Tier Sets in BfA, Developer Interviews, Hotfixes Nov 14, Blue Posts, Lineage 2

Originally Posted by leviathonlx

How about we see how it works before we go and whine? That also has nothing to do with the fact that the best ilvl Azerite gear still is in mythic raiding.

Ah yes, this genius response every time. Let this shit go live then deal with it for 2 years because they refuse to change anything in patches anymore.

Originally Posted by Adiction

I don't understand why they wont change the raid size. They see that guilds are dying left and right. They should just go back to 10 and 20 man for mythic and leave normal and heroic flex.

Balancing for 2 mythic difficulties would be a nightmare again. It was terrible the first time they tried it and likely be worse this time. 10 man does not give enough people to handle mechanics designs and ends up either getting the easy way out or punished severely.

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Originally Posted by Onikaroshi

As it stands now there is no changes to the M+ system, which means you could net a heroic level Azerite piece from just running a dungeon and every week you could get a mythic level one, raiding is not the only way to get those pieces, and Dungeons can offer more itemization variety.

Trinkets? For the first half of legion dungeon trinkets were better, it's all on tuning for those, they could swing that way again for BfA, making raiding just about worthless.

BTI says hi

This better not mean there will be one cloth set, one leather set, one mail set, and one plate set. Because that is lame as fuck.

Originally Posted by Chaelexi

Balancing for 2 mythic difficulties would be a nightmare again. It was terrible the first time they tried it and likely be worse this time. 10 man does not give enough people to handle mechanics designs and ends up either getting the easy way out or punished severely.

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BTI says hi

That's one outlier out of how many trinkets? and not even for every class that could use it. It was too powerful regardless, a high level one is still BiS for some classes.

So basically they will create raids with the sole purpose for us to run them 2 years later for transmog/title/achievement farming ? Sounds interesting. RIP Raids I guess.

Raid set bonuses are a pillar of MMORPGs. And no Blizzard, we don't give a f about your dungeons sets aka "Increases versatility by 300 against female demons with black horns" when you equip 2 shitty rings.

Wait... No tier sets? That sucks.

Originally Posted by DesoPL

Wait... No tier sets? That sucks.

why exactly? the bonuses you get from tier will be rolled into the heart of azeroth feature. The raids themselves will have themed "tier" (think Firelands) which I think is way better than dull ass tier sets. Tier sets haven't been interesting looking for a long time anyway. Let's also remember that when you have tier, you lock those pieces regardless of certain clear upgrades, but you don't wanna lose that bonus. Now you don't have to worry about it. It's a win win. Leave it to the community to cry about something that's actually a clear as day amazing change.

Removing tier sets is literally the worst thing i've seen them propose in a long, long time, and i've been playing since vanilla beta.

So, what, we're just going to get a cloth,leather,mail and plate generic set that everyone uses from the dungeon now? like its TOGC? so the entire visual identity of raids just gets boiled down to some gimmicky instance-themed universal armor set for everyone of your armor type to wear? no unique class themed set every tier? no unique set bonuses altering your playstyle and giving you big boosts to your performance that can only be gained through raids? is there anything else we can take away from raiding in this game and shove it into some lottery slot machine titanforge system or into 5 man dungeons? Can't wait to see every leather wearer coming out of the troll raid looking like some retarded voodoo gimp, whether they're a druid or a demon hunter. Really fits the class fantasy and makes those months spent progressing in mythic worth it so the ball gag on your gimp outfit that literally half the raid is wearing can be purple instead of blue.

If this tier set removal ends up being as bad as i think it is(which is always a safe assumption when blizzard does something), there is no way in hell i'm continuing to play in BFA. A boring, lame pvp centric expansion where blizzard is doubling down on titanforging, making m+ even more necessary than it already is, and screwing over raiding and raiders yet again by taking away even more of the very, very few unique rewards offered from it.

Originally Posted by meroko

why exactly? the bonuses you get from tier will be rolled into the heart of azeroth feature. The raids themselves will have themed "tier" (think Firelands) which I think is way better than dull ass tier sets. Tier sets haven't been interesting looking for a long time anyway. Let's also remember that when you have tier, you lock those pieces regardless of certain clear upgrades, but you don't wanna lose that bonus. Now you don't have to worry about it. It's a win win. Leave it to the community to cry about something that's actually a clear as day amazing change.

Unfortunately some people are knee jerk reacting like idiots, and not actually checking and comprehending on what is to come..

Originally Posted by Garoh

RIP raiding as progression... all aboard the M+ train!

Seriously though, tier armor was one of the only things keeping people actively raiding. Now, you'll see the boss once, watch the end cinematic, then farm dungeons for the entire tier until you're geared higher than the Mythic raiders.

This is a terrible idea.

I disagree. True progress raiders (whether hc or mythic) don't go for just the loot and tier set. They go for the kill, gear is an extra to help the progress of the raid team.

Personally I welcome this change and I agree with Ion's reasons behind it. Giving up 10-15 or more ilvls and/or an optimal stat distribution (to feel the spec smoother to play) for a mere setbonus is out of question for me (having crit and no haste on an item as prot warrior, just feels awful, not to mention the possible ilvl difference - stamina, strength, armour).

Raid tier set bonuses would be more desirable and useful if we would still have reforging and stats wouldn't matter so much on a single item. Also the multiple sources of gearing is fine to nowadays standards. Admit it, you yourself like to have a few upgrades on each week than waiting for a single item for months.

Not today Murlocs...but soon...

Finally, goodbye tier sets you will not be missed!

"lets wait and see!" "alot of knee jerk reactions here"
Guys you gotta understand: Usually when Blizzard makes a change that they think will be controversial they give assurances on what is and isnt going to change and are in-depth about them. For this and WPvP they are not answering questions, they are not giving assurances, etc. Its looking grim for WPvP communities, and for unique class sets themed around the particular raid tier. We've had 13+ years to figure out how blizz talks and thinks, and most of us arent surprised anymore when our "knee-jerks" in the right direction, and waiting and seeing only gives it time to be implemented and blizzard to ignore it when people realize it sucks as much as they thought it would.

Originally Posted by Sonol

I disagree. True progress raiders (whether hc or mythic) don't go for just the loot and tier set. They go for the kill, gear is an extra to help the progress of the raid team.

Personally I welcome this change and I agree with Ion's reasons behind it. Giving up 10-15 or more ilvls and/or an optimal stat distribution (to feel the spec smoother to play) for a mere setbonus is out of question for me (having crit and no haste on an item as prot warrior, just feels awful, not to mention the possible ilvl difference - stamina, strength, armour).

Raid tier set bonuses would be more desirable and useful if we would still have reforging and stats wouldn't matter so much on a single item. Also the multiple sources of gearing is fine to nowadays standards. Admit it, you yourself like to have a few upgrades on each week than waiting for a single item for months.

I've been raiding since BWL in Classic and I've mostly been going for the tier. Either be it stats, or looks. Now you can call me lame or whatever, but to me this was something new and fresh that kept me playing all this time. New raid, new character appearance, etc., etc.

If they remove that, especially the appearance and make it just raid themed for Plate/Mail/Leather/Cloth, like those 'transmog rewards' we were getting from some raids in Legion, then I really don't see the point anymore. If this comes through, you will soon learn how people actually care about the fantasy of the class instead of Horde/ Alliance BS they're trying to shove down our throats in BfA.

I used to love the set/tier systems in WoW and even D3, but over the years I've come to dislike them quite a bit as they are.

If any kind of set system is to be used, I'd rather it be limited to 2 and 3 piece sets.

Originally Posted by meroko

why exactly? the bonuses you get from tier will be rolled into the heart of azeroth feature. The raids themselves will have themed "tier" (think Firelands) which I think is way better than dull ass tier sets. Tier sets haven't been interesting looking for a long time anyway. Let's also remember that when you have tier, you lock those pieces regardless of certain clear upgrades, but you don't wanna lose that bonus. Now you don't have to worry about it. It's a win win. Leave it to the community to cry about something that's actually a clear as day amazing change.

But tier sets are in game since vanilla. And now broke it?

Bfa will be joke anyway. Glad that they announced legacy

Given that gear w/ Azerite bonuses (head, chest, etc) won't TF, but only stuff like trinkets, ring will. And given how Azerite bonuses on gear pieces are very important, they simply shave off few levels of RNG because there might be cases where you'd have to chose between 4p, better Azerite bonuses or preferably both.

In Legion community bitched that there's too much RNG when it comes to gearing, now in BfA they strip away it from certain slots, but people started bitching about lack of RNG on gear

So happy to see set bonuses go!
With bonus rolling it is very common to have 2-set or 4-set within the first two weeks of raiding now, and from then on you can only get item lvl upgrades on those 4 items - not fun at all. And with Legion it is even normal to use 2-set and 4-set effectively having 6 items locked down because of bonuses.

So yay for no bonuses in BfA, it will hopefully make looting much more interesting and rewarding

FUCK YES!
I absolutely hated set bonuses...
You are completely reliant on them because otherwise you can't even compete in damage, so you have to run all difficulties every single damn week just to get your hand on the best in slot ones.
@All the people whining about raiding becoming irrelevant:
Bullshit.

With the titanforge change you can only get max item level azerite pieces (which are by the way the replacement to set bonuses and legendaries, so they are important as fuck) from mythic raiding, rated pvp or mythic+ weekly chests.
Good luck trying to get the exact piece you need from a weekly random loot.

Blizzard is simply opening up the wow endgame to more than just mythic raiders, why are you so god damn bitter about that? Some of you act like the world is about to end just because they try to open the game to a bigger audience.

I don't know if you realize it, but the absolute raid expansion WoD, where the only endgame was high tier raiding, was a complete disaster. Blizzard needs to implement more ways to enjoy the endgame and they need to consider, that most players don't want to commit 20+ hours each week in mythic raiding, just to have a challenging and fun experience.

I despise this "Oh you cannot raid? Go do worldquests or something lmao" attitude. As a mythic+ player I can just as well argue, that I am forced to do your stupid raids just to get the god damn best in slot set-pieces.