No I'm talking about the one thousand or so germans every year that suicide by gun. It might not seem like that a big of number but it happens in every country. Unfortunately here it is the number for of death by gun. I think we are around twenty one or twenty thousand per year. I think suicide by gun is something that needs to be addressed more than just trying to penalize people for lawfully owning guns.
This isn't and has never been about penalizing people for lawfully owning guns. It's always been about making it less desirable and easy to own guns. Suicide rates are really not the issue here. Although, without looking, I know our statistics on suicides per 100k overall are probably lower than the US due to the general lack of guns in Europe. The lethality rates of gun suicides is much higher than that of knife or drug related suicides.
But... that is a different topic, really. I don't have much sympathy or see the need to protect society from suicide by guns. That's a matter of protecting that individual from himself. If that fails, you have one victim that actually got what it wanted, so yeah not really concerned about that while talking in a thread about a mass shooting inside a church.
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there's nothing to debate about gun control, bearing arms is a constitutional right and the first politician that tries to deny that right is going to be starting a civil war. Even if hypothetically they banned guns, it would just create a lucrative black market trade that would run them across the mexican border. If the war on drugs is considered a failure then so would any war on guns be considered just as impossible. There's no answer to stopping people doing heinous acts if they choose to, much like there is nothing stopping people renting a truck and driving it through a crowd of people, it's a mental health issue.
That's actually pretty well known.. One third of the US households..
320 million people, incl every baby every elder people who certainly don't have any.
About 1 gun per person statistically. 1/3 of all US households have at least 1 firearm.
If we attribute 1.5 people per household, we have about 213 million households. One third of that have firearms, that's 71 million households. That makes it roughly 106 million people with firearms in their homes.
https://qz.com/1095899/gun-ownership...-three-charts/
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/...gun-ownership/
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...cs-maps-charts
It is really not hard to delve into the topic, and look at all the various data that's already existing.
Doesn't matter if the current administration effectively cancelled/prohibits any further research on the matter.
"The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."
I'm not sure if suicide is really the obvious angle of attack here. Sure, it's there, and hey, do something about it, because it needs to be addressed. But it's a tough sell to tell the families "We feel your loss, we will make sure that mental health issues are addressed, so we will treat potential mass murderers with more care in the future."
Couple things that jump to my mind about this...
1. You don't know who's going to suicide like that before hand. Good luck weeding them out.
2. Guns are much, much easier to regulate than mental health issues.
3. GUNS are tying them together. Occam's razor is your friend here, as well. It's in the name: Mass SHOOTING. Not mass random weapon related suicide.
What you want is immediate solutions, not long term medical plans that may or may not work out for you guys in the future.
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Australia imposed strict gun control laws.
And big surprise, it worked. Mass shootings and firearm homicides decreased sharply. We aren't talking about drugs, here. We're talking about guns. Drugs are a strawman.
Additionally, the constitution and its amendments can be interpreted different ways without repealing them. And I'd say the country's current interpretation of a "well-regulated militia," as described by the actual wording of the second amendment is sorely lacking.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
A civil war that would be so one sided, heck, Brazil would pity you even after losing to Germany 1-7.
It's not about absolutes. It's about reducing numbers. But extremist people really have trouble seeing the grey zone that makes 90% of the issues. They're so binary, really.
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Actually, I've always wondered why they're not taking it literally. A well-regulated militia is literally (sic!) screaming for more gun regulation. What you see now is the opposite of well regulated. It's sorely lacking regulation, that's why people see guns as a toy rather than what they are. Lethal weapons.
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...that's really not particularly relevant. Hell I don't know why people are bringing up suicide; I really don't think many people are arguing for gun control because they think it's the best way to stop people from killing themselves, or are arguing that it is the main goal of gun control.
Frankly I don't particularly care whether people kill themselves with a gun or by jumping off a bridge as far as gun control statistics are concerned; what those people actually need is mental help above anything else. So I consider people bandying out "suicide by gun" statistics either in support of or trying to negate the merits of gun control to be diluting the argument; I'd say even intentionally obfuscating it in some cases.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
You know that's nonsense, right?
It's an amendment.. It is meant to be changed according to the society's wishes.
That's a good point, but those are American weapons that would be traded back into the country. It seem to evade you that in order to stop illegal trade you go after the maker.Even if hypothetically they banned guns, it would just create a lucrative black market trade that would run them across the mexican border.
There can't be any weapons smuggled if you hold the manufacturer directly responsible.
False.. See above.If the war on drugs is considered a failure then so would any war on guns be considered just as impossible.
The drugs are made outside and brought back in. The weapons are made inside. Just got to prohibit them from leaving the country in the first place.
It is true, there's no stopping people from heinous crimes. However there sure as hell are ways to make it much harder to access the tools to commit the crimes with.There's no answer to stopping people doing heinous acts if they choose to, much like there is nothing stopping people renting a truck and driving it through a crowd of people, it's a mental health issue.
The US isn't the only country on the planet. But the only one with that problem...
Because it's the only one stupid enough to claim that there's no remedy.
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Well... not exactly. The suicide rate is not among the worst. It simply appears that Americans just use different tools to kill themselves.
Effectively the stats tell us, that whoever wants to die will find a way to do so.
"The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."
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Prediction for the future
If that is what it takes to prevent future tragedies, sure. Is the freedom to own guns worth the lives of 5 year old children?
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He didn't. He had a discharged because of misconduct or what it is called. He could legally own guns.
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Wrong. Check your laws.
It's not even about making it much harder to access the tools to commit the crimes with. You can rob a man with a knife just as well as with a gun. The key here is to reduce the fatalities, really. That's the only core point that's worth discussing at this point. Will it stop robbery? Nope, probably not. Will it stop mass shootings? It will make it a lot harder to take a gadzillion people with you. I've rarely heard of mass stabbings that had dramatic casualty rates. I hear of dramatic casualty rates in relation to guns every week. All of those news coming from the US.
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