[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Deleted]

The problem is that paying a subscription for GW2 combat placed inside of WoW isn't going to cut it for most people as GW2 is B2P and WoW has 9 years of your personal history to abandon.

A improvement to GW2 combat which has room to improve even more you mean? People who like larger raids, exploring and hunting gear(with the randomized stats they will use) and other types of things will most likely be fond of the game as well. For me and most of my friends combat is number one in a game, and its looking pretty good for Wildstar, some minor improvements are needed though. This is the reason we can play Rift for about 5 minutes before its over.

[Arlee]

(this is why I tend to prefer discussing the game with people who are actually IN the beta)

/sadface... but I like talking to you...

There's no logical reason other than to make more money. He gave a very glanced over spiel about balance/economy BS, without actually detailing a reason for it. Basically the equivalent of it costs that much because it just has to, no really I swear! The first few months these are up for grabs will be hilarious.

The logical part is because they want people to only buy the tokens to sell to other people to undermine the attractiveness of outside companies selling gold. This is meant to discourage that. Why buy from someone else when you can get gold from us (sort of) basically. Also, they want people to go the sub route instead of buying these for that because it would hurt their sub numbers which is a huge deal for any sub based game.

[RoninaThorstone]

/sadface... but I like talking to you...

Corgis, especially corgi princesses, are the except to all rules. Even space and time (IE: your sig)

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A improvement to GW2 combat which has room to improve even more you mean? People who like larger raids, exploring and hunting gear(with the randomized stats they will use) and other types of things will most likely be fond of the game as well. For me and most of my friends combat is number one in a game, and its looking pretty good for Wildstar, some minor improvements are needed though. This is the reason we can play Rift for about 5 minutes before its over.

Eh... Parts of it are an improvement. I like the telegraph system (reminds me a lot of NWO) but the movement Dat slip and slide...

[Kelimbror]

Well, that's alright. What works for you might not work for me and vice-versa. The Carbine folks are clearly betting they can make it work with just the folks who do like what they see. I hope they do, but I don't have my hopes too far up. Still, I'm interested in the game and willing to give it a chance.

What they're doing is certainly a big gamble. They're going "Success or Bust!" like SWTOR did, with the knowledge of that game's mistakes. It's risky, but I don't think it's worth the amount of doom and gloom for a game that won't even be out for at least another 6 months and that's been stated to have been refactoring a lot of its systems.

Stating that a game is using an outdated and majorly unsuccessful payment model on top of not bringing any great amount of innovation to the genre isn't doom and gloom. It's just being incredibly straight.

Can you say that subscriptions have been successful payment models over the last 5 years? No.
Can you say that Wildstar is doing a lot of things that haven't been done before? No.

These are just objective statements. Sure they may have time for some more innovation until release, but they were confident enough in their game as it stands right now to announce it is a subscription game. That tells me they think where the game stands it is already worth a subscription. When comparing to the rest of the market it's not at all.

And to be perfectly honest their innovations, now more than ever, feel like niche points to grab outliers in the market. When the market is as saturated as it is, that's pretty much the worst approach ever.

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The logical part is because

Right...all of that is for them to make more money. I meant that the reason is as vapid as that. There's no larger in-game economical impact of having a higher priced CREDD vs the standard subscription. It actually makes it easier for gold selling sites to continue operating as they can simply use the current lowest rate of a CREDD (in gold or whatever) to determine their prices and effectively undercut Carbine at every turn.

As long as one credd's gold equivalent is less than $15-$20, the gold sellers are actually winning. Both because they will nab people wanting to buy Credd for time and subscribers who think of buying credd to make gold. They will be undercutting Carbine on both transactions.

[Deleted]

h... Parts of it are an improvement. I like the telegraph system (reminds me a lot of NWO) but the movement Dat slip and slide...

Didnt have a problem with the movement, its not perfect, but still better than most games out there. What needs improvement is the impact when you use spells, it doesnt feel like you are doing damage like it should, if you get my point.

[Yunru]

I say...lets wait and see.
But you know what i would like too see in this game!
Able to get off the planet and battle in space (for pvp).
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1...1-13-42-37.jpg

Kinda like a mix of star wars battlefield space battle and ground fighting in capital spaceships.

[ShimmerSwirl]

Considering this group of gamers was primarily brought in by WoW, a subscription based MMO, when it broadened the market, I fail to really see the point in this >.>

That is if you equate subscription with "hardcore" and F2P with "casual" as you seem to.

This forum does have a lot of WoW players: mainly the entitled, casual WoW players who started in Wotlk and later, the majority of whom have never played EvE and do understand the benefits of this type of system.

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Anyone who thinks the payment model makes or breaks a game is kidding them self. If the game is engaging and fun, people will play it, regardless of the payment model.

Its hard to take the people who are saying, "Now i'm gonna have trouble playing this game" seriously. If your that on the fence already, you probably would not like the game regardless of payment model.

[RoninaThorstone]

Didnt have a problem with the movement, its not perfect, but still better than most games out there. What needs improvement is the impact when you use spells, it doesnt feel like you are doing damage like it should, if you get my point.

Yeah. I referenced that a few pages back by calling it "floaty". It feels very disjointed.

The problem I have with movement comes into play mainly on jumping puzzles. My character will land from jumping down to a ledge and then just sort of... slide. It's really cumbersome.

[Holtzmann]

This forum does have a lot of WoW players: mainly the entitled, casual WoW players who started in Wotlk and later, the majority of whom have never played EvE and do understand the benefits of this type of system.

I played EVE Online and I didn't mind having to pay a subscription for it. What broke the game for me were the other elements. But mostly how severely the game penalizes mistakes, specially early on. But that's something for a different thread. :P

Wildstar could succeed as a purely subscription-based game. It doesn't have to dethrone WoW, or even compete with it (given its combat system is already rather different). All it needs to do is to pay its initial development costs back (which is meant to be done by box sales) and earn enough to keep its servers running and new content developed (subscriptions). How big would those two numbers have to be? No one besides Carbine (and NCSoft) knows.

[Edge-]

This forum does have a lot of WoW players: mainly the entitled, casual WoW players who started in Wotlk and later, the majority of whom have never played EvE and do understand the benefits of this type of system.

Wait, not you're changing things up. So are subscription based players casual, or hardcore? Earlier you indicated they were hardcore, and F2P players were casual. Now subscription based players can be casual too?

And these kinds of comments are everywhere, not just these forums.

Anyone who thinks the payment model makes or breaks a game is kidding them self. If the game is engaging and fun, people will play it, regardless of the payment model.

It doesn't make or break it, but it absolutely has an impact on the success or failure of a game.

Its hard to take the people who are saying, "Now i'm gonna have trouble playing this game" seriously. If your that on the fence already, you probably would not like the game regardless of payment model.

I was a bit on the fence and would have absolutely picked it up if it were B2P/F2P. Now I'm leaning towards waiting 3-6 months to see how things pan out.

[Mothhive]

This seems pretty ludicrous to me. How many hours a week do you play MMOs? How much time investment do you need to make for 15 bucks to be worthwhile? I know that everyone has varying levels of income, but Im curious to hear further about your statement.

At the moment, I'm maybe playing GW2 8-10 hours a week at most, but that's only because my friend just started playing so I'm playing with her. I like GW2, but even that's too much for me. I'm not a mono gamer. I like variety in my gaming, so honestly, to me, I very much doubt any game will ever be worth a sub fee as one game will not satisfy me. It's not really to do with the money, I have more than enough disposable income to buy whatever games I'm interested in at any given time, I factor in time, money, and the amount of enjoyment I could get from a game to figure out if it's worth it to me.

Back in the day when I was poor/unemployed, I couldn't afford to buy new games all the time, or even the hardware to run them, so I just stuck with WoW, played for hours and hours every day, and at the time it felt like a great deal. Looking back, I probably spent more than £500 on sub fees on WoW and I most certainly didn't get my money's worth. Playing just one game continuously and having to deal with the time sinks sub based MMOs implement in order to keep you playing ruined the experience for me.

I know many people will disagree, and people often compare sub fees to things like going to the movies or having a decent meal in order to show what good value it is, but if you compare it to other games instead for a fairer comparison, those years where I pretty much played just 1 game, doing the same thing over and over, I could have played 20+ full priced games, many more if you factor in Indie games, Steam Sales, Humble bundles, etc. Now we also have a plethora of F2P or B2P games of a really high standard, some of which put out content at a faster pace than these P2P games, and it's incredibly hard to justify paying a sub fee when you do not get a superior service or experience.

[Kelimbror]

I know many people will disagree, and people often compare sub fees to things like going to the movies or having a decent meal in order to show what good value it is, but if you compare it to other games instead for a fairer comparison, those years where I pretty much played just 1 game, doing the same thing over and over, I could have played 20+ full priced games, many more if you factor in Indie games, Steam Sales, Humble bundles, etc. Now we also have a plethora of F2P or B2P games of a really high standard, some of which put out content at a faster pace than these P2P games, and it's incredibly hard to justify paying a sub fee when you do not get a superior service or experience.

Very well stated...as so many pro subscription people like to toss out the 'meal at McDonald's' (won't even go into how they judge people not paying subscriptions as fat, lazy, and poor...but anywho) as some sort of proof that a game is worth it. When the best you can do is compare an MMO to a cheap burger or a crappy, overpriced movie ticket...you don't really have much of an argument.

[Newbryn]

I always found the movie comparison terrible it just doesn't work because its not like you're going to the movies every month.

[Razael]

Yeah. I referenced that a few pages back by calling it "floaty". It feels very disjointed.

The problem I have with movement comes into play mainly on jumping puzzles. My character will land from jumping down to a ledge and then just sort of... slide. It's really cumbersome.

It also visually annoys me in combat, its so floaty the abilities don't feel impactful enough, its like i'm swinging wet paper , or shooting Beans out of my guns. And playing as a Robot it even shows more, its literally like theres no weight in the metals that compose the Mechari.

[KungFuFanta]

I think your post was meant to be negative, but personally this sounds like a decent amount for 15 bucks a month.

Aside from end game, everyone knows that end game needs to be thought out and executed.

My post was meant to cover both some negative and positive aspects and end in a positive note. I'm not a Wildstar hater, I enjoyed reading about it ever since their first trailer.

[nooty]

Love the Credd system i have been doing that in WOW for years through a trusted source ofc !

Now making it official in game makes me buy it more !! now

[KungFuFanta]

I have to say, I'd probably pay 15 bucks for that, assuming there were still things to do for progression at the level cap beyond just raiding (which is what's killing me in WoW), which we still don't know yet. I really wish I was selected to the Beta.

Yes, yes. They're going back to the drawing board and reworking a lot of their original ideas. Well, that's what Betas are for. Even WoW's own Beta and first few patches had a ridiculous amounts of iteration going on. That the developers have heard feedback and are attempting to implement solutions to perceived problems is a good thing. I mean, if someone is opening a cupcake shop and offers you and your friends the chance to try out their cupcakes ahead of opening day, and you all tell them you'd rather have chocolate muffins instead of blueberry, would you complain about it when in the opening day you saw lots of chocolate muffins for sale?

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against this game, I'm just an old MMO player speaking out of personal experience. A new MMO player would probably be super happy playing this game, regardless of sub fee, just like we all were with the first time we played WoW.

[Holtzmann]

I know many people will disagree, and people often compare sub fees to things like going to the movies or having a decent meal in order to show what good value it is, but if you compare it to other games instead for a fairer comparison, those years where I pretty much played just 1 game, doing the same thing over and over, I could have played 20+ full priced games, many more if you factor in Indie games, Steam Sales, Humble bundles, etc. Now we also have a plethora of F2P or B2P games of a really high standard, some of which put out content at a faster pace than these P2P games, and it's incredibly hard to justify paying a sub fee when you do not get a superior service or experience.

Important question: what happens when you don't like playing multiple games? I mean, surely I can't be the only one with a full library of Steam games I paid 10 bucks for played for maybe 2-8 hours (at between $5.00 and $1.25 an hour), then got bored of it and went back to World of Warcraft?

Different strokes, after all... I could be spending my WoW subscription money (and possible future Wildstar subscription) on a NetFlix sub. But I don't, because I know I wouldn't get nearly as much entertainment from that as I would do from my MMO of choice, simply because I don't like watching series/movies.

EDIT:

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against this game, I'm just an old MMO player speaking out of personal experience. A new MMO player would probably be super happy playing this game, regardless of sub fee, just like we all were with the first time we played WoW.

Hell, I'm a jaded MMO player and I probably be happy playing Wildstar with or without fee, simply because it's a game that appeals to me on multiple levels. Which is why I have been following its development for a while now.

[jearle]

At the moment, I'm maybe playing GW2 8-10 hours a week at most, but that's only because my friend just started playing so I'm playing with her. I like GW2, but even that's too much for me.

I'd be curious to know if you care to share how much money you have spent in the GW2 cash shop since you started playing?

I personally did not spend any money in the game across the few months I played it (in case the question arose).

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Different strokes, after all... I could be spending my WoW subscription money (and possible future Wildstar subscription) on a NetFlix sub. But I don't, because I know I wouldn't get nearly as much entertainment from that as I would do from my MMO of choice, simply because I don't like watching series/movies.

My wife and I are the same way, we're cord cutters. We have specific things that we like, and we rent and go to the movies whenever we want. However, MMOs keep our attention fairly well and we have a group of friends online and RL we have been gaming with for years (some i have dragged through a few different mmos).

[Mothhive]

I'd be curious to know if you care to share how much money you have spent in the GW2 cash shop since you started playing?

I personally did not spend any money in the game across the few months I played it (in case the question arose).

I bought another character slot right at the beginning as I had 6 specific characters I wanted to make, but nothing since. Think that was about £7.