Firelands Raid Changes Incoming

Originally Posted by sourmonkey

The only ppl who have a right to complain are the very few that have heroic rag on farm. Everyone one else this nerds for you and I doubt many of us in this thread can say they have hm rag on farm . So please stfu about how this company runs and go make your own.

I dont think the guilds with Rag HM on farm would care. This gives them more sparetime to prepare for 4.3 and gear alts.
They get their name and glory from worldfirstrace kills.

Yes its a shame you might lose some harder content, but the people who are whining now would still run the easycontent if they get the choice like the icc buff.
Their guild would decide to just run it easymode since there is no more statusgain.

I dont see the problem really

Thats just gay, normal mode is already total faceroll, and even 6/7 heroic is extremely easy with 378ish gear after the 25 man nerfs, even ragnaros is sooo much easier now after the nerf...How can some people be so bad at that game.

Heroic modes where meant to be optional chanenges for good and dedicated players, and normal mode for bad/very casual players to see the content...

Originally Posted by brolly

Thats just gay, normal mode is already total faceroll, and even 6/7 heroic is extremely easy with 378ish gear after the 25 man nerfs, even ragnaros is sooo much easier now after the nerf...How can some people be so bad at that game.

Heroic modes where meant to be optional chanenges for good and dedicated players, and normal mode for bad/very casual players to see the content...

That's the problem. There's nothing for good players who are 7/7 and who's guilds aren't good enough to go 3/7h to do. They might as well not even be playing the game.

And when less than 5% of the community is 6/7 heroic I really have to question where your perception that that's easy is coming from, because that's certainly not your own.

Originally Posted by Crashdummy

Wrath was succesfull because people were having fun in the game, instead of being too busy showing their epeens. The only thing Wrath needed was harder heroics and it would have been perfect.

But blizzard decider to catter to the very few people bashing wrtah in forums but without losing what wrath brought and created Cata, ended up losing people from both sides and so they need to rush the expansion because of its blatant failure.

I'm sorry,, but that's what happened. Even hardcore people had fun in Wrath, the problem was that many people thought that it was cool to bash it and that others people might think they were pro for bashing Wrath, they didnt realized how much fun millons were having with it.

Blizzard only has all the data needed when they nerf stuff, right?

When they do what they did from WotLK to Cataclysm, they've just pulled that out of their asses and cattered to very very very very very few and tiny number of players.

Face it, they catter to any loss that is higher than whoever stayed. So yes, they lost way more "I prefer TBC" subs with Wrath model and decided to go back to part of it with Cataclysm.

The same way they're know loosing more from the other side. Altough they're loosing from both sides right now, they've decided that the "I prefer WotLK" players are easier to save right now and will show more in short term return.

Originally Posted by VanishO2

No, they're not. "Don't try to spin it". Nobody tested heroic ragnaros on PTR. The same way the found a problem of a debuff not being applied correctly during the fight, making it easier and fixed it. So, yes, they've also "buffed" heroic ragnaros after the release. Only in your small mind removing 20% dmg/hp and more is the same as adjusting a debuff to be correctly applied or fixing a skill that nobody could heal, or timer noboby could do, etc. with current gear avaiable.

And nobody cares about being labeled as good as paragon. Care about trying the same content until new content is out.

You're not overgearing a content with gear meant to be used on it, stop failing. If Blizzard apply those nerfs Deathwing after 2 weeks, you'll come with the same failing "you've farmed the content for 2 weeks".

Just stop trolling.

No. heroic mode content with chalenge is the only thing that keeps many players in here... why in gods name do casuals/bads need to see heroic content?! thats what normals are for. Just stop your bullshit because the thing that makes wow bleed subs is the ridiculous amount of endgame content. You get 85 and theres shit to do except fake ilevel and run za/zg untl you can run firelands once a week in an alt run.
THAT'S the problem, not optional heroic modes for those who want a challenge. Should I repeat they're optional and meant to be hard?

Nerf normal modes all you want and nerf heroics in the damn next content all you want, but this change is spitting in the face of all those players who made a serious effort on heroics. It's ruining each and every feeling of progression for me. Almost 2000 guilds are at 6/7 heroic. world rank 2000 has definitely never been hardcore or something to brag about. Its already very doable and if you didn't down it now you dont fucking deserve it. As I stated before, this is actually the first time I'm thinkig about permanently unsubbing. And I will if 4.3 is the same shit yet again.

Get your hands off heroic modes in running content! There's no brickwall!

Originally Posted by Kaeleena

I lol'd so hard at this. No. They're losing subs because only 30% of people could down Nef and Cho'gall prenerf. The fights were overtuned and good players were brick walled, some of them were even brick walled out of raiding completely. Development focusing on heroic mode content which only a fraction of the playerbase gets to clear is what's ruining the game.

Firstly. "good players" that cannot down Nef and Cho'Gall, they need to re-think if they really were "good players".

The game now has 2 settings, Normal and Heroic. Normal is already reasonably easy, so that everyone can see the content which is what all the casual wanted? That has been done, even if you nerf the Normal so even the bad and the retarded get to see the content, that is still fine.

But couldn't they just have left the HC un-touched? So casual have their faceroll content and raiders get their HC to go up against.

Only 9.9% of players are 3/7 Heroic. You'll still be in the "cool kids club" if you can get 3 bosses down on heroic, the club just won't be as exclusive, and if it's content you haven't been able to down yet I don't understand how you could say you won't get enough satisfaction. Which comes back to the crux of the whole matter, people want to be able to say they can do stuff other people didn't do, which is simply irrelevant and a horrible reason to raid.

I don't give a shit what anyone else is doing ^^ I care what me and my raid team are doing, if you can't understand how doing something while it is still hard is more satisfying - then I really can't even begin to explain the concepts of competitism and reaching your goals. Why do people presume that I must be some kind of elitist snob because me and my guild want to clear the content at it's curent difficulty o.o Does this entitle me to call everyone in favour of the nerfs a lazy ass who wants everything handed to him? I wouldn't presume to do so... so please don't presume the above about me either. Also for the record my guild has 1/7 hc and rhyo down to 2% last raid night... as I said we have had an unstable roster almost every week since we began. If I was an angry hardcore, I could have been in a more progressed guild rather than sticking it out with the people i love playing with.

Originally Posted by Heltoray

Get your hands off heroic modes in running content! There's no brickwall!

25% of the player base is 6/7 normal stuck on Rag and only 9.9% of the player base is 3/7 heroic. Yeah. there certainly are brick walls.

That's not good. if you don't manage to make it - you're bad anyway. look at wowprogress how many ,,good" guilds there are at 7/7 normal or even 3/7 H. 15000? Lol!


edit: quoted wrong person.

Originally Posted by Heltoray

No. heroic mode content with chalenge is the only thing that keeps many players in here... why in gods name do casuals/bads need to see heroic content?! thats what normals are for. Just stop your bullshit because the thing that makes wow bleed subs is the ridiculous amount of endgame content. You get 85 and theres shit to do except fake ilevel and run za/zg untl you can run firelands once a week in an alt run.
THAT'S the problem, not optional heroic modes for those who want a challenge. Should I repeat they're optional and meant to be hard?

Nerf normal modes all you want and nerf heroics in the damn next content all you want, but this change is spitting in the face of all those players who made a serious effort on heroics. It's ruining each and every feeling of progression for me. Almost 2000 guilds are at 6/7 heroic. world rank 2000 has definitely never been hardcore or something to brag about. Its already very doable and if you didn't down it now you dont fucking deserve it. As I stated before, this is actually the first time I'm thinkig about permanently unsubbing. And I will if 4.3 is the same shit yet again.

Get your hands off heroic modes in running content! There's no brickwall!

People like you are why the community is so horrible. I can get over the immature kids, but elitists like you really urk me. You honestly think Casuals don't want a challenge? Haha. Maybe not all of them, but allot do. I bet you haven't even cleared HC firelands yet. Stop stroking your huge epeen.

Originally Posted by Lycefli

People like you are why the community is so horrible. I can get over the immature kids, but elitists like you really urk me. You honestly think Casuals don't want a challenge? Haha. Maybe not all of them, but allot do. I bet you haven't even cleared HC firelands yet. Stop stroking your huge epeen.

ah so you want stuff nerfed to oblivion to have your ,,challenge" clearing it within 2 hours. i see, makes sense.

Originally Posted by Kaeleena

That's the problem. There's nothing for good players who are 7/7 and who's guilds aren't good enough to go 3/7h to do. They might as well not even be playing the game.

And when less than 5% of the community is 6/7 heroic I really have to question where your perception that that's easy is coming from, because that's certainly not you.

I play casual, which doesn't mean i'm a bad player. I used to raid harcore but now reallife has taken over. Which means i dont have the dedication to play as much as i used to. We got a good core of friends with skill and we have some random others helping us. By now we cleared normalmode. If nerfs dont set in i am sure we will kill some heroic bosses aswell before 4.3. This patch is a shame for our progression but on the other hand it helps us preparing for 4.3. Since we only raid 3 hours on 2 days a week. I'd see clearing normal with that small timeframe is pretty decent (we did roll into firelands with an 359 ilvl average).

And yes i dont understand why people fail as much as they do. But it doens't make all players bad. You are just dependent of guildmates. So you can be all elitist saying this change is bad, but i really dont see the point. It gives you acces to better loots and new content. While for people with the bosses on farm it is a quality of life improvement.

ok, wait, its next week o.O !!!!???

I want to use so many swear words that probably there isn't in the english language towards blizzard but at the same time i wanna keep my place here in the forum (i.e dont want bann) so i wont say nothing only that blizzard make this game only more shit with every other expansion.What was the point someone to clear this content or previous one when after a month they will be nerfed by 20% ? sorry but i start to think only retards work for blizzard and nothing else......

Originally Posted by Kaeleena

By your own definition of what everyone else should do now, Paragon should've simply farmed 6/7H for 6 months to overgear the fight.

And the only thing anyone cares about is getting to do content other people can't do, clearly. Even by your own admission, if a nerfed kill doesn't carry the same weight with a person as a prenerf kill, they're there not because they want to see the content but because they want to do something other people can't.

If people clear to Deathwing week 1 and don't have him killed by week 2, I'll eat my hat. You're talking about a normal mode encounter that should have normal difficulty. Not Heroic Ragnaros.

LoL... troll harder. You and your "overgearing current content with current gear".

So now, we're talking about normal difficulty and not heroic? So what is the problem nerfing normal and not heroic in the 1st place? And what with all this "ppl need to get geared in heroic firelands, because they need to be prepared to normal deathwing"?????

See the lack of logic?

Most of your post is way too much confusing and out of place.

Anyway, Paragon went there, with all their 372/379 gear and roflstomp normal mode that was tunned to 359 gear (like a lot of guild by now actually, altough wowprogress don't show), grabbed tons of 378 gear (since they do it on 25man) and started killing heroic content tunned to ~378 for first bosses (lol, guess what, tons of guilds with 1/7 to 3/7, see the magic happening?) all the way to 391 on Heroic Rag. Remember that some 372/379 gear is even BIS for heroic content, and they have it since the begining. They didn't kill H-Rag on the 1st week it was avaiable to them, so do you think that they've killed him with the same gear they started normal firelands? Really that naive? They've farmed what was enough for their group to reach the kill. They've got all the 391 that dropped from previous bosses while trying to kill Rag for a few weeks together with their 372/379 Bis + 378 gear.

They did that because they are fighting for world 1st. Now since a lot of players are not here for world 1st, but are for the same challenge. Unfortunatelly if you've planned to have your time (or because of many problems ppl do have during progression, like conection problems, attendance, etc.) because a tier lasts for 6 months and didn't kill it at the same time as Paragon, you're just bad and need nerfs because you're just trying to outgear the content by trying to reach the 378-391 avg to do the same thing.

Fail, just fail. By your logic, even Paragon outgeared the content.

Originally Posted by Crashdummy

Wrath was succesfull because people were having fun in the game, instead of being too busy showing their epeens. The only thing Wrath needed was harder heroics and it would have been perfect.

But blizzard decider to catter to the very few people bashing wrtah in forums but without losing what wrath brought and created Cata, ended up losing people from both sides and so they need to rush the expansion because of its blatant failure.

I'm sorry,, but that's what happened. Even hardcore people had fun in Wrath, the problem was that many people thought that it was cool to bash it and that others people might think they were pro for bashing Wrath, they didnt realized how much fun millons were having with it.

The definition of fun is relative to each person. Personally Wrath wasn't fun.

It was fun for those who gained access to well... everything. Gear and raids were handed out to them and consequently everything was toned down (directly or indirectly) to the point were the could combine that with their "i have life" motto.

I like this way of nerfing, I gives the hardcore raiders some time to relax / gear alts for the next race, and give casuals a chance to see the fight. This change only affects the casuals imo, people who already have 7/7 hc will only notice the speed in which they can clear it as they have it on farm already.
Still find it strange that they have not nerfed heroic T11 and I can bet by 4.3 launch more people would of killed 7/7 then have 13/13

BEHOLD! THE RAGE OF THE FIRELANDS!

Oh well, personally, as a 4/7H semi-casual raider I'm completely neutral about this change. If I run out of things to do on WoW, I'll just play another game or gear one alt. My life is busy enough as it is.

Originally Posted by troxje

And yes i dont understand why people fail as much as they do. But it doens't make all players bad. You are just dependent of guildmates. So you can be all elitist saying this change is bad, but i really dont see the point. It gives you acces to better loots and new content. While for people with the bosses on farm it is a quality of life improvement.

I never said the change was bad. The change is great, for everyone. It means a larger percentage of the playerbase will have better gear when 4.3 comes out and a larger percentage of the player base will have an opportunity to kill Deathwing on normal. What I'm against is Blizzard's development philosophy that spending the majority of their time tuning content for the top 5% of players is what's killing this game. You don't need a whole mode(in this case specifically) a whole 5 bosses to yourself. The hardcore raiders where perfectly happy for the last 6 years when a few bosses per tier where actually hardcore difficulty and the others were tiered slightly lower in difficulty. Ever since ToC the majority of the development of the game has been aimed at them. Why should 5% of players get 50%(in this case 35% of all bosses) to themselves? They shouldn't. 51.5% of players should have something to do other than kill 2/7H or wipe on normal Rag all day. Sorry, it's not fair.

Originally Posted by T Man

I like this way of nerfing, I gives the hardcore raiders some time to relax / gear alts for the next race, and give casuals a chance to see the fight.

No one here is stopping the Normal mode nerf, so you can see the fight without anyone disagreeing with you here.

People are mainly having concern over nerfing the HC mode.