Rogues seem to be in a good spot/boring!

[Verain]

It's not so much boring, IMO, as it is... set in stone.


Right now there is a lull. We don't know about the expac info besides a few previewed talents that are too early to call.

If you think rogues are not good enough in pvp, as I do, then... wait till next expac. No guarantee it will be better, but the devs simply won't address it. Hardly any top rogues? They all rerolled? 0 rogues at the tournament, not even for one single game (even priests got one game!)? Don't matter. Blizzard won't fix.

In PvE, rogues seem to be tuned about right. The only classes above the devs have been publicly saying are OP for literally months. But the mechanics will all be screwed up for next expac.


The mop redesign shit on rogues. Deleted them from pvp, made the class mediocre in most pve situations. But, they started adding fixes. They made it playable in pvp, and good in pve. It took them about 8 months from launch to finally make up for the page long list of punishments that were unnecessary, untested and unviable. Everyone QQed about cata rogues, but they were over twice as fair as mop warriors, only having a small edge on the charts. Comp diversity was high. Now it is shit.

Will WoD feature a similar deletion and nerf package? I don't know. I'm enjoying my raiding now, but the pvp is so fucked up and weird that it feels like an obligation, and so many other games offer real pvp without this baggage. I like nailing good CC chains and kills and tricking players, but I still hate the skill system. I mean, just LOOK at most classes talent trees- they are almost all pvp tricks. Six tiers of pvp tricks for rogues, and one effects raids. Many classes have "choose a CC school" as their talent wave at certain levels. It's clear why they did this- as pve tricks, they would have a devil of a time balancing everything, so they were only arsed to do so with some classes. Further homegenization (readiness) will make this even harder, as the choice between "take this passive" and "take this cooldown" will make readiness have to skip that cooldown.

So, we don't know what the devs are doing. Thus far the wod changes look awful (IMO, esp gear changes), but it really is too early to tell.


I'm not posting much because I don't know what's going on next, and partly because I'm very unexcited about WoD so far. All of that could change with like, a tweet. Or better yet, a cool dev watercooler or big forum post. But we won't see any changes for the rest of MoP- you could come up with the best rogue idea in the world, and we wouldn't see it implemented until WoD.

Where it would be a monk talent. Did you hear they are getting like, killing spree? But they will be invincible during it. They're so novel. What a good idea.

What makes Assassination the "poison" spec other than a large portion of its damage is poisons? Assassination is the "poison" spec yet it uses the exact same poisons as every other spec. It only has two additional abilities that even involve poison, one is venomous wounds which no one really even notices other than making sure to keep rupture up like every other spec. And the other is envenom which is eviscerate with a buff.

The previous posts covered the big ones- mutilate's entire mastery is poisons- but I wanted to cover a bit more.
Mutilate being poison lets me deal real damage to a plate wearer in pvp, even one with a shield. Envenom is amazing compared to eviscerate on such targets. Deadly poison is FAR more potent in the hands of a mutilate rogue than a combat or sub rogue, and this is notable. You will hardly ever find yourself multirupturing as sub, and NEVER as combat, but often as mutilate. Why? Because of venomous wounds! Each VW proc gives you energy. And of course, targets must be both bleeding and poisoned to trigger that. Gods I wished it worked with crimson tempest. Our aoe would actually not be a third of everyone else's in all three specs.

[catablitz]

The game survived Death Knights. Nothing can be worse. Think positive!

[slickwilly]

Rogues are first to be sat for a reason

[Deleted]

Either Sub or Assa needs to be changed from a almost single target only spec to be something in between what it is now and the awesome AoE spec that Combat is. Sortof a 1spec-fits-all sort of thing. Right now Im using Combat for most fights and Sub for a few where I can be behind the boss the entire time. We need a spec we can actually use all thrugh the raid.

Assass is the all rounded spec already o.o. It has our strongest aoe infact, and has decent single target and cleave, the only reason you don't see it played is because there are no fights with actual aoe, bar maybe immerseus but that's only a small part of the fight.]]

Or maybe i'm wrong and mastery stacked assass isn't strong aoe anymore?

[mongoose6]

Also, Malkorok is the only boss where you have to be in front of the target for a significant amount of time. Possibly swarmkeeper when soaking that yellow line thingy.

[mistahwilshire]

Rogues are in a great spot but the spec differentiation is absolutely horrendous and makes playing the class boring overall. Hunters are in the same position except not as great in PvE.

- - - Updated - - -

Rogues are first to be sat for a reason

If you're sitting rogues this tier then your raid leader is a huge moron or you have an incredibly incompetent rogue.

[Mafic]

IMO the class has been improved since the MoP beta/launch disarray. With that said here is what I want to see:

*Combat and Sub to have their rightful identities restored again. Sub = more utility tools, Combat = toe to toe spec

*Combat having a worthy finisher to use

*Sub having backstab being useable from the front

*Improve a lot of useless glyphs

*Fix stealth issues

[Naiattavain]

Forums some what dead of late. Random "How I r gud rogue" threads with a slew of other random misc. BS thrown out there. Yet... really no complaints outside of the loot frustration thread and the random sucks to level thread.

Rogues are doing great damage in a wide variety of ways, not as strong as locks but they'll get their nerfs in due time, but over all in a very strong position that raids actively recruit for rogue spots. Very strong utility and the best defenses in the game.

Compared to other forums around here rogue's seem relatively content/happy with their current lives.

It's boring! Really there aren't too many crazy things out there for rogues to do with crazy strats that rogue's are able to pull off or little neato things to get away with on a boss that no one else can. Hell, in the random blue posts on the front page there hasn't even been a single mention of rogues at all.

Are we doomed to semi boredom til beta stuff starts coming out?

hypothetically you are a doctor; aware of your vast control over people lives and the responsibility that goes along with being a doctor.

your patient you have to check his vital signs, his heart rate, blood pressure etc.

you are a talented doctor and can tell by checking your patients heart rate and blood pressure.

again the rogue class seems to be doing fine except the experience is terrible.

[Buxton McGraff]

Rogues are the one class that has deserved / needed a redesign for about 4 years now.

Not sure why they get such little attention, but I agree they're the most boring class by far.

[Deleted]

I don't know about boring, rogue is probably my favourite class. Needs some touchups not something that will change the class.

[mongoose6]

*Improve a lot of useless glyphs

^This. Still trying to figure out why I have 6 different damage increasing glyphs on my Prot Warrior and zero on my Sub Rogue.

[Warstar]

Rogues are first to be sat for a reason

I can see in a pvp situation maybe?

Pve if rogues are the first to be sat you need to find a different guild because your's is down right retarded. Rogue's are still the top melee class by far and bring so much to the raid it'd be down right stupid to sit a rogue for someone else.

[jazzyy]

I can see in a pvp situation maybe?

Pve if rogues are the first to be sat you need to find a different guild because your's is down right retarded. Rogue's are still the top melee class by far and bring so much to the raid it'd be down right stupid to sit a rogue for someone else.

I was about to say... Who the fuck is sitting rogues? The class is so good that Top 10 Heroic raiding guilds take 4 of them. FOUR OF THEM. Who the fuck is sitting a rogue?

[Tehterokkar]

^This. Still trying to figure out why I have 6 different damage increasing glyphs on my Prot Warrior and zero on my Sub Rogue.

Nearly all Tank spec related glyphs are for more DPS, nearly all DPS spec related glyphs are for more survival/convenience.. Holy shit = mind blown!

DPS related Glyphs for DPS specs are bad, same reason they don't put DPS talents into a tier with 2 survival talents, nobody would take the survival talents. There are 3 glyphs I see very good for any Rogue spec: Feint, Redirect, Cloak of Shadows. Rogues overall have a lot of utility glyphs that can be swapped on a fight by fight basis. The only real DPS glyph I know of is Vendetta, which is justified in a way.

[mongoose6]

Nearly all Tank spec related glyphs are for more DPS, nearly all DPS spec related glyphs are for more survival/convenience.. Holy shit = mind blown!

DPS related Glyphs for DPS specs are bad, same reason they don't put DPS talents into a tier with 2 survival talents, nobody would take the survival talents. There are 3 glyphs I see very good for any Rogue spec: Feint, Redirect, Cloak of Shadows. Rogues overall have a lot of utility glyphs that can be swapped on a fight by fight basis. The only real DPS glyph I know of is Vendetta, which is justified in a way.

Aye, but they COULD make situationally usefull damage glphs, i.e. the Warrior rude interruption glyph. I think sharpened blades glyph was successfull and i do sometimes switch to that glyph. It would just be nice if our glyph decisions from fight to fight had more impact on our role.

[Tehterokkar]

Aye, but they COULD make situationally usefull damage glphs, i.e. the Warrior rude interruption glyph. I think sharpened blades glyph was successfull and i do sometimes switch to that glyph. It would just be nice if our glyph decisions from fight to fight had more impact on our role.

Rude Interruption is a glyph because it was a talent back in Cata/Wrath(even TBC?). They turned nearly all talents from Cata to Glyphs/passives you get as you level up for MoP.

Glyph of Feint is technically a DPS increase, as you'd have to refresh it less often if we ever got a boss like Ra-Den with insane AoE damage again.

The game is better off without any mandatory glyphs for DPS or Talents that are significantly better than other choices(Hello Anticipation!, Rogues overall have the most fcked up Talent tree)

[mongoose6]

Rude Interruption is a glyph because it was a talent back in Cata/Wrath(even TBC?). They turned nearly all talents from Cata to Glyphs/passives you get as you level up for MoP.

Glyph of Feint is technically a DPS increase, as you'd have to refresh it less often if we ever got a boss like Ra-Den with insane AoE damage again.

The game is better off without any mandatory glyphs for DPS or Talents that are significantly better than other choices(Hello Anticipation!, Rogues overall have the most fcked up Talent tree)

Oh I agree that the mandatory glyphs were uninteresting, but I feel (and this is a personal opinion) that the current glyph set is boring. I understand why the glphs are the way they are, I've played long enough to understand the evolution of talents or even set bonuses becoming glphs, I just flat out think the current iteration is boring. You could roll without any glphs at all on most fights with zero loss of dps or survivability.

[shadowboy]

The point of glyphs is not really about increasing throughput, or even about survivability. They each have their situational uses, except probably for the blade flurry glyph which is useless in every situation. I find myself swapping frequently between quite a few glyphs (recuperate, recovery, sharp knives, expose armor, smoke bomb, evasion, and a few others).

[Verain]

Rude Interruption is a glyph because it was a talent back in Cata/Wrath(even TBC?). They turned nearly all talents from Cata to Glyphs/passives you get as you level up for MoP.

Funny, rogues didn't get that memo. I used to silence things with a kick, take less damage when stunned, strike back when I dodged, proc riposte when I parry, have parry talents which could easily be a glyph, etc.

Glyph of Feint is technically a DPS increase, as you'd have to refresh it less often if we ever got a boss like Ra-Den with insane AoE damage again.

I use this glyph in all specs and all content. It's really a great glyph. It's not a dps increase if you don't plan to feint, or only feint for big damage bursts, but there's plenty of kills where the healers are oom and such, and why not press that button?

The game is better off without any mandatory glyphs for DPS or Talents that are significantly better than other choices(Hello Anticipation!, Rogues overall have the most fcked up Talent tree)

Marked for Death is better than anticipation in most content in this game. Anticipation isn't mandatory anywhere, though it does edge MfD for sustained damage as mutilate, which is I think the only time it's actually optimal.