Chilton: Kil'Jaeden not in this expansion, only two WoD Raid tiers planned...

[MetroStratics]

Now we're asked to accept 2 in lieu of supposedly faster expansions? Forgive my cynical heart, but I fear we may get 2 raid tiers and expansions not near as fast as they hope. Pretty much the worst of both worlds.

No doubt, this is the concern. I've covered most of my thoughts here http://stratics.com/wow/wow-warlords...moving-forward

But to summarize:
They are being pressured from the top to make expansions faster. Ion and everyone else understands that if they are going to do a 1 year expansion, there could only be two raid tiers maximum.
But at the same time, everyone actually working on these projects realizes a 1 year expansion isn't likely. Adding more people makes things quicker, but its not exponential. Its not like you can have those 10 new people all work on the same barrel you are putting somewhere. Individual efforts still take place, and will always slow down the expansion.
In reality, the owners and higher ups will be delivered the bad news that the 1 year concept wont work, and we will see three tiers.
The scary part though, is that they must have already begun work on the Grom raid. Which means that if "things don't got to plan" then are we just going to get some random raid after it?

Its all quite murky, but nothing to be upset about. As long as they keep making raids as good as they were in MoP I will be more then satisfied.

[Kryos]

MoP right before it released they hired 80 people, I remember this specifically, and just recently they mentioned how it took them a lot longer to get the new people up to speed. It is a business first and a game company second always remember that.

It's a business first to hire people? It's their first MMORPG but Blizzard did several games before they did WoW and they hired people from Everquest, so they did not start without any clue how MMORPGs work.

BTW, if you hire people late in a project, it will make the project even slower. This is even a law called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks's_law

[Rizendragon]

Umm pretty much this whole thread is about how people think Blizzard is full of crap when they say the development cycle is going to be faster.

The only real question is does Blizzard authentically they will have a faster development cycle no how delusional that is going to be.

Or are they spewing that crap out there so that down the road when they fail they can trot other tired excuses like staffing problems, cutting out raid tiers, "doing it the Blizzard way" and making it perfect, or whatever garbage they want to toss at the customers feet.

In fairness they've added 80 developers to the team so there is a chance they can get them out the door faster. I just hope that doesn't ruin the feel and concept of each "faster" expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

Three raid tiers is the best. Ideally you'd get ~6 months of each tier. That would amount to each expansion lasting 18 months, which would be fine.

Only two raid tiers seems really short, unless the tiers are super long and challenging and can actually last a long time without growing stale.

Since the opening schedule of each raid tier is delayed by about 2 months then it'd be more like 20 months; which I'm still ok with.

[Nerevar]

Here are the important bits that you all ignore (as always)

Yep, In theorie. In practice this could look different

[Bathory]

What do you honestly expect. Less time before next xpac = less time in the overall expansion = less time for EVERYTHING within it.

[shadowstep]

It will be probably more like 16 months per expansion in reality if they are lucky, so 100$ every 32 months, which isn't completely terrible. I spend more money on weed in a year than I do on WoW so meh.

i'm ok with 16-18 months every expac, to me 18 would be perfect... three 6 month tiers with some minor patches along the way..

[Unholyground]

It's a business first to hire people? It's their first MMORPG but Blizzard did several games before they did WoW and they hired people from Everquest, so they did not start without any clue how MMORPGs work.

BTW, if you hire people late in a project, it will make the project even slower. This is even a law called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks's_law

Yes and that is what I mean, getting 80 new people up to speed is going to take a while and it had to be done regardless of where their patches/projects were.

[Pennoyer]

Here are the important bits that you all ignore (as always)

Blizzard works on the next tier during the expansion development. If they're planning for two raid tiers, then that's what you're going to get. A third tier at this point would likely be a pile of shit that they'll throw together TotC style.

[Kryos]

They should make tiers last 6 months, not 4 months. That way they can do 3 tiers in 18 months - no tier is overstretched long like SoO or ICC. 4 months is too short for many raid guilds. Just add 2 months before releasing the next raid even if it's finished. 2 extra months makes the tier feel a little bit overstreched but just a little. No big deal even to hardcore raiders. But you won't run into the "ok, here is the last tier, play if for 15 months in a row after we forced you to rush the raids before that" bullshit that is happening now. A new expansion every 18 months sounds fair to me. 3 tiers sounds fair to me.

12 months and 2 tiers... that will lead to cutting corners.

[Doombringer]

You really expect to get the same number of new abilities, new continent, new quests, new races when they have 6 less months? Everything will be less compared to older expansions. No more 2 races for one expansion. If a new class gets in, the old classes will not get much rework, less quests more Timeless Island grind-style...

It's true. Some folks don't realize there's going to be given and take.

Their larger team will allow them to work on more, and work faster... but you also have to consider everything that's "requisite" with an expansion. The environments have got to look good. NPCs and new models, all the dungeons and any launch raids. They're going to want these bare minimums and that will leave less room for frills like additional features. If the next expansion has a new class, expect to see fewer features elsewhere in it.

[laughtrey]

I think it's funny they will either have 7.0 out in 18 months after 6.0, OR they will somehow magically pull a third raid tier out of their ass.


They are constantly telling us conflicting information. First dungeons and raids are started during the initial expansion development, now they're saying it's possible we can get more dungeons/raids during the expansion, but they haven't planned for it yet?


Have they gotten to the point where they can crunch out worthwhile content in 1/4th of the time suddenly? Are they THAT confident with their big new team? I sure as shit know they aren't pulling a raid from the NEXT expansion and putting it into this one if they need to, that would make no sense.

[Tyrgannus]

What do you honestly expect. Less time before next xpac = less time in the overall expansion = less time for EVERYTHING within it.

Simple. We don't expect less time. It's been touted too many times and at this point it is the boy who cried wolf

[Deleted]

Let's hope some of these 80 new staff members manage to climb up the elite ladder of Blizzard developers and create some new, refreshing ideas in order prolong WoW for just that bit longer.
If anything one of the staff members should give these guys a proper kick in the nuts for allowing yet another content drought, this time being more diabolical and inexcuseable than ever.
The story department should get the biggest overhaul if anything. Pandas and alternate universes where the endbosses are related orcs... what happened to dragon aspects, kings of the unliving and elf-demon hybrids?

[Leih]

Blizzard works on the next tier during the expansion development. If they're planning for two raid tiers, then that's what you're going to get. A third tier at this point would likely be a pile of shit that they'll throw together TotC style.

Yeah, tacking on an extra raid tier at the end after the main boss of the expansion has been dealt with never works.

You know... like Sunwell.

[Pennoyer]

Yeah, tacking on an extra raid tier at the end after the main boss of the expansion has been dealt with never works.

You know... like Sunwell.

Yep, which came almost a year after the previous tier/'half-tier' (hard to characterize since it's all t6) had been released. I don't think that possibility is under discussion here.

[l33t]

Well, I'm not surprised, to be honest. Quite logical action for an expansion filled with "cancelling everything people wanted".

[Sweetpeaz]

It's worth noting that only three were originally planned for Wrath as well. ToC was an interim, rush job when it became apparent that ICC would not be finished in a timely manner.

And it was the worst raid tier ever.

They rushed that garbage out when many people weren't even farming Ulduar yet.

[Deleted]

No doubt, this is the concern. I've covered most of my thoughts here http://stratics.com/wow/wow-warlords...moving-forward

But to summarize:
They are being pressured from the top to make expansions faster. Ion and everyone else understands that if they are going to do a 1 year expansion, there could only be two raid tiers maximum.
But at the same time, everyone actually working on these projects realizes a 1 year expansion isn't likely. Adding more people makes things quicker, but its not exponential. Its not like you can have those 10 new people all work on the same barrel you are putting somewhere. Individual efforts still take place, and will always slow down the expansion.
In reality, the owners and higher ups will be delivered the bad news that the 1 year concept wont work, and we will see three tiers.
The scary part though, is that they must have already begun work on the Grom raid. Which means that if "things don't got to plan" then are we just going to get some random raid after it?

Its all quite murky, but nothing to be upset about. As long as they keep making raids as good as they were in MoP I will be more then satisfied.

If they add a tier after Grom i think will be the tier that should have been in place of Grom but with a slight difference so they can explain it.

[Iakhovas]

So they want to release expansions faster? Do they have ideas for expansions coming faster? Like new features every time? I am almost certain they barely found ones for this expansion and they turn out to be harder to implement than others, imagine what will be in the future then, less raid tiers + same long time between expansions.

For the love of all that is holy! Why do people EXPECT "new features" every single blasted expansion! there is only so much to think about until the game becomes a big mess of jumbled confusion. All they need to do now is just add more depth to the features they already have....Like sub races, more customization to the character via barber/tattoo parlor. They can do TONS of stuff with garrisons as well, and pet battles and the list just keeps going. I wish new features would stop coming if features we have got vastly improved on.

Same goes for adding a new class or races to expansions.....Sorry but I don't want to be able to choose from 15-20 classes and 30+ races, when they are already having difficulties with how homogenized the classes we already have are in the current game

OT - I am all for faster expansions if they can deliver, which is not very promising in their current state, but now that they've trained their "new" employees with WoW development maybe the 50/50 split will work to deliver current content as well as future content/xpacs quicker. They just need to realize they can keep tier progression for an extra month or two to help alleviate from the drought at the end of expansions.

[TheValkyrie]

And it was the worst raid tier ever.

They rushed that garbage out when many people weren't even farming Ulduar yet.

Anybody who was anybody was farming Ulduar easily by the time ToC was out. The guild I was in back then was super casual too and were doing it fine.