Man Kills Two Teens Robbers

[Rukentuts]

Even if they are robbing you, once the imminent threat of bodily harm or death is neutralized you are no longer allowed to use deadly force under MN law. His "finishing shots" to the heads were murder.

The students, however were in no way "role models" they were burglars.

[maxalyss]

he also had his home broken into 8 times in the past year. whos to say it wasnt these dumb kids? also maybe he thought it was the same people and wanted a little payback?

if theres one thing dumb kids should learn is you dont mess with old peoples shit because there old and dont care anymore

LOL. Of course it was these same kids. This guy lives in Minnesota, all there is is tumbleweeds and farms where he lives. He did what he had to do, the only thing I would have done differently was I would have made sure it was a kill shot and not a "FINISH HIM" Mortal combat move.

[Moadar]

Dealing with insurance is a lot easier than dealing with a funeral director? Besides, are you saying the legal system is inept at preventing crime? The kids would have obviously never been caught, so it was justified that he took the law into his own hands and killed them. I mean they were already 17 and 18, it's not like it is possible to rehabilitate a person at THAT age.

Insurance doesn't make it all better. Some items cannot be replaced. The legal system cannot save and protect everyone 100% of the time, and ultimately you are responsible for your life.

[rowaasr13]

"They were KIDS!" At 17 and 18. Yeah, fucking, right. They were angelic infants!
Well, the shooter seems to some kind of crazy with his guns and he deserves punishment for going way out of necessary measures, but those young retards who seems to think that life revolves around them with their "popularity" and all, don't have excuse either.

[Deleted]

I suppose he did what was in his full rights, if it is true that they broke in. If you break in and he killed them for trespassing, well, he's exercised those constitutional rights that americans talk so much about and that they say that guns are for. Nothing to see here!

[Doctor Amadeus]

First off, stop saying KIDS. At their age they are adults and would have been charged as such.
Second, it's all fine and dandy in your pleasant scenario, as the robbers hold hands and skip through his house. But let's look at another, not so cozy, real life example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshir...vasion_murders

How much do you want to bet that father wished he was armed and could have killed the two who invaded his home??

I think you need to keep in mind some people responding either have kids of their own or are still kind of young.


Hell I know some folks in their 60+ call anybody under 30 kid.

[Alkin]

And I never said they did , I merely said that they have access to them if needed since they have chosen to operate outside of the law. What would have happened if he would have cracked them with said bat .. do we ban those next ? .. stabbed with a knife .. those gone ? spoons .. a rusty spoon is deadly if you know what your doing ^_^.

It's a matter of the lethality of a firearm, and the fact that most of the objects you listed have alternative, househould application.

[Valenhil]

So glad I'm not in the US... Soooo glad I'm not in the US.
You can see the old man's proud of killing 2 people on the flimsiest justification. Defending his home shouldn't have been mentioned not even once on this thread because that's not what he did.

[Alkin]

Insurance doesn't make it all better. Some items cannot be replaced. The legal system cannot save and protect everyone 100% of the time, and ultimately you are responsible for your life.

And, according to your logic, responsible of deciding whether intruders are allowed theirs.

[Terridon]

One of the things i don't actually enjoy is arguing in the defense of what he did, because the actual act in and of itself, i do find more than a little disturbing, but the problem is the other direction you can go, where people law abiding citizens who own a home value their lives, are put on trial and required to explain themselves for defending their lives and being putting put in prison for doing something most would do, and maybe not the way we might like to imagine.

Let me tell you a story about a danish guy that doesn't involve any dying.
This elder guy got very unpopular drawing the prophet muhammed with a bomb in his turban some years back. A lot of people that is just like some in here, took great offence and want him dead for it, so the police protected him for a while. That cost money, so after a while they stopped with fulltime manning his house, but gave him an emergency-button he could press if need should ever arise.
They also made a protected room in his house.
So one day some somalian guy with a freaking axe (no kidding) comes in and try to kill him. What does he do? Drag out the arsenal of weapons he could have gottn in the years of waiting for this? No. This guy runs to the safetyroom, and press the button that calls the police.
Very anticlimatic, i know.

Being scared of course, but he's safe in that room, and the police get this clumsy would-be-murderer, and both are still alive today(one is in jail obviously).

My point is you can be safe from harm without killing people. You could even make your bedroom such a room, so you could sleep through all these theives that always want to kill you.
Yes you might lose money, but if your insureanced you get that back. If police is fast enough they might even catch them.
Get some heavey securityalarms, bars for the windows and some good entrance doors if you don't just jump up and down for the experience to kill a friend when she enters some night to check up on you.

My parents got robbed 1½ year back or so. Those theives had been very very persistent, spending almost an hour trying to get in with tools. My parents wasn't home so they finally managed to get in and stole a computer to around 50 euros value for them at best. If they've been home they could just have turned on the light to make them rum. Or called the police and seen a movie while they tried to get in.

Get a security-room if you think people is going to myrder you. Otherwise live like the rest of the world.

[smelltheglove]

Since he is allowed to use Deadly Force, which suggest he is allowed to kill them I don't see what can be over the top. Killing them is killing them which is allowed, shouldn't matter what he does beyond that point. Though I agree its unfortunate that they died. That doesn't mean the homeowner should be charged with second-degree murder. Think of it like this, you get less pay in your paycheck if you work harder. That is the same thing that happen to him, he got charged because he went over the top (with the top being the teens being dead already). Atleast that is what it sounds to me.

allowing deadly force isnt a blanket "allowing them to kill", it's more that you can use force that has the potential to kill, ie a gun or other weapon mainly, and if that person happens to die during the process of stopping them it's ok. it doesnt mean that you can subdue them and then go back and kill them because you want to

[Moadar]

And, according to your logic, responsible of deciding whether intruders are allowed theirs.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe they just shouldn't "intrude" ?

[Gavril]

It's a matter of the lethality of a firearm, and the fact that most of the objects you listed have alternative, househould application.

Yes I was using hyperbole , the point was guns don't kill people , people kill people. There are quite a few other uses for firearms other then killing people so outlawing makes as much sense as outlawing any of the household objects.

[Alkin]

First off, stop saying KIDS. At their age they are adults and would have been charged as such.
Second, it's all fine and dandy in your pleasant scenario, as the robbers hold hands and skip through his house. But let's look at another, not so cozy, real life example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshir...vasion_murders

How much do you want to bet that father wished he was armed and could have killed the two who invaded his home??

I say kids because i recognize the fact that that young people do stupid things, which is true. And what they did was stupid. I don't however think they deserved to be executed because of that. And like i said, im not promoting home invaders or criminals in general. I think that peaceful crime prevention should be a priority instead of arming a population so that its people kill each other.

[Wildtree]

That would be a very clever lawyer. He did several things that shows that he wasn't doing it in affect.

If somebody ever break into his house again they will be armed i guess.

I think so too, but I can also see the possibility of a lawyer making a case based on the grounds of emotionally and mentally disturbed.
How I could see it be done? Using his actions to his defense.
No sane person would so what he did.. Sitting there, waiting for his then victims approach him. It's inhumane what he did.
1. murder:
He shoots the guy. Guy falls down the stairs. Then he shoots him in the face. What sane person shoots someone in the face? The sheer thought of that creeps every sane person out. I am sure anyone who served in the military and seen bodies of shot people can confirm that this is a very nasty picture. it's not nearly as harmless as movies and tv shows make it look..

2. murder:
What he did to that girl is psychopathic behavior. The description of her death, from the first shot on, is subject to a splatter horror movie.

And then his confession. Freely telling the whole story...... I don't know..
On e can argue he's out of his mind putting all that guilt on himself.

You know what I mean now?

[Alkin]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe they just shouldn't "intrude" ?

I totally agree that they shouldn't have intruded, but how do we make sure that happens? Hmm, well, like i said before crime prevention>retribution.

[Moadar]

Get a security-room if you think people is going to myrder you. Otherwise live like the rest of the world.

What part of the rest of the world? The largest mass murder of people with guns didn't even occur in the US.

[Alkin]

Yes I was using hyperbole , the point was guns don't kill people , people kill people. There are quite a few other uses for firearms other then killing people so outlawing makes as much sense as outlawing any of the household objects.

No, because a gun can kill someone in an instant, if you want to kill someone with a spoon, it will take considerably more effort. Or for that matter a knife, which is a little more realistic. You have to run into range of the intruder, giving them time to escape and entirely avoid violent conflict.

[maxalyss]

Let me tell you a story about a danish guy that doesn't involve any dying.
This elder guy got very unpopular drawing the prophet muhammed with a bomb in his turban some years back. A lot of people that is just like some in here, took great offence and want him dead for it, so the police protected him for a while. That cost money, so after a while they stopped with fulltime manning his house, but gave him an emergency-button he could press if need should ever arise.
They also made a protected room in his house.
So one day some somalian guy with a freaking axe (no kidding) comes in and try to kill him. What does he do? Drag out the arsenal of weapons he could have gottn in the years of waiting for this? No. This guy runs to the safetyroom, and press the button that calls the police.
Very anticlimatic, i know.

Being scared of course, but he's safe in that room, and the police get this clumsy would-be-murderer, and both are still alive today(one is in jail obviously).

My point is you can be safe from harm without killing people. You could even make your bedroom such a room, so you could sleep through all these theives that always want to kill you.
Yes you might lose money, but if your insureanced you get that back. If police is fast enough they might even catch them.
Get some heavey securityalarms, bars for the windows and some good entrance doors if you don't just jump up and down for the experience to kill a friend when she enters some night to check up on you.

My parents got robbed 1½ year back or so. Those theives had been very very persistent, spending almost an hour trying to get in with tools. My parents wasn't home so they finally managed to get in and stole a computer to around 50 euros value for them at best. If they've been home they could just have turned on the light to make them rum. Or called the police and seen a movie while they tried to get in.

Get a security-room if you think people is going to myrder you. Otherwise live like the rest of the world.

Sounds great in some foreign imaginary world, but most of us americans, including myself have enough trouble just paying for the regular bedrooms we have, let alone a security room, lol that was nuts dude but funny as hell.

[Alkin]

What part of the rest of the world? The largest mass murder of people with guns didn't even occur in the US.

Pretty irrelevant really.