Scottish Government releases "White Paper" on Independence

[Deleted]

we'd be fine.

But Scotland would suddenly find itself in a very unenviable position. As we would effectively be dictating their economic policies if they keep the pound, and would be subject to border controls as they've said they want more immigration and the UK wants less, so we'd have to have a controlled land border.
Add into that the problems of the EU membership, and I can see a large proportion of businesses re-locating south of the border, certainly all the major financial sector ones...

So we'd be laughing.

Not that I want that, I'm in favor of union, but if we are going to be realistic, thats what will happen, no matter what fantasy land the SNP are living in.

Great Britain-Scotland should leave the Eu and become an offshore tax paradise.

[jaakkeli]

But, why?

We dont have borders with England other than Land ownership. I can dance inbetween the borders of Scotland and England all night if I wanted to. Whats the point in the schengen agreement, isnt it counter productive in this case?

You seem to imagine a border as a fence and guard posts but only crazy communist countries build borders like that. You can dance on the border between Finland, Sweden and Norway as much as you like if you can actually figure out where the border is as most of it isn't marked (and Norway isn't even in the EU). Passport checkpoints and such have been gone for generations now.

Most borders between Western European countries are just road signs now and you probably already have those.

[Deleted]

we'd be fine.

But Scotland would suddenly find itself in a very unenviable position. As we would effectively be dictating their economic policies if they keep the pound, and would be subject to border controls as they've said they want more immigration and the UK wants less, so we'd have to have a controlled land border.
Add into that the problems of the EU membership, and I can see a large proportion of businesses re-locating south of the border, certainly all the major financial sector ones...

So we'd be laughing.

Not that I want that, I'm in favor of union, but if we are going to be realistic, thats what will happen, no matter what fantasy land the SNP are living in.

To be quite frank, everything to poke at the UK looks interesting to me, they've been poking at the EU for long enough.

[Doktor Faustus]

Also, a warning to the Scots*.

Do not treat this referendum as a general election, as it seems to be heading.

*By 'Scots' I mean EU citizens who are registered to vote in Scotland, as many Scots are not and won't be voting.

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Okay so, again, why the need for the Schengen Agreement, when we already have our own system. You've just reinforced what ive said instead of really debating it.

There is no system between England and Scotland currentley.

[Kalis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area

That's not between England and Scotland though, is it? That article reads as if it is between Britain, Ireland and the smaller islands, not within Britain itself.

[Deleted]

The consequences of not going independent are starting to look worse and worse. It looks like westminster are already looking into cutting Scotlands budget by £4bn per year if the result is a no vote, Economic control remaining at Westminster will just hurt scotland in the long run now.

The English Government hardly have Englands best interests at heart nevermind Scotlands.

History shall repeat itself and Scotland will be in one hell of a hole if we do not vote FOR independence now.

[Deleted]

Yeah but I cant think of a decent reason Scotland wouldnt be a part of it if they leave.

If scotland is part of the EU, then it will have to accept people under freedom of movement. It its not, then the SNP position of encouraging immigration seams worrying.

The UK currently wants to cut immigration and impost tighter rules, which could be bypassed by an open border to Scotland. So if Scotland goes independant, its pretty inconceivable the remaining UK would allow an open border. The Ireland situation is different as its not a direct land border to Britain.

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Great Britain-Scotland should leave the Eu and become an offshore tax paradise.

does not work for populations of our size.

[Kalis]

Yeah but I cant think of a decent reason Scotland wouldnt be a part of it if they leave.

If Scotland decides on immigration laws that England and Wales don't like, then I can.

This seems to be a popular theme amongst pro-independence supporters - they want the benefits of being in the union, but don't want to be in it.

Nations are just large corporations, and as anyone who has studied even basic business will tell you, it is diversifying that creates stability and weathers the storms - Scotland seems to be putting all their eggs in one oily basket, and that is bordering on suicidal.

[Deleted]

The consequences of not going independent are starting to look worse and worse. It looks like westminster are already looking into cutting Scotlands budget by £4bn per year if the result is a no vote, Economic control remaining at Westminster will just hurt scotland in the long run now.

The English Government hardly have Englands best interests at heart nevermind Scotlands.

History shall repeat itself and Scotland will be in one hell of a hole if we do not vote FOR independence now.

There is no English government. In fact you seam to ignore the irony that the only nation without a dedicated government in the UK, is england.

And no, the Scottish budget is not being cut. In fact greater devolution is a certainty if a no vote is returned.

Ask youself this. The only thing in that white paper that requires independance is removing trident, and Salmond has already said in order to join nato you'd have to let foreign owned ships carrying nukes dock in scotland...so thats a worthless policy.
But why have the SNP not implemented things like the childcare proposals? could it be they are holding back, penalising scotts, so they can "sell" a yes vote? If not, why has this not happened whilst they've been in power.
And yes, they can do it today, they could have done it yesterday, and they dont need a yes vote to do it next year....

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This seems to be a popular theme amongst pro-independence supporters - they want the benefits of being in the union, but don't want to be in it.

exactly.

What a lot of pro-independance pundits dont want Scotts to realise is that as soon as a yes vote is returned, the UK will not be acting in Scotlands interests, but in the interests of the remaining UK.
That means no currency agreement, and no open border. no matter how much the SNP says its good for the UK< its not their decision to make, it the UK's.

[Kalis]

That is a future problem then, however is the immigration we get in Scotland, of a good enough quality to risk leaving borders open? There are a lot of people who do move to countries to leech or escape problems, however I genuinly have to say in my own anecdotal experience that 99% of the people ive met from abroad all either work / study and integrate perfectly.

It becomes a problem the moment Scotland votes Yes.

If England and Wales decide to initiate a stricter immigration policy, then the border with Scotland will be an obvious weakpoint, so England will have to do something about it, which will have a greater impact on Scotland than it will on England due to the size of their economies.

It's irrelevant how hard they work, it's whether the infrastructure is in place to support them.

[Deleted]

What's the reason for independence? Most "Scots" don't even speak their own language anymore...

[Deleted]

What's the reason for independence? Most "Scots" don't even speak their own language anymore...

Nobody asked you Greece.

[Deleted]

What's the reason for independence? Most "Scots" don't even speak their own language anymore...

SNP want more power, willing to lie to get it.

Politics basically.

[Deleted]

SNP want more power, willing to lie to get it.

Politics basically.

Or you know, due to the fact that Scottish people are treated like second class citizens?

As burns said, "We are bought and sold for English gold. Such a parcel of rogues in a nation."

[Shadowmelded]

SNP want more power, willing to lie to get it.

Politics basically.

Except, in the event of a Yes vote, the SNP will no longer have any reason to remain a single party (after the adjustment period) since they're fairly varied politically and are only unified on the issue of Independence.

[Kalis]

What's the reason for independence? Most "Scots" don't even speak their own language anymore...

Political opportunism.

Not wanting to share with Wales and Northern Ireland, who are money sinks, but we love 'em. Sometimes not so much in the case of NI.


Take your pick.


It doesn't really make much sense, as European countries are becoming more integrated anyway, and England will control their currency unless they go into the Euro...then Germany will.

Or you know, due to the fact that Scottish people are treated like second class citizens?

As burns said, "We are bought and sold for English gold. Such a parcel of rogues in a nation."

...and apparently people still thinking it is the 18th Century is another reason they want independence.

[Deleted]

Or you know, due to the fact that Scottish people are treated like second class citizens?

As burns said, "We are bought and sold for English gold. Such a parcel of rogues in a nation."

Get back to me when you have to pay for Uni.

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Except, in the event of a Yes vote, the SNP will no longer have any reason to remain a single party (after the adjustment period) since they're fairly varied politically and are only unified on the issue of Independence.

Fine.

Alex Salmond wants more power. Willing to bullshit to get it.

Politics basically.

[Deleted]

Political opportunism.

Not wanting to share with Wales and Northern Ireland, who are money sinks, but we love 'em. Sometimes not so much in the case of NI.


Take your pick.


It doesn't really make much sense, as European countries are becoming more integrated anyway, and England will control their currency unless they go into the Euro...then Germany will.



...and apparently people still thinking it is the 18th Century is another reason they want independence.

What was said then, still stands today.

We can even look at more recent events such as the Thatcher era, from 1979 Thatcher made Scotland a cesspit for almost 11 years.

[Deleted]

What was said then, still stands today.

We can even look at more recent events such as the Thatcher era, from 1979 Thatcher made Scotland a cesspit for almost 11 years.

Yeah cos it was only Scotland that suffered under Thatcher.

[Deleted]

Get back to me when you have to pay for Uni.

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Fine.

Alex Salmond wants more power. Willing to bullshit to get it.

Politics basically.

You do understand that free education is part of the Scottish budget, right?