Stop Hating People That Hate Daily's

[Crashdummy]

It is DEFINATELY an alternative. Anybody who's the least bit serious about this game was mixing rep rewards with pvp rewards to be decked as well as possible. Now that pvp items have two stats instead of one, albeit ever so slightly less, they are definately viable options. The quoted statement makes you look extremely foolish in my eyes. Resilience doesn't automaticly nerf your damage/healing/survivability by 99%. PVP loot is seriously good.

I'm not saying that PVP gear is worthless, i'm saying that its a lie that the items linked there are "only 6 ilvl worse" than the VP valor gear. And no, they are not alternatives, since they are significantly worse (albeit better than a blue one) and they have an absurdly low drop rate, even lower than some of the most exclusive vanity items in the game.

Maybe you should re-read his post, what i was saying in the post he quoted and then my reply.

No, its not a valiod alternative to the valor bracers, it can be considered a pre gear from it, not an alternative.

[Falkano]

I didnt forget jack, I don't do dailies to get valor to buy gear, the majority of my valor comes from LFR (as my guild isnt ready for regular heroics yet) and herioc randoms. The valor from dailies is a nice cherry on top. The only dialy I look for to get valor is the cloud serpant race which gives 5+ a valor token for 5-15 extra valor. ALso if you cue into the last boss of an lfr you get 90 valor for completing and then you get tossed to the 1st and 2nd boss on next cue but if you stick around for the last boss you get 45 valor for completing him the second time. If your group is competant you just scored 45 valor in 5-10 minutes for doing 1 more boss. This is how I cap out valor every week, by using my brain.

Your lies are that you can't get 470 ilevel without doing dailies and that you cant craft epic gear to get you into 470 dungeons. There are options out there to avoid doing a single daily and still progress through raiding requirements in a timely mannor. Just because they are options you don't want to do doesn't mean there are no options. Doing dailies are the most efficient way of getting what you want (Which is why I suck it up like a man and just get it over with) but it is not required by far. You are just hoping that if you complain enough Blizzard will just mail you a full set of epics and thats not going to happen.

God forbid you should have to get out of Orgrimmar and do something to get something.

Mate no offence but your talking bollocks....Please stop with the whole "god forbid you have to actually do something for your epics" crap because that isn't what it is about. It always makes me laugh when Blizzard nut huggers go with this line because it normally means they have no defence of the argument.

People are more then happy to put time into the game to EARN their items. Some people seem to think if you have no job nor life and put 10hrs a day into killing the same creature over and over = your more deserving then the guy who probably pays your benefits to survive. MOST people who have a job cannot put the time in that is required to get the same things that the guys who don't can get. Should people be punished for actually having a life? This is a GAME and it seems like guys like you and Aeneas have been riding it so hard for so long that you have lost sight of that.

So to repeat....you cannot get to level 470 without doing dailies, that is FACT. There is no way around it. You can do the dungeons to get to enough level to do the 460s. You can take the 4 items from normal questing and your still 11 items short. Now as I said before to get those 11 items you have 2 options. Either do the LFR once a week with items that drop once a week and hope you get something. So on the average of one drop a week that will take you 3 months before you can get into the next dungeon. Now again you may not like that but that's fact. The second option is to get the rest of the equipment from the remaining factions. That leaves Golden Lotus and August Celestrials. YOU CANNOT DO THESE FACTIONS BY ZONE QUESTS....Before you can do August Celestrials you have to get to revered with Golden Lotus. This is the main issue.

So you and Aeneas can shout it out until your blue in the face but your wrong. You HAVE to do dailies to raise your reputation in which you can then spend your valor points.
If what you both were saying was true do you really think there would be this much out cry over it? You really think this forum would be full up with posts daily by it?

As I said before some people are so blind in defending blizzard in everything they do that they cannot accept that they can make mistakes. This is one of their mistakes.
If you put a poll up asking do people think the dailies are fun I imagine only you two would say yes....

[Crashdummy]

God forbid you should have to get out of Orgrimmar and do something to get something.

God forbid that people do whatever they find more fun in the game, even if that activity is sit in Orgrimmar spamming dungeons...

Why does everyone need to leave the city all the time? To please the bad pvp players that can succeed in Arenas or Bgs and therefore like to group gank people or kill people while they are low in health?

Or maybe to please the people that use the bombs in the quest "The Enemy of My Enemy... Is Still My Enemy!" to one shot PLAYERS from the sky while they do the daily quests?

God forbid people actually want to enjoy the game and not be forced to do content theyd ont like to do...

[AeneasBK]

I'm not saying that PVP gear is worthless, i'm saying that its a lie that the items linked there are "only 6 ilvl worse" than the VP valor gear. And no, they are not alternatives, since they are significantly worse (albeit better than a blue one) and they have an absurdly low drop rate, even lower than some of the most exclusive vanity items in the game.

Maybe you should re-read his post, what i was saying in the post he quoted and then my reply.

No, its not a valiod alternative to the valor bracers, it can be considered a pre gear from it, not an alternative.

Actually read the post. Try and see beyond the "amg its pvp gear so its awful" I even took the time to directly compare the relevant stats, disregarding the PvP ones.

[Gurbz]

So to repeat....you cannot get to level 470 without doing dailies, that is FACT.

No, I'm sorry but it is not. If you were saying that it cannot be done AS FAST without dailies, then you would be correct, though not by much because of the Valor Cap. But there are numerous other ways to get gear without using valor at all, even if you don't count PvP gear (which is equal to PvE gear in stats no matter what you think). Just because they are not as fast or reliable as doing dailies for the valor gear does not make it impossible.

[AeneasBK]

How useful is debatable and frankly how rewarding is also debatable. Any one expecting this ilvl upgrade system to be a panacea for what currently bugs people is gonna be sorely disappointed I feel. Ultimately every time someone says doing dailies is optional they should also say "but don't expect to actually get valor gear this expansion"

I mean using Valor to get something useful. 489 gear is not what I'd spend VP on as I'll be getting that from my raid drops thanks. Similarly I'll cap on VP from killing raid bosses. And I will still be honored with Golden Lotus when I do, because I won't have done any of these optional dailies.

[Crashdummy]

Actually read the post. Try and see beyond the "amg its pvp gear so its awful" I even took the time to directly compare the relevant stats, disregarding the PvP ones.

I saw that after posting, still they are not alternative, they are still worse and they require a huge PVP farm, when Blizzard explicitely said that it was not their intention that PVE players have to PVP to gear up.

The point still stands, before Heart of fear, there are no alternatives to some valor gear like the wrists.

[AeneasBK]

So to repeat....you cannot get to level 470 without doing dailies, that is FACT..

Nope thats complete BS, the only facts here is that you don't fully understand gear in the World of Warcraft. Rather than getting upset with *us* over that fact why not try to understand the game a bit more...

[Falkano]

No, I'm sorry but it is not. If you were saying that it cannot be done AS FAST without dailies, then you would be correct, though not by much because of the Valor Cap. But there are numerous other ways to get gear without using valor at all, even if you don't count PvP gear (which is equal to PvE gear in stats no matter what you think). Just because they are not as fast or reliable as doing dailies for the valor gear does not make it impossible.

Ok then I am a Paladin, ret. Find me a full set of gear that will allow me to get into the 470 raid without having done a single daily quest nor have to pvp (as why should you pvp to do pve?).
If you can list me them then I will admit im wrong.

[AeneasBK]

I saw that after posting, still they are not alternative, they are still worse and they require a huge PVP farm, when Blizzard explicitely said that it was not their intention that PVE players have to PVP to gear up.

The point still stands, before Heart of fear, there are no alternatives to some valor gear like the wrists.

No your point is refuted utterly. Unless you genuinely need 6 iLvl difference in gear to kill a boss (lol). And theres multiple routes to farm this which are less time consuming than running the heroics lottery as well.

Sure argue you don't *want* to PvP for a gear up, afer al you don't *want* to do dailies to gear up. So don't, run some heroics get the 463 blue set, get raiding and kill bosses into Heart of Fear. You don't *NEED* 489 gear to do that.

You have no argument here, becuase you refuse to accept any counter arguement. It boils down to "I can do lots of things to improve my toons gear I just don't *want* to do them" in which case ... roll another toon?

What *do* you play this game for, might I ask?

[Falkano]

Nope thats complete BS, the only facts here is that you don't fully understand gear in the World of Warcraft. Rather than getting upset with *us* over that fact why not try to understand the game a bit more...

And same response to you "Ok then I am a Paladin, ret. Find me a full set of gear that will allow me to get into the 470 raid without having done a single daily quest nor have to pvp (as why should you pvp to do pve?).
If you can list me them then I will admit im wrong"

Prove it

[DeadmanWalking]

So to repeat....you cannot get to level 470 without doing dailies, that is FACT. There is no way around it. You can do the dungeons to get to enough level to do the 460s. You can take the 4 items from normal questing and your still 11 items short. Now as I said before to get those 11 items you have 2 options. Either do the LFR once a week with items that drop once a week and hope you get something. So on the average of one drop a week that will take you 3 months before you can get into the next dungeon. Now again you may not like that but that's fact. The second option is to get the rest of the equipment from the remaining factions. That leaves Golden Lotus and August Celestrials. YOU CANNOT DO THESE FACTIONS BY ZONE QUESTS....Before you can do August Celestrials you have to get to revered with Golden Lotus. This is the main issue.

So what you are saying is that you can't get to ilevel 470 without doing dailies unless you do those other things mentioned above.

You said you cannot get to 470 without doing dailies , FACT and then spit out how you do it. Is doing LFR in 463's a slower way to get 470 gear than dailies? Yep, but if you hate dailies so much then its your OPTION to do it the slow way. The next option is to buy gear off the auction house to raise your ilevel, but thats expensive to do right? Well you may not be able to afford it or even want to buy your gear but thats another way to get there without doing any dailies. You may not want to take the slow or expensive way but its another optional path you can do to avoid dailies. There are also professions which can be done to make epic level items like inscription. There is also epic gear being dropped in holiday events, my caster got 2 rings and 2 trinkets ilevel 472+. There are also world bosses like the SHA of Anger which drops like 6 types of gear for each class that -ANYBODY- can get a pick up group to do.

Frankly all you are telling me is that you don't like dailies, which are more efficient, and you don't even think about buying gear. You don't want to spend any more than a few days splunking dungeons for everything because a couple of weeks in the first lfr dungeons is unnacceptable.

So in FACT its not a FACT that you have to do dailies to hit 470, you are just too lazy or unwilling to use the other paths to 470 because you would rather ignore the FACTS and just complain about it.

AND that is ignoring the FACT that many people have posted on this thread that they got to ilevel 470 without doing a single daily, which you state is impossible.

[Gurbz]

I saw that after posting, still they are not alternative, they are still worse and they require a huge PVP farm, when Blizzard explicitely said that it was not their intention that PVE players have to PVP to gear up.

The point still stands, before Heart of fear, there are no alternatives to some valor gear like the wrists.

By that logic the Valor bracers are not really viable alternative before HoF, as you would have only just barely unlocked the ability to purchase them by the time HoF released.

[AeneasBK]

Ok then I am a Paladin, ret. Find me a full set of gear that will allow me to get into the 470 raid without having done a single daily quest nor have to pvp (as why should you pvp to do pve?).
If you can list me them then I will admit im wrong.

Hmm, lets go with

Head: Nullification Greathelm
Neck: Soulgrasp Choker
Back: Cloak of Peacock Feathers
Chest: Breastplate of the Kings Guard
Wrist: Bonded Soul Bracers
Gloves: Starcrusher Gauntlets
Belt: Heroic Dungeon Choice
Legs: Jang-Xi's Devestating Legplates
Boots: Jasper Clawfeet
Ring: Headless Horseman one or if you didn't Heroic dungeon ring
Ring: Heroic dungeon ring 2
Trinket: Darkmaster Gnadling trinket (Lessons of the Darmaster?)
Trinket: Coren Direbrew one, or failing that the Stormstout Brewery one (Carbonated Carbunckle?)

LOLOL 470+ iLVL without PVP or DAILIES.

Admit you're wrong

Hint: I'm also a ret paladin, (I just like World of Warcraft so I'm not botherd about playing the game... seems you don't enjoy playing the game I can't work out what you log on for if its not dailies PvP dungeons or raiding. You need VP epics for pet battles maybe?)

[DeadmanWalking]

Hmm, lets go with

Head: Nullification Greathelm
Neck: Soulgrasp Choker
Back: Cloak of Peacock Feathers
Chest: Breastplate of the Kings Guard
Wrist: Bonded Soul Bracers
Gloves: Starcrusher Gauntlets
Belt: Heroic Dungeon Choice
Legs: Jang-Xi's Devestating Legplates
Boots: Jasper Clawfeet
Ring: Headless Horseman one or if you didn't Heroic dungeon ring
Ring: Heroic dungeon ring 2
Trinket: Darkmaster Gnadling trinket (Lessons of the Darmaster?)
Trinket: Coren Direbrew one, or failing that the Stormstout Brewery one (Carbonated Carbunckle?)

LOLOL 470+ iLVL without PVP or DAILIES.

Admit you're wrong

Hint: I'm also a ret paladin, (I just like World of Warcraft so I'm not botherd about playing the game... seems you don't enjoy playing the game I can't work out what you log on for if its not dailies PvP dungeons or raiding. You need VP epics for pet battles maybe?)

OMG this can't possibly be true because it does not support the QQ'ers point of view! If you are a caster and need a 470+ staff there is an epic staff drop in Scholomance, small drop chance but at least its not a DAILY!

[Gurbz]

Ok then I am a Paladin, ret. Find me a full set of gear that will allow me to get into the 470 raid without having done a single daily quest nor have to pvp (as why should you pvp to do pve?).
If you can list me them then I will admit im wrong.

Main Hand (476) Starshatter
Head (463) Meteoric Greathelm
Neck (476) Helios, Durand's Soul of Purity
Shoulder (463) Acid-Scarred Spaulders
Back (463) Cloak of Failing Will
Chest (476) Ghost Reaver's Breastplate
Wrist (476) Bonded Soul Bracers
Hands (476) Ghost Reaver's Gauntlets
Waist (463) Grenadier's Belt
Legs (463) Pyretic Legguards
Feet (476) Angerforged Stompers
Ring 1 (463) Blade Trap Signet
Ring 2 (463) Firefinger Ring
Trinket 1 (476) Relic of Xuen
Trinket 2 (476) Lei Shin's Final Orders

Average iLvl 470. And I even managed it using only 3 LFR items and no holiday items. If you included holiday items it is WAY easier. The only thing you might have a hard time getting is the neck, because that is a fairly ridiculously rare drop. I thought about including the valor neck from the Klaxxi, since you can get to honored without doing any dailies just the zone quests. But I decided that I would not use ANY Valor gear at all.

[Falkano]

Hmm, lets go with

Head: Nullification Greathelm
Neck: Soulgrasp Choker
Back: Cloak of Peacock Feathers
Chest: Breastplate of the Kings Guard
Wrist: Bonded Soul Bracers
Gloves: Starcrusher Gauntlets
Belt: Heroic Dungeon Choice
Legs: Jang-Xi's Devestating Legplates
Boots: Jasper Clawfeet
Ring: Headless Horseman one or if you didn't Heroic dungeon ring
Ring: Heroic dungeon ring 2
Trinket: Darkmaster Gnadling trinket (Lessons of the Darmaster?)
Trinket: Coren Direbrew one, or failing that the Stormstout Brewery one (Carbonated Carbunckle?)

LOLOL 470+ iLVL without PVP or DAILIES.

Admit you're wrong

Bravo you just listed all the raid finder loot....(except you also listed holiday loot which is flawed because what if the holiday isn't on?!)

As pointed out the vast majority of your loot = raid finder loot. Which means you have no control in getting into the 470 raid. Your progression is 100% dependent on if those items drop from LFR. That means you could be there forever because you only get one shot a week.

So to quote the guy above technically that is a way of getting into 470. It isn't the fastest way but it is a way. BUT there is no gurantee that stuff will drop for you meaning you could get that stuff from 3 weeks of LFR or 3 years. Your 100% relient on a game mechanism of chance. No different then the lottery.
Being an old school raider I am used to that. But in todays world it should no longer be that way. You should not have to do something over and over for months in the hope something drops just so you can see the next level.

So what we are arguing about is time. I'm saying there should be a way to get to level 470 that gives you the option of doing something other then dailies or hit and hope once a week chances. Something that gives you the chance to earn items in a way that suits your play style without having been forced into another style. Hmmm how could they do that? I dunno maybe revert back to how they were for the last 5 years and have items as currencies and the currencies are what your farming not reputation perhaps?!

[DeadmanWalking]

Bravo you just listed all the raid finder loot....(except you also listed holiday loot which is flawed because what if the holiday isn't on?!)

As pointed out the vast majority of your loot = raid finder loot. Which means you have no control in getting into the 470 raid. Your progression is 100% dependent on if those items drop from LFR. That means you could be there forever because you only get one shot a week.

So to quote the guy above technically that is a way of getting into 470. It isn't the fastest way but it is a way. BUT there is no gurantee that stuff will drop for you meaning you could get that stuff from 3 weeks of LFR or 3 years. Your 100% relient on a game mechanism of chance. No different then the lottery.
Being an old school raider I am used to that. But in todays world it should no longer be that way. You should not have to do something over and over for months in the hope something drops just so you can see the next level.

So what we are arguing about is time. I'm saying there should be a way to get to level 470 that gives you the option of doing something other then dailies or hit and hope once a week chances. Something that gives you the chance to earn items in a way that suits your play style without having been forced into another style. Hmmm how could they do that? I dunno maybe revert back to how they were for the last 5 years and have items as currencies and the currencies are what your farming not reputation perhaps?!

What would be your ideal amount of time to get to ilevel 470 without doing dailies so you can get back to sitting around Orgrimmar complaining that you have everything and have nothing to do? 1 month? 1 week? 1 hour? Jesus Blizzard just mail me my epics already?

[Falkano]

Main Hand (476) Starshatter
Head (463) Meteoric Greathelm
Neck (476) Helios, Durand's Soul of Purity
Shoulder (463) Acid-Scarred Spaulders
Back (463) Cloak of Failing Will
Chest (476) Ghost Reaver's Breastplate
Wrist (476) Bonded Soul Bracers
Hands (476) Ghost Reaver's Gauntlets
Waist (463) Grenadier's Belt
Legs (463) Pyretic Legguards
Feet (476) Angerforged Stompers
Ring 1 (463) Blade Trap Signet
Ring 2 (463) Firefinger Ring
Trinket 1 (476) Relic of Xuen
Trinket 2 (476) Lei Shin's Final Orders

Average iLvl 470. And I even managed it using only 3 LFR items and no holiday items. If you included holiday items it is WAY easier. The only thing you might have a hard time getting is the neck, because that is a fairly ridiculously rare drop. I thought about including the valor neck from the Klaxxi, since you can get to honored without doing any dailies just the zone quests. But I decided that I would not use ANY Valor gear at all.

Firstly cheers for going to find the items.

So let's look at them
Starshatter - Hope it drops
Meteroic greathelm = hope it drops
Hellios, Durand soul of purity = 0.4% drop rate, hope it drops
Ghost Reaver breastplate = Crafted so is depending on you having blacksmithing or enough gold to buy it.
Bracers = hope it drops
etc etc

The same as before. This is an argument about time. It is POSSIBLE to get to 470 without dailies. In that way I am wrong. However that way would take you forever unless you were lucky.

[Crashdummy]

By that logic the Valor bracers are not really viable alternative before HoF, as you would have only just barely unlocked the ability to purchase them by the time HoF released.

Barely unlocked? I unlocked the bracers two weeks ago and i missed a couple of days of dailies because i was so, so worn out by them...

I dont think there is any point in the discussion, you may belive that hundreds of thousands of people are doing the dailies even when they dont like it and havent done dailies in the past expansions because they are idiots or you may accept the fact that most people are feeling forced to do them, i just dont care about what you think.

Hopefully, Blizzard will get into reason in time.