4th spec would solve all class problems.

[gunner_recall]

Mages: Blood Mage

The ever popular Blood Mage. Though Fire Mages have absorbed the majority of this spec's abilities, quite a few abilities like Phoenix are still floating out there in the nether sphere. The trick to implementing this spec is to make it different than Fire Mages. Given the lore behind Phoenixes and Blood, you could give this spec some sort of life control properties. Of course the problem with that could be a collision with Warlock concepts. Either way, its definitely doable, and would make any Blood Elf Mage pretty happy.

Verdict

Difficult to implement, but definitely possible. Main issue is making the spec distinct from Fire Mages.

I'm so tired of seeing blood mage thrown out for mage's fourth spec.

Blood mage is silly. It shouldn't be implemented. I'd rather see a battle mage spec, similar to what Rift did with it's harbinger.

[Sageofthe10paths]

Why do so many people feel like experts in WoW? I mean how do you know it will cause balancing issues? It will give players more specs to play, more things to do, more comps in pvp, plus give players something they have always wanted such as Demon Hunters or Wardens. Stop bashing other people's ideas, obviously the game is balanced and has been since they fixed DK's at the end of wrath. I believe the reason why DK's were broken in the first place because the dev's listen to the community TOO MUCH. This is a thread about people throwing out fun ideas, no need to bash people, or freak out...

[jahasafrat]

I disagree with OP, a 4th spec would only overcomplicate the game and cause more class balance issues.

[Teriz]

I'm so tired of seeing blood mage thrown out for mage's fourth spec.

Blood mage is silly. It shouldn't be implemented. I'd rather see a battle mage spec, similar to what Rift did with it's harbinger.

I'd personally rather see a Mage spec that uses time magic to heal and support allies.

But this thread is about 4th specs based on WoW heroes.

[Mawnix]

Literrally voted yes just so I can have my ranged DK.

[Jackielope]

I think 4th specs for all could solve some problems, but it certainly wouldn't solve all of them and in fact might cause a few more. Coming up with interesting abilities for each class and spec, and balancing them, is getting harder for Blizz as the game expands.

Do note that WoW is probably set for a 12th class though. Cloth-wearers have 3 classes, leather-wearers have 3, mail-wearers only have 2, and plate-wearers have 3. What that class might be and what its "kit" is is anyone's guess.

If anyone is interested in looking up the WC3 heroes, http://classic.battle.net/war3/ is still up and running and has all the stuff on the races and units and such.

[Haven]

Sorry, but I'd prefer trimming to expanding for the sole sake of expanding.

[Teriz]

I think 4th specs for all could solve some problems, but it certainly wouldn't solve all of them and in fact might cause a few more. Coming up with interesting abilities for each class and spec, and balancing them, is getting harder for Blizz as the game expands.

Do note that WoW is probably set for a 12th class though. Cloth-wearers have 3 classes, leather-wearers have 3, mail-wearers only have 2, and plate-wearers have 3. What that class might be and what its "kit" is is anyone's guess.

If anyone is interested in looking up the WC3 heroes, http://classic.battle.net/war3/ is still up and running and has all the stuff on the races and units and such.

Yeah, my money is on the 12th class being the Tinker class. They could wear mail armor, their archetype is very broad, and they could easily be a hybrid class.

I do believe that we may see a 4th spec because MoP already introduced a race and a class. 4th spec and new character models in addition to expanded lore for each race already in the game could replace the need to add a new class and race for the next expansion. Also Druids proved that 4th specs are doable in the current WoW system, and a few classes in the game have skeletons of additional specs already within them.

This allows Blizzard to expand on the races and classes already in the game.

[Deleted]

I would like them to do this (diversity is fun!).

But it would for sure cause way more problems than it would solve

I think I would prefer to see another new class instead 10 more specs.

[Teriz]

I was going to make a new thread for this, but made this one instead. Here's some other ideas for 4th specs that I had swimming around my head;

Death Knights

Rune: Death Knights empower their runes (Blood, Unholy, and Frost) to such a point that it enhances both their Runes, and the spells associated with those Runes. In addition, the Death Knight receives new Rune-based abilities.

:::Sample Abilities:::

+Empower Rune:: Empowers your Frost, Unholy, or Blood Runes, granting new effects for selected abilities, and some new abilities. Only one type of Rune can be empowered at a given time.

+Shield of Runes :Covers the caster in magic runes, absorbing up to X damage. If X damage is absorbed, this damage in converted into a powerful burst of energy, increasing the caster's damage by X% for 15 sec.

+Rune of Power :40 yard Range, Summons a Rune of Power under a random friendly target. This rune increases damage by X% of all friendly and enemy targets within 5 yards. Lasts 1 min. Only one Rune of Power can be summoned at a time per DK.

+Rune of Death:40 yard range, Summons a Rune of Death at a random enemy target's location. This rune deals X Shadow damage every half-second to anyone within X yards of that location.

+Runic Presence: Increases the range of your empowered abilities by 5 yards. Increases spell power and attack power by X%. Increases your maximum amount of Runic power by 20.

Justification: Rune is a much more sensible option than Necrmancy. Not only does it make a lot more sense, it doesn't clash with other specs. Also this concept does allow a Death Knight to play like a Necromancer if they choose Empower Unholy Rune.

Druids

N/A

Justification: Druids already have a fourth spec.

Hunter

Ranger: A healing spec that allows Hunters to heal targets at ranger and use their pets to assist in the healing of injured allies. Rangers would still use Focus as a resource.

:::Sample Abilities:::

+Aspect of the Spirit Beast: Converts your damaging abilities into healing abilities. Arcane Shot, Serpent Sting, Steady Shot, Multi Shot, and your traps are all renamed and given healing abilities. Hunter's Mark now enhances the healing done to a target.

+ Guardian Spirit:You summon a spirit guardian that flies over the party, healing allies for x seconds.

+Improved Mending: Mend Pet's healing is enhanced, and it can now be cast on allied targets.

+Trailblazer: An aura that heals all allies as they move for a small amount.

Justification: Rangers have traditionally been rescuers and life savers, so the name makes sense. It would also be a nice WoW twist on the concept. In addition, Marksmanship can be the petless Hunter spec, and Survival or Beast Mastery could be made into melee specs if so desired.

Mage

Chrono: A healing spec that allows Mages to heal targets utilizing Time Magic.

:::Sample Abilities:::

+Temporal Shield: Envelops a target in a temporal shield for 6 sec. Damage taken while shielded will be healed back over 8 secs. Can be cast on multiple targets.

+Slow Time: Envelops a 10 yard area in a field of slower time. Enemy projectiles and enemies caught in the field are slowed. Any damage taken by an ally target is spread over time. Damage over Time is reduced and spread over a much longer period of time.

+Expansion: Extends the duration and intensity of beneficial healing over time abilities and shields. Does the same for DoT effects on enemies.

+Wormhole: Teleports a target to your location, healing them in the process.

+Temporal Reset: Instantly refreshes a target's cooldowns. If that is too powerful, it should only work on the Mage.

Justification: Mages already possess time abilities, and there really is no other DPS route available to them. A healing tree would also go a long way towards diversifying the class without losing their unique flavor.

Monk

Cloud Dancer: A Monk that specializes in long range energy attacks, while maintaining its melee prowess.

:::Sample Abilities:::

+Stance of the Red Crane: Increases your maximum amount of Chi by 1. Increases your movement speed by 10% Your ranged Chi-based attacks have a chance to refund Chi. etc.

Chi Blast: Blasts an enemy with chi, inflicting Nature damage.

Chi Form: Transcends the mortal realm, gaining new powers and abilities. (Super Saiyan mode?)

Invoke Chi-Ji, the Red Crane: Invokes the Red Crane Celestial, summoning an effigy at the command of the caster. While active, Chi-Ji will increase the mastery of all party and raid members by 20% for 45 sec. (cooldown)

Death Cocoon: (2 Chi. Channeled, 2 min cooldown) Encases the target in a harmful cocoon of Chi energy, dealing 5 damage every 1 sec and causing any healing recieved to be damage instead. While in the Cocoon, the target moves at 50% reduced speed and is unable to attack or cast spells.

Rolling Force Globe: (40 yd range, 1 Chi, 2 min cooldown) You summon a globe of Chi energy, dealing damage and healing all targets within its path within 40 yards. While it's traveling, you can discharge the Globe, dealing x damage/healing to all targets at its current location and reducing/increasing all targets movement speed by 70% for 3 sec, but cancelling the Sphere.

Justification: On Pandaria, there are 4 celestials, the Ox, Tiger, Serpent, and Crane. Playable Monks only utilize 3 of those celestials. There are Red Crane Monks in the Temple of the Crane, and Ranged DPS is the only role that Monks can't really do. Plus, it would fulfill a lot of Battle Mage desires for a lot of folks.

[b]Paladin[/u]

Templar: Ranged DPS spec utilizing Holy damage. Templars would use a variety of holy-based damage attacks. It would be the Shockadin that everyone has always wanted.

:::Sample Abilities:::

+Titan's Hammer: Throws a hammer of holy power towards a target, damaging up to 3 targets before returning to the Paladin.

+ Holy Bolt: Slams your hammer into the ground, causing a bolt of holy power to hit a target.

+ Holy Shield: Your shield absorbs a harmful spell, empowering the Paladin for a time.

Justification: Another use for INT plate, and this has been a requested spec for years. Do I really need to justify this?

Priest

Inquisitor: A priest who uses his holy and shadow powers to torture perceived enemies of the light.

:::Sample Abilities::::

None really come to mind. However, I would imagine that this spec would use mix of Holy and Shadow magic to do some nasty things to opponents. Holy to damage the body, Shadow to damage the mind.

Justification: Priests have 2 healing specs and 1 DPS spec. If 4th spec occurs, another DPS spec seems logical. Since Shadow is already covered, a mixture of Holy and Shadow seems like an interesting path to go. Also Inquisitors work with the lore of priests in WoW.

Rogue

Stalker: This one could go either way. Either a tank that utilizes shadow, evasion, or illusions, or a Bow/crossbow user that uses stealth, tricks and guile to defeat his opponents from afar. For this write up, I went with the later. Perhaps they could dual wield Crossbows and/or pistols? Arrows or Shots would be laced with poison.

:::Sample Abilities:::

+Sinister Shot: Fires an arrow at a target for increased damage. Awards 1 combo point. Replaces Sinister Strike.

+Hooked Arrow: Fires an arrow that lodges itself into a target's body. Dealing bleed damage based on combo points.

Justification: The game needs another bow class, and Rogues need a new playstyle since their current specs are very similar. Seems like the perfect match. A ranged spec would help with that situation without having to make the class a hybrid. If the class needs to be a hybrid, one of the melee specs, perhaps Combat could become a tanking spec.


Shaman

Guardian: Earth-based tank spec. Utilizes Shields (or 2H weapons) and Earth spells to protect allies.

:::Sample Abilities::::

+Rockbiter Weapon: Tanking imbue. Reduces damage, chance to get critically hit, and causes large amounts of threat.

+Imbue Shields: Frostbrand, Flametonge, and Rockbiter weapon can now be used on your shields, providing a range of defensive effects.

+Elemental Harmony: You can now cast more than one of your Earth, Wind, and Water totems at a time.

+Ascendance: Earth Ascendant that taunts opponents in the area, reduces damage, causes instant Earthquakes, and launches boulders at targets.

Justification: Earth, Wind, Fire, Water are the four elements that Shaman use, yet only Wind, Fire, and Water have specs attached to them. Also Shaman have a lot of tanking aspects, like Rockbiter Weapon, that have no real use in the current 3 spec set up.


Warlock

Demon Hunter/Apotheosis: Tanking spec, or Melee DPS spec. Either one works.

This is either going to be the glyph, or Blizzard is going to created a DH spec for Warlocks.

Justification: Warlocks have about half a spec locked into a glyph. Demon Hunters are popular, but may not be class worthy. A cloth tank could be a nice change of pace for the game.

Warrior

Blademaster: A warrior that uses speed and cunning to overwhelm foes with quick strikes of his blade.

+Wind Walk: Turn invisible and move about 20% faster. When you attack an opponent coming out of Wind Walk, the attack is a critical hit.

+Mirrored Images: The warrior makes 2 additional copies of itself, confusing targets.

+Blade Frenzy: As you strike your target, your attack speed gradually increases into you critically strike, resetting the process.

+Standard bearer: You pick up your war banner, placing it onto you back, and carry it into battle, making its effects mobile.


Thanks for reading!!

[Deleted]

I think, with the hybrid tax dead and gone and some hybrids doing better dps than pure-dps classes, a 4th spec should be used to hybridize current pure dps classes.
With 4 of 11 classes being able to fulfill only one rule, and even then only one version of that role, melee or ranged dps, none can do both (except maybe Hunters could be interpreted as being both, the bastards... ) and the other classes being able to fulfill, play, not-have-to-reroll-to-play-another, 2, 3 even 4 roles I think that's the biggest thing that has to change.

Hybrid class players can just switch to other gear and specs if they want to play another role, if it's one their class offers. Yeah, gear has to be farmed but they keep their reps, personal achievements, unique stuff they got over the years, currently legendary quest progression etc. Pure DPS class players have to reroll, give up their character and all the stuff entailed if they want to switch to another role.

I played a Mage for 7 years and besides the overall suckiness of the Mage right now imho (in various regards, not - only - necessarily DPS, just class identity, spec difference, gameplay, everything - personal opinion, please don't go into it, there have been enough discussion on this) I've long wanted the option to fulfill another role in the raid. Have a use for duplicate token, have a secondary gear to build up. I still am primarily a DPS player but I'd love to have the *option*. Don't even care abuot Heal or Tank, just *something* else.

[Deleted]

you should really stop with this 4-th spec nonsense, it's like adding another 10 classes (druids already have 4 specs), they will never do that.

[ttak82]

Another question is: will 4th specs be enough to interest newer/existing/returning players?

With the current gameplay mechanics / classes, fourth specs will have less meaning.

Currently class design is based on a few things viz,
Role (tank,healer,damage) (there is no CC role, officially)
Playstyle (abilities - core and personal, resource system, aspects/stances) - healers on have one resource model based on mana; chi and holy power are slight variations
Utility (CC, glyphs, group survival, mobility)

The damage model is physical (mitigated by armor) or magic (different schools)

If you really want to add more specs, that damage model really has to go (aka, warriors and armor system need to be revamped, and school specific resistance needs to be brought back in PvE), other wise you will just have more of the same - more specs = more homogenization = similar abilities but different names. You also need to change PvE mechanics and tuning, at least the current endgame model does not support it.

4th spec means 10 more sub classes which is a lot of work to balance or differentiate.

The game needs to change in terms of gear/stats and gameplay mechanics to make more classes/specs interesting; else it is just "more of the the same" (with extended story)

[The Stormbringer]

This doesn't seem to have any lists for the other classes. Come up with some for them too! ;P

[TyrantWave]

I just want lock tanking to hurry up and actually be implemented. As much as I enjoy my blood DK, running around in Dark Apo is just ridiculously fun..

[Stir]

That is purely your opinion. Not a fact. You may consider write it stating so, and not make it appear as fact. Also taking for granted that you, or your hypothetical designer ( I still have not understood whether you are an employed game designer, or studying to be, or just guessing here), is the only one that can make the game work nicely. Or that a director wouldn't know a good designer. Or care if his new designer actually cared about the game. Etc. Lots of assumptions there.

As for your concerns about content lacking in other areas: that has already been proven to have been Blizzard's fault all along. They either underestimated their capabilities, or just didn't want to spend additional money on the developing team. So they had, until recently, a team that was too short-staffed to handle a sub-based mmorpg. That is why the end-patches of Wrath and Cataclysm happened. They were just to cheap or short-sighted to employ more people to work on the game. Emergencies, out-of-plan difficulties, etc, should be planned for in advance in gaming development, always. Blizzard in this case decided not to, and that was the result. Hopefully it won't happen again, since they said they increased their staff working on the game now.

And all that because according to you, fun and excitement in a videogame, should take the backseat to number-crunching. Funnily enough, I never considered playing a game because of its impressive numbers, but only to have fun and do something exciting. Balance, within some accepted parameters of deviation, has been a secondary concern. And don't get fooled by gaming forums where a small percentage of players hang out as well, talking about numbers day and night. Most players of WoW couldn't care less if fire mages are 6% above all other casters in damage output and not the accepted 5%. They just want to play something fun. And additional specs would be fun. Even you don't seem to disagree with the idea's potential in that matter. And only what it would mean work-wise is your concern. Well, great things happen to those that take great risks. If you just play it safe you are only going to ever be decent, perhaps good, and that's about it. It may make you happy. Personal choice after all. But I want the game that I play to be something more than just good.

I wanted to reply to this first and foremost.
Your first point, that my hypothetical game designer is, according to me, the only one who can make the game work nicely, isn't exactly true to my objections. You see, someone else could possibly do it... Someone else could possibly do it bétter. But you're making the assumption that the director knows who this person is, and what should happen, mechanically, to make the game better. And the director simply knows jack-shit about that. A director knows about as much about game design as I know about the unity engine. Which is precious little.

Now for your statement that Blizzard was already lacking in content: Yes, you could say that, but that is as much opinion as anything else. Blizzard agreed with your opinion, and increased their team. Good. Great, even. But don't think Blizzard was cheap or short-sighted in their having a smaller team. Smaller teams are easier to manage, they deliver higher quality stuff, and you don't have to teach them about a new system, both in programming, game system mechanics, style modelling, animation and other things specific to Blizzard's WoW Toolbox. Having a smaller team also means you'll spend more time on churning out new content, but Blizzard might have thought that to be acceptable. Turned out the players disagreed so heavily that they had to increase their team.

According to me, fun and excitement shouldn't take a back-seat... But fun and excitement should be taken in with the game mechanics as they stand, and game mechanics are at the very least equally important. If your system malfunctions, bugs out, shows massive disparity between classes and specs, and has abilities that are impossible to line up properly due to the system demanding something that the animations cannot deliver, for instance, you're having one crappy game. But you don't seem to realize any of that. Your example of 6% (which is a huge and noticeable number, but let's say you're right about nobody really caring) doesn't take the actual problems in effect. You're looking only at result balancing. But there's much more to it than that.

The point was that it was a new mastery. Whether or not its a good mastery is pretty irrelevant.

Coding was easy. Mechanical implementation was easy. There was precious little that had to be done about it.

Opinion, and irrelevant. The point is that new glyphs had to be designed for only the guardian spec.

And my argument was that there was hardly any need for design, there.

This is also irrelevant, since my point was that a lot more was added to the Guardian and Feral specs beyond simply splitting up the tree. Blizzard had to rebuild both specs to allow them to function on their own, even though both were fairly close to that before. They also had to design the newly changed specs to work with the new talent system and the new direction of the Druid class.

You're wrong, because most of that was already built into the forms. I'm not saying that they didn't need to design a new synergy with many talents, but they had a very firm foundation to work from, and it pretty much came down to changing bear/cat to feral/guardian. Sure it was a lot of work. But nothing compared to what you're suggesting.

I wasn't asking the question as if there was a problem with Shaman that needed fixing. I was asking it based on ease of development, since essentially these 4th specs already exist in the current specs. Perhaps not to the extent that they did with Druids, but they're certainly there. Shaman for example have a skeleton tank spec within itself. Again, not as pronounced as Feral, but its in there.

Shaman doesn't have a skeleton tank in there. All they have is the ability to wield shields and use Rockbiter. Sure; you could make a tank out of it pretty easily by adding a fourth spec that is pretty much an Enhancement copy designed for tanking, but the same cannot be said for other classes. Also: Why would anyone do this? Here's why: A very few people want it to happen. That's really all. It would require development and balancing time, scaling time, and more..
The Feral Druid got split in two because the class roles were conflicting with one another for balance issues. Splitting it up was a straight-up fix for a problem that has been plaguing the Druid class for ages, ever since Druids became viable as 'other-than-healer.'
This suggestion fixes no such problem, and as such, it would only be implemented to appeal to a small number of people for the sake of coolness factor.

Warlocks already have Apotheosis. During beta they could effectively tank. Blizzard dismantled that capability ONLY because they felt that a tank spec required more dedication than merely turning a glyph on or off. Warlocks don't even have to be true Melee. Just make Dark Apotheosis its own spec, and make it a tank spec like it was in beta.

Could be done, but then: It would essentially be the exact same spec as Demonology, only tanking. Why would you do that? Also, I don't think Blizzard altered it because of what you say... There's something wrong when a pure class tanks as well as a tanking class, but deals as much damage as a pure.

Death Knights already cast spells.

Not in the traditional sense. Death Knights use magical abilities, but their entire framework is built upon being in melee.

Hunters can still use melee weapons, and before MoP they had melee abilities and could dual wield.

Yes... And it was never viable because of the focus on ranged. Meanwhile, you couldn't just MAKE it viable because you'd have to change ranged, pulling ranged hunters down.

In other words, no one is trying to reinvent the wheel here. I'm merely suggesting an expansion of what the classes can already do.

The fact that a class can do it doesn't mean that a class can do it well. A mage can fight in melee. Doesn't mean the mage should be able to do so as well as a warrior.

You do understand that almost all of that is present in game right now via Apotheosis right?

Doesn't make them melee combatants. It makes them casters that can take a hit and generate more threat.

Also Healing Monks do just fine fighting in melee with INT gear.

And the Monk class was built with this conversion mechanic into it for that spec... You could do the same for other specs, but it will take time, effort, and results might not please you.

Except it wasn't. Equivalency means equality. I wasn't trying to draw an illogical equality or similarity between the Guardian spec and the Warlock class. I was asking you which one is easier to accomplish. Its like asking a car salesman which car is more reliable, or asking a rock climber which mountain is harder to climb. That isn't a false equivalency, its called asking a question.

The false equivalency is in the fact that you ask which is harder: Adding a new (but already existing) spec, or altering a class in order to allow it to keep up with the times while giving each spec more personality. It's like asking 'what is harder; building a house or building a bridge.' They're just not the same. But I answered the question regardless, so there's no use in trying to pass it off as if I didn't.

[Deleted]

I just want lock tanking to hurry up and actually be implemented. As much as I enjoy my blood DK, running around in Dark Apo is just ridiculously fun..

Yea! Bring up the lock tanks!

[Teriz]

I think, with the hybrid tax dead and gone and some hybrids doing better dps than pure-dps classes, a 4th spec should be used to hybridize current pure dps classes.
With 4 of 11 classes being able to fulfill only one rule, and even then only one version of that role, melee or ranged dps, none can do both (except maybe Hunters could be interpreted as being both, the bastards... ) and the other classes being able to fulfill, play, not-have-to-reroll-to-play-another, 2, 3 even 4 roles I think that's the biggest thing that has to change.

Hybrid class players can just switch to other gear and specs if they want to play another role, if it's one their class offers. Yeah, gear has to be farmed but they keep their reps, personal achievements, unique stuff they got over the years, currently legendary quest progression etc. Pure DPS class players have to reroll, give up their character and all the stuff entailed if they want to switch to another role.

I played a Mage for 7 years and besides the overall suckiness of the Mage right now imho (in various regards, not - only - necessarily DPS, just class identity, spec difference, gameplay, everything - personal opinion, please don't go into it, there have been enough discussion on this) I've long wanted the option to fulfill another role in the raid. Have a use for duplicate token, have a secondary gear to build up. I still am primarily a DPS player but I'd love to have the *option*. Don't even care abuot Heal or Tank, just *something* else.

I agree with this. I also have a Mage, and I really dislike the direction they've taken the DPS in MoP. Problem is, if youre not feeling the DPS, the only thing you can do is reroll. Meanwhile on my Monk if DPS is starting to suck, I can switch to healing or tanking. It's no wonder that Hybrid classes are quite a bit more popular than pure classes.

4th spec to turn the pure classes into hybrids seems like a no-brainer, and is yet another class problem its implementation could solve.

---------- Post added 2013-04-23 at 02:54 PM ----------

This doesn't seem to have any lists for the other classes. Come up with some for them too! ;P

Check the post a bit above yours.

[gunner_recall]

I'd personally rather see a Mage spec that uses time magic to heal and support allies.

But this thread is about 4th specs based on WoW heroes.

It's too bad it couldn't be based on ideas that aren't retarded. You already ballsed that up.

[Splenda]

I think it would be a really fun addition but I imagine balancing another what, 11? specs? wouldn't exactly be easy.