Vote to kick system not fair?

[Elpalmo]

Ok.. this is what happend... i que for a random heroic.. Wich took about 20min to pop... i get in there.. the healer was in about 3 blues on.. rest a green.. idk how he got to que.. and ooms straight away.. and couldnt keep us alive... sooo.. we kicked him.. then.. we got a healer that is in about 4 blues.. rest greens.. and all he did is type "f u guys u suck" etc.. doesnt heal.. he zones out while we are wanting to get on with our random heroic.. and he just begins to be a dick in chat.. we cant even kick him because we kicked the other healer... and we didnt even do anything wrong..

Is any1 else having this problem?

[Tinkerspell]

oO I am a healer and I admit I farmed regular gear and JP for 346 gear before I started heroics [because of all of the horror stories] and I have came across the most di*kish tanks, I swear. I've never been kicked, but I have left. At the start, I would oom almost every trash pack [that's pretty normal for a mediocre geared healer and usually terribly geared/inexperienced tanks who prefer NOT to use CC] and the tanks were asking me why I had to drink so much.

So, before you blame the healer, in what you say were all greens except 3 pieces [I find this hard to believe, tbh] did you use CC, if it was available? Did the tank [if this was you] pop CDs to help the healer? Did the DPS keep out of bad stuff, and use their CDs to keep themselves alive? [This isn't Wrath anymore and most classes have self healing utilities to keep themselves alive] It is no longer just on the healer's shoulders to keep everyone alive, you also have to be intelligent and use your own capabilities to assure you live.

Healers have a difficult job in heroics and 9 times out 10 the reason DPS and/or tanks die, is their own fault. If a tank sees himself dipping, he should use his personal CDs. If the DPS are dying, they need to remove themselves from whatever is killing them [whether it be avoidable melee AOE dmg (step out and heal up!) or trash packs that deal dmg to the group, etc. you can remove yourself from those situations to stay alive, even if it annoys you]

GL.

[Deleted]

Of course it's unfair, it's completely broken in fact, just because Blizzard doesn't trust their players to use something without massive limitations. Obviously, the only fair and working system would be a complete removal of limits on the kick, since that would be democratic, 3 people voting to kick someone should be able to since they are the majority.

Unfortunately, bad players can't stand being kicked, so kicks has to be limited ad absurdum.

[Kuja]

Had that problem maaany times. The tool is flawed big time :/ And that's not the only thing that makes a group disband due to not being able to kick!

[Ogretron]

Of course it's unfair, it's completely broken in fact, just because Blizzard doesn't trust their players to use something without massive limitations. Obviously, the only fair and working system would be a complete removal of limits on the kick, since that would be democratic, 3 people voting to kick someone should be able to since they are the majority.

Unfortunately, bad players can't stand being kicked, so kicks has to be limited ad absurdum.

At least it is better than what it was before. Having majority to kick someone was the stupidest thing Blizzard could have done with the kick system. If there were three people that queued up together they could pretty much bully you around. Same other way, if there were three together you couldn't kick one that was bad since you could never get the majority.

I remember this guild on Mal'ganis that I had the unfortunate experience to group with twice. The first time I was the healer and was kicked because I healed the other DPS when they told me not to. No reason for me to not heal him, he wasn't doing anything wrong. Second time the three people in the guild had that annoying add-on that did /y or /p for every single attack and heal done. The other DPS kept complaining about it and threatening to kick them even after I mentioned he cant. I got kicked seconds after he tried to do them, which I don't know why they didn't start with him first since I was backing them up (I knew what they were about to do anyway). I have since put everyone I see in that guild on ignore every time I logged on with every character I had.

[Brince]

Kick system is broken, I'd rather be kicked by some scrubs that abuse the system than be forced to wait 10 mins without being able to kick the idiot healer/dps/tank.
I've seen too many idiots acting like dicks because they were un-kickable. The best way is to remove all limits but the combat/you're rolling a loot one.

[Shawaam]

The entire system sucks. It's just not working at all. Even leaving a group isn't working good. Yesterday I left a group because the group insulted me, and because I left I got the debuff. How is that fair at all?

[Theholypally]

Heres a new, amazing concept.

Make your own group.

[Ogretron]

The entire system sucks. It's just not working at all. Even leaving a group isn't working good. Yesterday I left a group because the group insulted me, and because I left I got the debuff. How is that fair at all?

One thing that was annoying at the start of Cata, I don't know if it still does it now, is that you could get the debuff even after beating the instance. Several times on my Ally Rogue I would get the debuff that way, I even got into an instance once but during the loading screen I got kicked out of it and the debuff popped up.

[Tobyyyy]

Shawaam just stop being a baddie? And as holypally say, if you think the system is so bad make you own group in stormwind

[Zedikuss-Veknilash]

I'm a healer with a few epics and the rest 346 and was kicked for asking the tank to do an achieve in Deadmines. I asked if we could do the foe reaper one, so tank down below so I can heal the reaper (not sure if thats the rigth way to do it but it seemed logical ). He said "No, I don't want to and I'm the tank" and when I asked why he said "you, I don't like you. You're getting kicked now, goodbye" and then I WAS kicked..!!

So yea it goes both ways->sometimes people get kicked for no reason, other times ppl can't get kicked for legit reasons! Theres not really anything blizz can do as far as the LFG tool goes.

[Crush]

They should probably have dps gear or something in there bags, I couldn't Que my healer for heroics with 4 blues + greens

[Deleted]

At least it is better than what it was before. Having majority to kick someone was the stupidest thing Blizzard could have done with the kick system. If there were three people that queued up together they could pretty much bully you around. Same other way, if there were three together you couldn't kick one that was bad since you could never get the majority.

I remember this guild on Mal'ganis that I had the unfortunate experience to group with twice. The first time I was the healer and was kicked because I healed the other DPS when they told me not to. No reason for me to not heal him, he wasn't doing anything wrong. Second time the three people in the guild had that annoying add-on that did /y or /p for every single attack and heal done. The other DPS kept complaining about it and threatening to kick them even after I mentioned he cant. I got kicked seconds after he tried to do them, which I don't know why they didn't start with him first since I was backing them up (I knew what they were about to do anyway). I have since put everyone I see in that guild on ignore every time I logged on with every character I had.

You seem to think that the majority being able to bully the minority around is unfair. This is incorrect, it's fair because they are the majority. That's why the system works. Forcing a majority who dislike you to play with you is the worst thing Blizzard did, the previous system was way better. If you want to be the one bullying, or completely impossible to bully, go with 2 friends. As the system is now, it doesn't really matter. Even if you're 4 people, get a second idiot after the first and you might just as well disband the group and start over. If you get two retards, you're screwed since you can't kick either of them.

So stupid.

---------- Post added 2011-03-22 at 11:37 AM ----------

I'm a healer with a few epics and the rest 346 and was kicked for asking the tank to do an achieve in Deadmines. I asked if we could do the foe reaper one, so tank down below so I can heal the reaper (not sure if thats the rigth way to do it but it seemed logical ). He said "No, I don't want to and I'm the tank" and when I asked why he said "you, I don't like you. You're getting kicked now, goodbye" and then I WAS kicked..!!

So yea it goes both ways->sometimes people get kicked for no reason, other times ppl can't get kicked for legit reasons! Theres not really anything blizz can do as far as the LFG tool goes.

Lol, that's definitely not how you do it. Healing the prototype won't help at all, the prototype isn't allowed to TAKE any damage. The way to do it is to not use the prototype while clearing before the boss, then having a good person play the prototype and only fighting the fire elementals (who can't harm the prototype).

[Deleted]

The system is fair, the people who use it often aren't, that can't be fixed, no matter how heavy the penatilies are for kicking players.

How is it fair that the rest of the players, beyond those who would kick innocents, get to be stuck with worthless players? Really. Inform me as to how any form of collective punishment, no mater the magnitude or how it is executed, is theoretically able to be fair.

Besides, it's not executed well.

May I point out that I've recently dinged and started gearing a tank character. Sometimes, I PuG or semi-PuG (as I never ever do on my DPS main). However, I can never kick bad players, because I always have a solid 2 hour cooldown on my votekick initiation due to the karma system being account-bound rather than character-bound.

I've initiated something like three or four votekicks since 4.0 when playing on my main. No more. The reason why I know this is due to:
A) I never PuG and rarely ever get more than one random player.
B) Some of my favorite guildies do not care for their karma quite as much as I do, so they never had a problem being the one to initiate the votekick if we had to kick someone.

[Ieft]

Kick system is broken, I'd rather be kicked by some scrubs that abuse the system than be forced to wait 10 mins without being able to kick the idiot healer/dps/tank.
I've seen too many idiots acting like dicks because they were un-kickable. The best way is to remove all limits but the combat/you're rolling a loot one.

Remove kick timer imo and make it everyone has to click yes to vote not just majority. If 4 people agree 1 person should be removed, they totally should.

To op, didn't they fix it when people can zone out you can kick them within like 2mins regardless of what has happened prior?

To Aciaedius I have a 2hour kick timer... at the end of a dungeon. Don't even get the point of a 2 hour kick timer.

[twelvedogs]

it's as fair as it can be, you can move it towards making it easier to be a mean kicker or easier to be a douche and not be able to be kicked but it's almost in the right spot i'd say. of course this means that there are still going to be situations where you can't kick a douche as well as those where a normal person gets booted for no reason.

[Kawaii]

I've suffered on my alts in low-level instances. Paladin tanks without Righteous Fury. Warriors with 2handers. Death Knights in wrong presence..

and when you try to kick them? "That player cannot be kicked for another 4 hours."

[Jaeda]

I have mixed feelings on this. Personally for me I think that the system is ridiculously broken. I don't kick often. I won't kick some guy just because he's being an ass. I will generally only kick someone if they're wiping us over and over and over again. I even try and be helpful before initiating/agreeing to a kick. I am typically NICE to the people I pug with because I pug a lot. My friends/guildies aren't always on to run with me. So I suck it up and deal with bad-ish players as long as the heroic is still rolling at a decent pace I don't care how the other guys are getting their job done. So I feel its terribly broken if I kick a bad player that was just wiping us constantly and get another that's doing the same thing and I can't kick them.

On the flip side, however, I have friends who kick constantly. They will try and kick someone simply because in the five minutes they have known them they don't like them. They also tend to have 2 hour timers and can't kick people now, though. So heroics can go smoother until they threaten to stop doing their role in the dungeon which brings it to a screaming halt.

I think the system needs a bit of an overhaul. Its a fitting system for people who abuse it but it does put people who use it as intended in a bad position at times. Luckily I don't typically get stuck with two baddies in a row and if I do I'll just leave and save myself the headache even though I've put time in on the instance.

[Durandro]

It is really bad. I can't actually kick anyone, and haven't been able to for months. Doesn't matter if its someone AFK'ing inside the instance for 15 minutes, a complete idiot tank, rude people, terrible gear... Just can't kick them. I just have to grit my teeth and deal with it.

And yeah, I prefer guild groups. But sometimes they are busy or just not online at that time.

And trade premade groups? Ha. A joke. Had someone demanding 350+ average ilevels for his premade. I checked him out, he had crafted pvp blues, a handful of 333 blues and the rest green. Good job on trying to be carried, eh?

[shokter]

Why the pressing need to kick people anyway? I have used the LFD extensively in cata...both as tank and dps...and can count the number of times I've either initiated or agreed to a vote kick on one hand. Yes I have seen some bad players...but for the most part they can be overcome if the other players perform well and/or if you talk to them to help them correct what they are doing wrong. I guess for some of you it's easier to vote kick than to give advice, but I think working with others to overcome challenges is what the game is about.