Montreal approves new laws on the handling and ownership of pitbull-like dogs

[GrinningMan]

I'm okay with this. While the breed used to be great, poor breeding and shitty owners have now made the pitbull dangerous.

Back in the day owners/breeders were far more responsible when selecting which dogs to breed, to ensure puppies represented the breed well. Unfortunately, not many people do this anymore. More people are breeding aggressive lines, and those aggressive lines are going to families that are truly just looking for the great family dog that the pit bull once was.

Pitbulls needs to be regulated, since we've proven time and time again that we can't be responsible with such a powerful breed. We also cannot keep trying to put all dogs in the same category. Some breeds are more prone to aggression than others and this is because of how we bred them.

Responsibility, what's that? Is it a filter for snapchats? Is it a meme?

/s

[TirielWoW]

Man I am more mad about that incident after I typed the whole thing out.

"Any dog can be aggressive", idk. Yes, any dog of any breed can have behavior issues, sure. But my own personal experience from walking my pup/going to dog parks everyday indicates that breed is a good indicator of behavior...the friendliest breeds at the park (both with dogs and people) tend to be labs, poodles, retrievers.

Dogs I've seen with "behavior problems" aka attacking other animals: pit bull, boxer, belgian malnois, doberman pincher.

Situations where dogs have been bossy/annoying to other dogs but not aggressive: herding breeds.

Questionable altercations where my dog had to act super submissive (she is already super submissive) to "placate" the other dog: two pit bulls, belgian tervuren.

I think that there are many dog owners out there that are doing "the right things" but have to be constantly vigilant with their dog's behavior and behavior is an ongoing challenge/issue. For those dogs, innate temperament is relevant.

I still think that many people get a Pit Bull because of the stereotype, so it's more of a matter of the types of people who purchase them tend to be the types of people who should not own one.

[Themius]

There was a documentary on dogs that actually talked in depth about how the Russian facility separately bred for tameness with one group and aggression in another, I think it was a National Geographic documentary.

- - - Updated - - -


Labradors are one of the most popular dog breeds in the US and Canada and vastly outnumber pit bulls. I thought this was common knowledge.

Labradors are usually bought and bred and are given to owners who are responsible. In a lot of places breeders don't give out labradors freely to everyone who may come by, they typically go to a house that has shown they can take care of a dog, and there is usually an application process..

This goes back to my shar pei statement. Shar peis are the most violent and aggressive dogs yet they rarely ever attack people why is that? Becuase owners are better trained to handle them, because they are a breed that has been bred they have a pedigree and owners have to usually go through an application process to get one and prove they can handle the dog.

Pitbulls are usually a free-50 dollar dog at a pound, usually taken in by many people who don't actually know how to handle a dog but want a dog.

[Celista]

and that is something that can occur in any dog line, of any breed.

Yes but the point is that certain breeds GREATLY OUTNUMBER other breeds in bite/fatality statistics and when that happens we need to do something about controlling that breed. Because aggression is not simply due to owner training/behavior, it is a combination of training and innate temperament.

It's not a breed's fault that it has been bred for aggression, but that doesn't mean we stick our head in the sand about behavior that is derived from breeding from certain behaviors/characteristics and think that proper training will 100% fix things.

Personally I think the solution is that all dogs should be spayed/neutered before 6 months of age or lose their dog/receive heavy fines, unregistered dogs must be released to state authorities and only registered breeders can breed dogs, which for non-military or police personnel must revolve around breeding for health and positive temperament. "Protection" dogs would require a special license.

[Themius]

Yes but the point is that certain breeds GREATLY OUTNUMBER other breeds in bite/fatality statistics and when that happens we need to do something about controlling that breed. Because aggression is not simply due to owner training/behavior, it is a combination of training and innate temperament.

It's not a breed's fault that it has been bred for aggression, but that doesn't mean we stick our head in the sand about behavior that is derived from breeding from certain behaviors/characteristics and think that proper training will 100% fix things.

Personally I think the solution is that all dogs should be spayed/neutered before 6 months of age or lose their dog/receive heavy fines, unregistered dogs must be released to state authorities and only registered breeders can breed dogs, which for non-military or police personnel must revolve around breeding for health and positive temperament. "Protection" dogs would require a special license.

Here's a note on pitbull attacks btw... fixed pitbulls account for... barely any attacks.. some years maybe 1 or 2... unfixed ones account for the majority of the attacks. fixed pitbulls don't attack are extremely higher rates than other dogs.. .they're like normal dogs. However many people don't unfixed dogs.

[Deleted]

Yeah I don't have a problem with this, some breeds are just more violent and aggressive than others.

[starlord]

Yes but the point is that certain breeds GREATLY OUTNUMBER other breeds in bite/fatality statistics and when that happens we need to do something about controlling that breed. Because aggression is not simply due to owner training/behavior, it is a combination of training and innate temperament.

It's not a breed's fault that it has been bred for aggression, but that doesn't mean we stick our head in the sand about behavior that is derived from breeding from certain behaviors/characteristics and think that proper training will 100% fix things.

Personally I think the solution is that all dogs should be spayed/neutered before 6 months of age or lose their dog/receive heavy fines, unregistered dogs must be released to state authorities and only registered breeders can breed dogs, which for non-military or police personnel must revolve around breeding for health and positive temperament. "Protection" dogs would require a special license.

my point is that once that occurs there will just be a new breed targeted or created to fulfill the same niche. but completely overhauling dog ownership would be a solution, although i think it would be difficult to get through.

[Celista]

I still think that many people get a Pit Bull because of the stereotype, so it's more of a matter of the types of people who purchase them tend to be the types of people who should not own one.

That could very well be true. My experience with pit bull owners is that they chose their dogs from shelters and are well-meaning but simply haven't been able to address their dog's behavior problems. My neighbor told me the other day that she chose her dogs because they had the sweetest temperament at the shelter, but once she brought them home she started having issues...to her credit she at least has fantastic fencing.

A friend of mine has had a pit bull that has had lifelong behavior problems, she works in veterinary care and the dog has had extensive behavior classes. I was surprised when she told me she's had the dog since she was a puppy.

Shrug. I've also met some very sweet pit bulls, the the problematic ones that I've met were owners who were well-meaning, got their dogs from a shelter and have put every effort possible into addressing their behavior (of course I can't really confirm this, but these individuals were definitely NOT the type to get a dog "for protection purposes" or "to look badass").

- - - Updated - - -

my point is that once that occurs there will just be a new breed targeted or created to fulfill the same niche. but completely overhauling dog ownership would be a solution, although i think it would be difficult to get through.

Yes I think we have been agreeing on that. Dog ownership legislation would be hard in the US because Americans don't like government interference (especially in Conservative states).

[starlord]

Unfortunately a shelter dog is always a gamble insofar as temperment is concerned. the better shelters will conduct tests on them though.

[Celista]

Here's a note on pitbull attacks btw... fixed pitbulls account for... barely any attacks.. some years maybe 1 or 2... unfixed ones account for the majority of the attacks. fixed pitbulls don't attack are extremely higher rates than other dogs.. .they're like normal dogs. However many people don't unfixed dogs.

Hmm that's interesting if true. I think dogs bite/attack for a variety of reasons, it's not necessarily aggression. Something I meant to touch on earlier but didn't, it is a relevant part of bite statistics.

[TirielWoW]

That could very well be true. My experience with pit bull owners is that they chose their dogs from shelters and are well-meaning but simply haven't been able to address their dog's behavior problems. My neighbor told me the other day that she chose her dogs because they had the sweetest temperament at the shelter, but once she brought them home she started having issues...to her credit she at least has fantastic fencing.

A friend of mine has had a pit bull that has had lifelong behavior problems, she works in veterinary care and the dog has had extensive behavior classes. I was surprised when she told me she's had the dog since she was a puppy.

Shrug. I've also met some very sweet pit bulls, the the problematic ones that I've met were owners who were well-meaning, got their dogs from a shelter and have put every effort possible into addressing their behavior (of course I can't really confirm this, but these individuals were definitely NOT the type to get a dog "for protection purposes" or "to look badass").

There's a couple of things that stick out to me in your neighbor's case. One, I'm curious how soon she spayed/neutered. And two, sometimes dogs will pick up poor behavior from other dogs. Some dogs, you can't have them with other dogs, because their attitude and behavior shifts when around other dogs. It's like how a single stray dog can be fine, but when they come in pairs or more, they can be extremely dangerous because of pack behavior. As terrible as it sounds, she probably should rehome one of the dogs to someone who can handle its antics.

It's harsh, but ultimately she has an obligation to those around her to make sure her dogs aren't dangerous. And I say this of every dog owner, including myself.

[Celista]

There's a couple of things that stick out to me in your neighbor's case. One, I'm curious how soon she spayed/neutered. And two, sometimes dogs will pick up poor behavior from other dogs. Some dogs, you can't have them with other dogs, because their attitude and behavior shifts when around other dogs. It's like how a single stray dog can be fine, but when they come in pairs or more, they can be extremely dangerous because of pack behavior. As terrible as it sounds, she probably should rehome one of the dogs to someone who can handle its antics.

It's harsh, but ultimately she has an obligation to those around her to make sure her dogs aren't dangerous. And I say this of every dog owner, including myself.

I agree, especially with the latter part. It's hard to tell what actually happens in a household in regards to dog-rearing, owners can have good intentions but can inadvertently end up reinforcing the behavior they're trying to extinguish. She is proactive in regards to fencing (she recently double-fenced the gate going into her backyard) but that isn't a substitute for proper training (not to say she isn't training but she has clearly stated that both dogs have behavioral issues). She did state that things became "much worse" when they got a second dog which should have been a sign that one should be rehomed, she did sound like she thought about it but couldn't bear to give one up. Admittedly I can understand how difficult a decision like that may be, pit bulls are overrepresented in shelters out here and returning a dog to a shelter/rehoming can increase their likelihood of trauma to the animal/risk of euthanasia.

[truckboattruck]

they are genetic monsters, who cant be trusted
that being said, handle at your own risk if thats what you want

you guys need to go to liveleaks and look up "pitbull attack"
they turn on people all the time

[Forgottenone]

they are genetic monsters, who cant be trusted
that being said, handle at your own risk if thats what you want

you guys need to go to liveleaks and look up "pitbull attack"
they turn on people all the time

It's like you completely disregarded EVERY POST IN THIS THREAD just to spew bullshit.

They aren't all monsters who can't be trusted, if you want to see monsters go grab everyone you truly love then you can all take a good look in the mirror and find all the monsters you want when looking at yourselves.

They don't all turn on people, have had many people who had them and they were the same as a golden retriever. Now that doesn't mean they are for everyone, as others have said they are more aggressive than other breeds and too easily accessible. They basically need to be regulated and controlled because you can't trust the average person to raise a pitbull properly. People who want pitbulls should have to have their homes inspected, their actual behavior checked (is the owner fucking idiotic?), and potential owners should have to be tested and basically go through whatever rules you want to impose on them.

Just to prove that you can properly handle such a dog. You are handling the most dangerous breed in the world, so expect to go through hoops for it.

[truckboattruck]

It's like you completely disregarded EVERY POST IN THIS THREAD just to spew bullshit.

They aren't all monsters who can't be trusted, if you want to see monsters go grab everyone you truly love then you can all take a good look in the mirror and find all the monsters you want when looking at yourselves.

They don't all turn on people, have had many people who had them and they were the same as a golden retriever. Now that doesn't mean they are for everyone, as others have said they are more aggressive than other breeds and too easily accessible. They basically need to be regulated and controlled because you can't trust the average person to raise a pitbull properly. People who want pitbulls should have to have their homes inspected, their actual behavior checked (is the owner fucking idiotic?), and potential owners should have to be tested and basically go through whatever rules you want to impose on them.

Just to prove that you can properly handle such a dog. You are handling the most dangerous breed in the world, so expect to go through hoops for it.

avoiding reality doesn't suddenly spirit it away
they are killers

no amount of evidence and charts and data would wake people like you up,
but you go ahead and hold onto that delusion if it makes you happy
I truly hope you never learn the hard way



from dogbite.org
'2015 dog bite fatality statistics
34 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2015. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 82% (28) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6.6% of the total U.S. dog population.2
Together, pit bulls (28) and rottweilers (3), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 91% of the total recorded deaths in 2015. This same combination also accounted for 76% of all fatal attacks during the 11-year period of 2005 to 2015.
The breakdown between these two breeds is substantial over this 11-year period. From 2005 to 2015, pit bulls killed 232 Americans, about one citizen every 17 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 41, about one citizen every 98 days.
In the year of 2015, the combination of pit bulls (28), their close cousins, American bulldogs (2), and rottweilers (3) contributed to 97% (33) of all dog bite-related fatalities. Both American bulldog fatalities occurred in Miami-Dade County, Florida.'

thats right, pitbulls are 6.6% of the dog population and commit 82% of all people killings.
dont tell me it isn't genetic

[Daedius]

I think it's a huge stretch to claim that all dog mixes look like they have pit in them.

Labrador/Boxer mixes look like "pitbulls". Let's euthanize them just because of looks! -- pretty much what this stupid law comes down to.

[Dezerte]

Honestly... I'd like to see a ban of all breeds of dogs that have health issues as a result of breeding practices of the past. But in this particular case, the problem with aggressive dogs is almost always the owner's fault.

[Daedius]

avoiding reality doesn't suddenly spirit it away
they are killers

no amount of evidence and charts and data would wake people like you up,
but you go ahead and hold onto that delusion if it makes you happy
I truly hope you never learn the hard way

from dogbite.org
'2015 dog bite fatality statistics
34 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2015. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 82% (28) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6.6% of the total U.S. dog population.2
Together, pit bulls (28) and rottweilers (3), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 91% of the total recorded deaths in 2015. This same combination also accounted for 76% of all fatal attacks during the 11-year period of 2005 to 2015.
The breakdown between these two breeds is substantial over this 11-year period. From 2005 to 2015, pit bulls killed 232 Americans, about one citizen every 17 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 41, about one citizen every 98 days.
In the year of 2015, the combination of pit bulls (28), their close cousins, American bulldogs (2), and rottweilers (3) contributed to 97% (33) of all dog bite-related fatalities. Both American bulldog fatalities occurred in Miami-Dade County, Florida.'

thats right, pitbulls are 6.6% of the dog population and commit 82% of all people killings.
dont tell me it isn't genetic

Them "statistics", the vast majority of them are skewed because a lot of morons think many breeds are "pitbulls" when they are not... but the incidences are reported as being commit by a "pitbull" because of idiotic police departments...

And the fact "Pitbull" isn't a breed but a category of dog... where as Rottweiler is a breed... so yeah, stupid statistic.

This is the equivalent of saying all blacks around the world commit crime while people in Ireland don't. That's exactly what them statistics are basically like...

[Celista]

Labrador/Boxer mixes look like "pitbulls". Let's euthanize them just because of looks! -- pretty much what this stupid law comes down to.

Yes, because labs and boxers get mistaken for pit bulls all of the time I'm tired of hearing nonsense, also genetic testing is available at most shelters and veterinary clinics.

[Daedius]

Yes, because labs and boxers get mistaken for pit bulls all of the time I'm tired of hearing nonsense, also genetic testing is available at most shelters and veterinary clinics.

Say what you want, but countless times dogs have been falsely identified as "pitbulls" and are reported as such... and genetic tests? Please... the only time they bother doing that is for public news headers of an incident that made headlines... or a fought court appeal of a dog being held custody because Fido looks like a "pitbull" that the ignorant neighbour reported, and such.