RNG chance for more Eler Charms

[Sevyvia]

So, as the title says, according to the front page, we'll get a RNG chance from a daily quest reward box to get extra Elder Charms.

Personally, I've disliked the fact that I need to do dailies for Elder Charms ever since it was implemented, but at least I got to pick which ones I wanted to do to reach the 90 Lesser Charms per week. The 5.2 extra chance for Elder Charms seems to only come from 1 source: Sunreaver/Kirin Tor dailies. I think that is a terrible idea. Can anybody give a decent argument for why a RNG chance to get an item that gives you a RNG chance to get extra loot is a good idea?

You have to do the dailies for Black Prince rep anyway, to get the legendary metagem. A random chance for an extra charm is icing on the cake in that case, not rats dredge forth from the bottom of satan's wine cellar.

[Maelstrom51]

In the end, no matter how much you insist otherwise, having charms isn't mandatory at all.

Gems and enchants aren't required, either. Heck, if you want you can even play without choosing a talent specialization!

Now suck it up, change your playstyle or wait until they decide to change the system.

Or, I'll voice my feedback and try and get this shitty system changed.

---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 11:55 AM ----------

You have to do the dailies for Black Prince rep anyway, to get the legendary metagem. A random chance for an extra charm is icing on the cake in that case, not rats dredge forth from the bottom of satan's wine cellar.

You don't need to do dailies for rep. There will likely be good grinding places. I know I was able to AoE grind honored -> revered on my DK in less than an hour.

[Tradu]

You have to do the dailies for Black Prince rep anyway, to get the legendary metagem. A random chance for an extra charm is icing on the cake in that case, not rats dredge forth from the bottom of satan's wine cellar.

I don't need to do dailies to get my legendary quest done. I need to grind mobs and the other people on my server who want the daily quest reputation are going to get the Lightning Forge unlocked(because its faction wide, and I'm on a huge server, so I don't need to do the dailies myself) If the Lightning Forge isn't unlocked way before I get my legendary raid drop collection quest done, I'll be very surprised.

[tussee]

Then when you wipe on a boss you have that thought in the back of your mind, "what if we had a bit more gear from charms?" All around, gimping yourself does not feel good.

Would you want to join a raid that nobody used gems and enchants in?

Not knowing your guildmates nor you I think I can safely say that none of you have 100% correct on theese factors:

- Right Gems (propably 100%)
- Right Enchants (Someone is missing the best Weapon or Bracer enchant)
- Right Reforges. (Someone is not hit/exp capped, maybe someone reforged Crit where Mastery or haste might be better)
- Right Spec (Someone is playing a spec they like instead of the spec that does the most for the raid)
- Right Glyphs (Someone is not using a glyph that gives an advantage on the boss you are wiping on)
- Right Talents (Someone is using a useless talent where another talent could be used for that fight)
- Using right abilities at the exact right times. (...)

When you can write 100% to these, then you can blame the lack of coins for underachieving.

I like playing my survival hunter, well knowing that I can put out higher numbers as BM.
When I swap to BM I have my gear optimized for Survival. I could help the raid by porting to a capital to regem and do different reforges. But I don't

[Dalinos]

What I don't understand is the following complaint:

"We want Lesser Charms to be rewarded from other sources than dailies".

Do you ask for Conquest points to be rewarded from non-PVP activities?
Do you ask for Valour points to be rewarded from non-PVE activities?
Do you ask for mini-pet EXP to be rewarded from non-pet battle activities?
Do you ask for Tradeskill points to be rewarded from non-trade-skill-inducing activities?

By the same token, why on EARTH are people asking for Lesser Charms (or Greater Charms, for that matter) to be rewarded from non-Daily activities? Blizzard decided that they wanted to make dailies a more prominent feature of the game, by increasing the rewards from Reputation and Gold to Reputation, Gold, Valour AND Lesser Charms. It is THEIR prerogative. Lesser Charms are a reward for doing DAILIES, the same way Conquest points are the reward of Rated PVP, the same way Valour is the reward for PVE, the same way mini-pet EXP and mini-pet levels are the rewards of Pet Battles!

If you don't enjoy dailies, simply DO NOT DO THEM. Personally, I love faction grinding, and although I'll agree that the daily design is not the best available, it gates content enough to keep it interesting. I was -ecstatic- when I reached Exalted with the Klaxxi, finding out they are related to the Ahn'Quiraj Silithid! I even thought their explanation of the Swarm to be an amazing twist of the branch of Philosophy that we call "Ethics" - sacrificing the weak for the evolution of the strong.

MoP is an expansion which focuses on what an RPG is supposed to focus on - the STORY. The fact I'm rewarded with a chance at extra raid gear for doing what I should be doing in an RPG (progressing the STORY, not my character, the STORY) is amazing.

Fun Fact - I have not missed a single Elder Charm of Good Fortune, I have used all 3 every week since release, and I have seen a grand total of -two- items from them. Trinket from Tsu-long, and then the same trinket again on LFR version. That's it. Am I complaining? No! Why? Cause they are a CHANCE for EXTRA, BONUS gear. Not guaranteed drops.

Bottom line - play an RPG for the reasons it's supposed to be played for, and don't complain because you're too bored or because you don't like to invest the time in the grind called "Dailies". Again, emphasis on the point that Charms are a reward from DAILIES, the same way VP is the reward for PVE and CP is the reward for PVP.

Oh, and armory-link for people who always want credentials of the people that try to make a point:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Dalinos/simple

[Maelstrom51]

When you can write 100% to these, then you can blame the lack of coins for underachieving.

Except that its not a 'one or the other' scenario, its a cumulative effect.

[Kryos]

RNG on top of RNG was always and will always be a bad idea. They need to change that.

[Tradu]

Not knowing your guildmates nor you I think I can safely say that none of you have 100% correct on theese factors:

- Right Gems (propably 100%)
- Right Enchants (Someone is missing the best Weapon or Bracer enchant)
- Right Reforges. (Someone is not hit/exp capped, maybe someone reforged Crit where Mastery or haste might be better)
- Right Spec (Someone is playing a spec they like instead of the spec that does the most for the raid)
- Right Glyphs (Someone is not using a glyph that gives an advantage on the boss you are wiping on)
- Right Talents (Someone is using a useless talent where another talent could be used for that fight)
- Using right abilities at the exact right times. (...)

When you can write 100% to these, then you can blame the lack of coins for underachieving.

I like playing my survival hunter, well knowing that I can put out higher numbers as BM.
When I swap to BM I have my gear optimized for Survival. I could help the raid by porting to a capital to regem and do different reforges. But I don't

Even when not playing at 100%, loot from coins makes a difference. So "just play better and you won't need coins" is a silly argument.

[khalltusk]

I don't get the hate for this, its optional. You choose to make it mandatory as you want better gear faster. Nothing wrong with your mindset, but perhaps if it is such an issue you might want to check your enjoyment in the game as unless you get lots of support this will not change a thing.

For me its not an issue. I don't really bother with dailies much (I do enough to get 3 charms to roll on and so far ive had nothing from these rolls RNG is RNG) I do the war front dailies everyday as I want to progress the story line (for me thats more important than rep rewards)

Where else would they put these coin rewards? Heroics - Heroics already awards VP/JP and give you gear/gold as is adding another source for coins would lead to more burn out from doing too many heroics. This was an issue in cata where you used tabards to get rep for factions via dungeon runs. You could hit exalted in a few days on all the reputations. they could limit the amount of charms you get per day via heroics/dungeons. Its still not an ideal solution as it gives you a 1 stop shop for all your raiding needs in heroic only.

They could tie it into mini bosses or pet battles or challenge modes, but again this is not ideal, you would force people into say challange modes when most would not be good enough pet battles should be kept as a fun extra so its not a good idea to tie it into them.

So they have a few choices, you could remove the system but I quite like it. Or you can keep it as it is and rely on the players to make up their own minds and use restraint.

[Maelstrom51]

By the same token, why on EARTH are people asking for Lesser Charms (or Greater Charms, for that matter) to be rewarded from non-Daily activities?

Because its a currency mainly only useful for raiding. Going by your logic, why do you want raiding rewards for things other than raiding?

[Deleted]

What I don't understand is the following complaint:

"We want Lesser Charms to be rewarded from other sources than dailies".

Do you ask for Conquest points to be rewarded from non-PVP activities?
Do you ask for Valour points to be rewarded from non-PVE activities?
Do you ask for mini-pet EXP to be rewarded from non-pet battle activities?
Do you ask for Tradeskill points to be rewarded from non-trade-skill-inducing activities?

Sorry I stopped reading after this. I dont know if you said anything usefull after it.

But do you like getting extra loot in raids from non-raiding activities?

Oh snap... What did you say again?

[Tradu]

SNIP

I'll start with your bottom line. An RPG is about improving your characters power. In most games you do that by getting better gear. Elder Charms give you gear.

VP is rewarded for almost everything you do now, it isn't a "PvE only" currency. PvE is raiding/dungeons, even though technically it would fit everything in the game except PvP.
You have OPTIONS on how to get your Conquest/Honor points. You can do arenas/RBGs for CP and BGs/certain quests/world PvP for HP.
You can get tradeskill points from dailies and one of the (daily) Blingtron items.
You get battle pets from raids/dungeons/collectors editions/Blizzard Store.

[kushlol]

I don't understand why bosses don't drop a fixed amount of lesser charms...........WHO"S IN CHARGE OVER THERE MAKING THESE DECISIONS?!?!?!

[Maelstrom51]

Where else would they put these coin rewards? Heroics - Heroics already awards VP/JP and give you gear/gold as is adding another source for coins would lead to more burn out from doing too many heroics.

That would bring heroics to having the same number of rewards as dailies. If adding that to heroics would burn people out, aren't dailies CURRENTLY buring people out?

[tussee]

So if not dailies where would you want the coins from?

1st battleground win every day.
1st Arena win every day.
1st daily dungeon each day.
1st Challenge mode each day.
1st Brawlers Guild win every day.
1st Pet battle win every day.
etc.

How is THAT not grinding/chores compared to now?
I can see the replies to the PTR update that launches the above. "Great more "Mandatory" stuff.

Or should Blizzard just remove the coinsystem alltogether. "because if I can't be arsed t do it, noone should be able to do it"

[Maelstrom51]

So if not dailies where would you want the coins from?

1st battleground win every day.
1st Arena win every day.
1st daily dungeon each day.
1st Challenge mode each day.
1st Brawlers Guild win every day.
1st Pet battle win every day.
etc.

How is THAT not grinding/chores compared to now?
I can see the replies to the PTR update that launches the above. "Great more "Mandatory" stuff.

Or should Blizzard just remove the coinsystem alltogether. "because if I can't be arsed t do it, noone should be able to do it"

I would prefer a wide variety of activities that rewards lesser charms, with the weekly quest still being the only way to obtain elder charms. Problem solved.

[Tradu]

So if not dailies where would you want the coins from?

1st battleground win every day.
1st Arena win every day.
1st daily dungeon each day.
1st Challenge mode each day.
1st Brawlers Guild win every day.
1st Pet battle win every day.
etc.

How is THAT not grinding/chores compared to now?
I can see the replies to the PTR update that launches the above. "Great more "Mandatory" stuff.

Or should Blizzard just remove the coinsystem alltogether. "because if I can't be arsed t do it, noone should be able to do it"

Or how about not making it "1st X every day" but instead letting you get as many Lesser Charms from dungeons/scenarios/Brawler's Guild/pet battles/dailies/raid bosses/elite(champion) mobs in Pandaria per day as you want(obviously dailies are still once per day) and then just keep the 90 Lesser Charm turn-in per week as the only way to get Elder Charms?

[Orange Joe]

This is something I don't understand. You state that in order to stay "competitive", you need to have top-of-the-line gear. Is your guild that competitive that a piece of gear, here and there, will determine who gets sit and who doesn't? Perhaps I was with some different guilds with drastically different raiding philosophies, but I was never "not competitive" because I wasn't getting a drop. And I'm talking Sunwell here. But, again, I haven't played MoP, so perhaps I'm incorrect.

No you are 100% correct.

[Dalinos]

I'll start with your bottom line. An RPG is about improving your characters power. In most games you do that by getting better gear. Elder Charms give you gear.

VP is rewarded for almost everything you do now, it isn't a "PvE only" currency. PvE is raiding/dungeons, even though technically it would fit everything in the game except PvP.
You have OPTIONS on how to get your Conquest/Honor points. You can do arenas/RBGs for CP and BGs/certain quests/world PvP for HP.
You can get tradeskill points from dailies and one of the (daily) Blingtron items.
You get battle pets from raids/dungeons/collectors editions/Blizzard Store.

See, this is the difference in mindsets. You do NOT play an RPG to increase your characters power. You play an RPG to explore the world and the story behind it - making your character stronger is the path you need to take in order to fulfill that goal. I didn't play Final Fantasy 7 to get Cloud to do 9999 dmg per attack, I did it to find out what the hell was going on with Sephiroth, Genova and the rest of Gaia and Mako energy. The concept of getting stronger is only valid as a path - the path you need to take in order to fulfill the goal of any Role-Playing-Game - playing the Roles and finishing the Story.

And to answer DivineZero, if you want my personal opinion on this issue, I say remove them all together. I don't personally like this system of using a coin for extra loot, it kinda beats the magic of "Killing a boss and looting his corpse for all the riches he is guarding/carrying".

[khalltusk]

That would bring heroics to having the same number of rewards as dailies. If adding that to heroics would burn people out, aren't dailies CURRENTLY buring people out?

Not even close. If you had it bolted onto heroics you would have people doing them until their eyes would bleed. Look at how the tabard system worked (I liked it as i got the rep fast but I can see why it was removed in mop)

If they perhaps limited you to 15 charms per day from heroic via the LFD (so say 3 or 5 per run) system that might be an alternative. I can't see them doing it. I prefer the quest version purely because I can do it on my own in my own time and it advances the storyline (really enjoying the 5.1 dailies).