't particularly like the hit. I mean I'm only just geared for heroics and I've reached the hit cap in blues; any extra hit provided by this weapon should already of been accumulated through a combination of epics grabbed through raids/ZA/ZG, making it redundant. I believe the hit should be converted into Haste.

Now I maybe completely imagining this (it was quite some time ago I think I saw it). But I think I read in a Blue post before Cata was released that with each raid release the values of the secondary stats (and Spirit) would be adjusted to prevent the sort of hard cap reaching we were seeing at the end of Wrath. So since I cannot remember any rating - percent conversions off the top of my head I'll make some up; so say we need 150 hit rating for 1% hit with 4.2 this might now become we need 200 hit for 1% hit rating. So we should be maintaining about the same haste, mastery and crit levels when we reach the same gear level as we are now, if not slightly higher. I imagine the primary stats won't be tweaked as the bosses damage and health is also going to increase proportionally.

[Prod]

Gonna stop you right here and say that you're not quite on the mark with this one. I do agree with the rest of your point though.

Well to be fair, Hit may not be the all around best stat (after int) for all caster dps, it is still the most universal stat (after int) in that some specs can always go with zero mastery from gear, or zero crit or zero haste (little haste?) but no spec can go zero hit. So this way, hit won't ever be a "wasted" stat (like mastery on a fire mage when crit/haste is way better or something similar).

[Arlee]

Well to be fair, Hit may not be the all around best stat (after int) for all caster dps, it is still the most universal stat (after int) in that some specs can always go with zero mastery from gear, or zero crit or zero haste (little haste?) but no spec can go zero hit. So this way, hit won't ever be a "wasted" stat (like mastery on a fire mage when crit/haste is way better or something similar).

Idk... imo any hit that puts you over hit cap is completely wasted because beyond hit cap it does absolutely nothing for you. Not disagreeing with the part about that no one would run with zero hit gear, just with the idea that hit can't be a wasted stat.

[Prod]

^Well I'm under the assumption that BiS gear won't put you over the cap which is the case for current heroic BiS (at least for Mages). Besides, I have yet to come across a situation where I have like 100 extra hit rating, even after reforging. In that sense, the Hit on this staff will most probably be not wasted.

[Sesshou]

and technically the bow could have been used by tanks, and rogues. Healers will never get there hands on this due to the proc which has been hinted at multiple times.

Even with the proc, Valan'yr was Best in Slot for Shadow. Doesn't matter that no Shadow Priest would ever actually get the damn thing didn't stop it from being "the best" at the time.

The same will be true for Tarecgosa.

I guess everyone forgot the rogue who got their guilds first legendary bow? There are other things that get considered with legendaries, one of the big ones is that you generally want to make sure it stays in guild and the guy with it doesn't transfer on you. There were soooo many scrubs in so-so guilds who got a shadowmorne and then went to app to far better guilds.

[Arlee]

Well as with all our gearing it depends on how you complement the staff with other gear. I would imagine with so much hit on that staff it would be really easy to go over hit cap, especially if you are draneai (I personally am finding i have to dump hit all over the place). The upside though is using that staff would probably let us use more gear that doesn't have itemization taken up by spirit/hit, which overall would be good

[Hellfury]

The crit will probably gona be turned to haste, hit can stay

[Kelesti]

I guess everyone forgot the rogue who got their guilds first legendary bow? There are other things that get considered with legendaries, one of the big ones is that you generally want to make sure it stays in guild and the guy with it doesn't transfer on you. There were soooo many scrubs in so-so guilds who got a shadowmorne and then went to app to far better guilds.

I didn't forget. I just was keeping the references to something a lot of our more... recent players could relate to.

---------- Post added 2011-05-11 at 09:42 AM ----------

The crit will probably gona be turned to haste, hit can stay

If there's that much haste on a weapon, and that much hit, a healer can reforge that hit and it will still be absolutely delicious. Haste is too good.

[[-Spiritus-]]

Hit on the staff makes it dead for healers, even jokingly. Also, with Hit being a scaling stat through tiers in this expansion, it is appropriate that the weapon has hit on it.

Its a pew pew staff guys. Let 'em have their fun.

[Zuziza]

If there's that much haste on a weapon, and that much hit, a healer can reforge that hit and it will still be absolutely delicious. Haste is too good.

As Spiritus said, it's still not likely for a healer to get this staff over a DPS. Looking at the preliminary pieces, a raid would benefit most from giving it to a caster DPS (regardless of spec) than to a healer. Until we see the other weapons dropping from Firelands, the staff you have until it's the final product probably wouldn't be as good for healers as some other pieces. We can't tell for sure though until the stats are finalized and theorycrafters get numbercrunching.

If you're in a guild where a healer is the first priority, I'd suggest getting out.... it's either a fail loot council or the healer's an officer. Legendaries should first go to the specs they are designed for, considering the sheer effort others will put in to help farm mats. You expect a caster to stick around when they get snubbed by an atonement priest AND to give their all in raids farming mats they think should go to them? Giving it to one DPS over another is one thing, but giving it to a healer is just insulting.

[Hustle8]

Oh it has hit, healers can still use it right!?
Oh it has stam, so tanks can still use it right?
Get a grip, its a dps staff.

---------- Post added 2011-05-11 at 01:10 PM ----------

Now I maybe completely imagining this (it was quite some time ago I think I saw it). But I think I read in a Blue post before Cata was released that with each raid release the values of the secondary stats (and Spirit) would be adjusted to prevent the sort of hard cap reaching we were seeing at the end of Wrath. So since I cannot remember any rating - percent conversions off the top of my head I'll make some up; so say we need 150 hit rating for 1% hit with 4.2 this might now become we need 200 hit for 1% hit rating. So we should be maintaining about the same haste, mastery and crit levels when we reach the same gear level as we are now, if not slightly higher. I imagine the primary stats won't be tweaked as the bosses damage and health is also going to increase proportionally.

I hope this is wrong, you log into 4.2 and need another 1k hit rating to hit cap? Pretty sure blizzard isn't THAT dumb.

[Kelesti]

If you're in a guild where a rogue is the first priority, I'd suggest getting out.... it's either a fail loot council or the rogue's an officer. Legendaries should first go to the specs they are designed for, considering the sheer effort others will put in to help take down M'uru, let alone Kil'jaedan. You expect a hunter to stick around[...]

Fixed that for you.

And no, I play main-spec Holy. I won't ever see this weapon for myself because my guild's not completely retarded. Someone back on page 1 said to turn the hit into haste, and what would that accomplish?

Spirit has diminishing returns, on some pieces not having it doesn't really detract an item from its "healer" value if the intellect and other stats are good enough. Spirit can be "wasted", just like Hit. So if it has haste on it, well, one wouldn't need to be Discipline to take advantage of it (if anything, I'd put the money on Resto Shaman, thanks to Telluric Currents needing Hit).

Hit/Crit prevents any healer from ever wanting it. Ever. No matter what the proc is. Shadow wanted Valan'yr, not for the proc, but because it was decently itemized. Hit/Mastery works great for some specs, terrible for others. And Hit/Haste is just too appealing. So Hit/Crit is the lesser of all evils, but will be greatly outweighed by the ridiculous proc.

---------- Post added 2011-05-11 at 11:16 AM ----------

I hope this is wrong, you log into 4.2 and need another 1k hit rating to hit cap? Pretty sure blizzard isn't THAT dumb.

Not quite. As far as I remember, to counter stats inflation, they were going to give bosses a bit of Expertise (to counter tank dodge/parry), and make them require roughly enough hit rating that you need between 1-2% extra above.

4.2 won't change 5 mans or the content we've been doing since launch, but Firelands stuff and beyond should (assuming they're keeping to at least one idea since Concept) to stop people from hitcapping off two pieces of gear by the time we kill Deathwing.

[Zuziza]

Fixed that for you.

And no, I play main-spec Holy. I won't ever see this weapon for myself because my guild's not completely retarded. Someone back on page 1 said to turn the hit into haste, and what would that accomplish?

Spirit has diminishing returns, on some pieces not having it doesn't really detract an item from its "healer" value if the intellect and other stats are good enough. Spirit can be "wasted", just like Hit. So if it has haste on it, well, one wouldn't need to be Discipline to take advantage of it (if anything, I'd put the money on Resto Shaman, thanks to Telluric Currents needing Hit).

At least in that case it was a DPS weapons still going to a DPS. The healer/dps argument takes it a step further in it not just being for an inappropriate class/spec for stat priority, it's outright ignoring the role it's designed for. Vala'nyr would be a better comparison, but it still didn't go to spriests first (unless they rolled holy/disc as main spec just for that raid tier), and tanks didn't figure that the stam on made it worth taking from a healer.

An spriest/boomkin/eleshaman/lock etc. can all reforge out of crit or hit depending on which they need less of (and the fire mages all get to do the banana dance cause they don't have to reforge), but a healer would literally get 0 utility out of the highest secondary stat on that staff. Even reforging, that's more than +200 hit and a damage proc that never happens. These weapons were designed with a role in mind, ignoring it for self-gain just costs your guild drama and utility

I stand by the comment I said about giving it to a healer will cause people to leave. Drama's going to happen even if it goes to an appropriate DPS, but do you really expect all the caster DPS in a guild to stick around and farm that item for a healer? Any DPS that does their job well and has some pride is going to be mightily pissed off by that, and I wouldn't blame any of them for ditching a guild to find one with loot council that actually has some sense. While it's arguable that similar issues will come up even if it goes to the top dps, best guildee non-officer happy nice person to ever play WoW, it's a very different circumstance. Giving the staff to a healer akin to giving a Crossfire Carbine to a huntard over a maintank warrior with a 346 just because hunters can use guns and can get some utility out of it. There are better roles and specs for certain items, and blatantly ignoring that for a brand new orange it going to wreck your guild.

/nerdragerant

Hit/Crit prevents any healer from ever wanting it. Ever. No matter what the proc is. Shadow wanted Valan'yr, not for the proc, but because it was decently itemized. Hit/Mastery works great for some specs, terrible for others. And Hit/Haste is just too appealing. So Hit/Crit is the lesser of all evils, but will be greatly outweighed by the ridiculous proc.

I disagree with this only because they had the option of making it 3 secondary stats, which is easily viable for most DPS since we have to have a balance of all 4. I'm slowly coming to terms with the stupid amount of hit on it (healers, shoo), but crit is just weak. It's not highly valued by any caster DPS except fire mages. Even if we (as spriests) reforge the hit to haste, there will be more crit than haste on it. While the crazy amount of hit makes it an easier way to lock out healers from vying for the staff (except in idiotic guild as I ranted about earlier), having only crit on it otherwise makes it a fire mage staff that other casters can also benefit from. As the staff is now, we basically want it for intellect and sockets, which is exactly why healers want it. That's just degrading.

Since the proc isn't announced yet and they can edit the staff, there's still a chance it'll be more evened out. I'm really hoping the proc is something most DPS caster specs can benefit from instead of something narrowly specific to something like burst damage casters, DoT casters, or AOE casters. Yay for turning into a blue (purple in shadowform) dragon and going pewpew, but I'm really antsy to know what it actually does to help damage output.

[Solia]

::Quote made to refer to Thor' Di for Rogues/Warriors in BC::

Fixed that for you.

That situation was different back then. Once you actually had the bow drop, all content in the expansion was on farm. The bow was already a vanity item by default of dropping off the final boss of an expansion.

We did have the lone Hunter leave over this, as he was not assured of getting the Bow when he asked the officers about it (he had only been in the guild for about two months) vs it being allowed to be bidded on by our longtime raiding Warriors/Rogues.

I willing to bet that the Crit on it will be replaced by Mastery, since that's the new stat of this expansion, as much as I rather see it with Haste instead.