Remember when Genn Greymane didn't watch the Horde cinematic for the Broken Shore?

[Thage]

Right now, my bets are on either it being a false-flag operation from extremists within the Alliance corrupted by the Old Gods, agents of the Old Gods themselves, or extremists from within the Horde (corruption optional but unlikely), e.x. the Desolate Council seeking to force a war to bring the Forsaken the final death elements within the Council feel is the 'proper' path for the Forsaken to take.

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Sure, I know that. But I shouldn't have to play 12 characters all the way through the class campaign to get the story or go read about it on WoWhead, etc. They could have worked around this with some quest etc where even though I don't know about it as it happens I learn about it somehow, later.

A cliff's notes quest where you have Khadgar or one of the notable class NPCs bring you up to speed on what's going on would be helpful, I agree. It wasn't until I played the Death Knight quests that I figured out what Maxwell meant when my paladin went to the Ebon Hold for the hidden artifact appearance, and he mentioned them owing the Silver Hand a huge favor.

[Shakou]

Sure, I know that. But I shouldn't have to play 12 characters all the way through the class campaign to get the story or go read about it on WoWhead, etc. They could have worked around this with some quest etc where even though I don't know about it as it happens I learn about it somehow, later.

Right I have no disagreement there and addressed one way they could have done that further in my above post. I'm just saying that we as people who play the game aren't actually tied down to learning the details of the story in that way.

One other area though where Blizzard totally screwed up by splitting the narrative up like this was with Alleria. We learn in the Marksmanship Hunter Artifact Quest that Alleria was captured by the Legion, and in the end we get her weapon but she's nowhere to be seen it's never actually explained in the game how she escaped and then all of the sudden she comes out of nowhere on Argus during a quest with Turalyon and later on we learn she's dabbling in void magic.

They kind of bit off more than they could chew with the Class Halls and we ended up with problems similar to what we had in Cataclysm.

[Exeris]

Ignoring the fact that they did by using alarm horn ?

Are we sure the alliance knew that the call valkyrie horn was meant to be an alarm horn, did they have any prior experience with it?

[Shakou]

Are we sure the alliance knew that the call valkyrie horn was meant to be an alarm horn, did they have any prior experience with it?

Did you try maybe opening your eye balls and watching the cinematics? Right after the horn sounds Varian and Genn look up at the ridge where Sylvannas was and immediately comment on their retreat, duh.

Either way, this is not an important detail, the reason it was brought up is because people like yourself that assume the Horde actually betrayed the Alliance at Broken Shore are ignorant and don't know wtf they are talking about. This was just a side point about that.

I realize you and thousands of other people knew that the story of legion is told in the class hall campaigns but mainly didn't bother to actually look into them so I'm posting this so all of you people who are too lazy to read the thread (where everything all of you keep posting here was already answered) will get a clue.

[Azelas]

They sounded a horn. It's not the Horde's faul that the Alliance is too stupid to understand battle signals. I guess you would casually walking over to the other army and chat with them about retread. Thank god you are not in charge.

the difference is the Horde was in a fucking cliff doing fuckall and could retreat easily while the Alliance was holding the vanguard, at the gates of the Tomb of Sargeras. Not easy to escape from the vanguard, especially when Gul'dan himself throws a fucking fel reaver at your ship while the Horde has already turned tail and ran.

[Shakou]

the difference is the Horde was in a fucking cliff doing fuckall and could retreat easily while the Alliance was holding the vanguard, at the gates of the Tomb of Sargeras. Not easy to escape from the vanguard, especially when Gul'dan himself throws a fucking fel reaver at your ship while the Horde has already turned tail and ran.

No the difference is you did not read the thread and do not know your lore.

You are adding nothing here that wasn't covered and sufficiently debunked. Read the thread.

[Talsar]

too arrogant to admit they are ever wrong, so naturally Genn Greymane is their hero I suppose.

It's funny that this comes not long after you were proven wrong about the order of events during the Forsaken attack on Gilneas, and rather than admit your mistake, you yelled at the person and put them on ignore. All this after making a speech about how rumors, left unchallenged, can become generally accepted. You'd make a great Genn.

I've read this whole thread and it doesn't say what you seem to think it says. You seem to have mistaken insulting people and shouting them down for debunking their arguments, however seeing as this is an internet forum I suppose I'm not surprised.

[Magnagarde]

Not much to speculate about here, which is why I'm baffled that so many people keep speculating over things that are crystal clear.

Alliance don't know the Horde retreated because they had to and to them it looks like they were abandoned on purpose in order to have them/Varian killed. The Alliance saw the retreat, not the reason behind it and due to bad experiences with the Horde in the past they naturally assumed the worst. This is all there is to it and any speculation about it is just pointless.

As a Horde player, I am pretty confident that anybody hating Genn over his hatred for the Horde is just delusional in their faction allegiance. The guy has all the right to despise the Forsaken and the orcs. He is one of a few select characters that have a properly written story, in which his reaction is natural and has a clear arc. Someone takes almost everything that was dear to him and it is only normal that his character reacts as he does.

There is absolutely no need to be negative about a character simply because it isn't on the same finctional side you're currently playing on or are a fan of.

[Hitei]

Not much to speculate about here, which is why I'm baffled that so many people keep speculating over things that are crystal clear.

Alliance don't know the Horde retreated because they had to and to them it looks like they were abandoned on purpose in order to have them/Varian killed. The Alliance saw the retreat, not the reason behind it and due to bad experiences with the Horde in the past they naturally assumed the worst. This is all there is to it and any speculation about it is just pointless.

I'm baffled why people think the Alliance's main problem with Sylvanas is the Broken Shore events and not her endless hostility in the northern Eastern Kingdoms.

the difference is the Horde was in a fucking cliff doing fuckall and could retreat easily while the Alliance was holding the vanguard, at the gates of the Tomb of Sargeras. Not easy to escape from the vanguard, especially when Gul'dan himself throws a fucking fel reaver at your ship while the Horde has already turned tail and ran.

Don't be mean they were just following the rules of Lok'tar O-retreat.

[Zyky]

A point everyone seems to be missing in here:

The entire Rogue Class Hall storyline revolves around the fact that, before the Broken Shore, Shaw of the SI:7 actually sent scouts to the Broken Shore to analyze the situation, whom the Dreadlord Detheroc murdered, kidnapped Shaw, and assumed his place while spreading misinformation about the Legion's defenses to the Alliance. After the Broken Shore, he fed misinformation about the Horde directly to both Anduin and Greymane, intent on setting the two factions against eachother.

That fact only fueled Genn's hatred against Sylvanas, which, along with most likely having a hand in posting Sky Admiral Rogers on the Skyfire, only served to ignite the fighting in Stormheim. Which, even though the Legion was behind everything, is an act of war.

I agree with this, however saying "I'm sorry" would have worked wonders. Sylvanas and Varian had respect for each other throughout the entire broken shore scenario...yet now its all fighting fighting fighting, war war war. Shaw should step up and advise his king properly.

[dadev]

Except in game I'm one of 12 CLASS LEADERS. A confidant and right hand of Khadgar and the Council. For my character never to hear this is silly. But it goes beyond this - there's a lot of stuff like this that very few people will ever really get to know because I'd bet that most people only play a handful of classes.

In WoW lore the Uncrowned are a highly secretive organization. Except than maybe by chance Khadgar doesn't know about their movements, methods or intentions. Class leader or not, unless you're part of it you don't really know about it. The corpse in the sewers is a hint to that.

Ya, what's what? People are too lazy to browse wowpedia, wowhead, youtube, or read threads before commenting on them?

See you're just bringing up a whole other factor to why dumbass rumors persist on these boards. People do one quest, watch one video and assume they know everything about something in the game, even to the degree of disregarding anything from the game that contradicts this.

This discussion isn't about the actual story of Legion (although point out what that story is certainly helps) so much as it's about people not actually knowing what the story actually is but thinking that they do. You do not have to actually play all of these classes to know the full story.

Yes, people assume that the story they see when they play their only character is the only true story and the rest is minor details. But mind you there's at least one valid reason to do it, RP. That RP game can even be continued on the forums.
I don't suggest that most folks are doing it due to RP reasons, the truth is probably the opposite (as you say), most people just assume that what they saw when they played their character is the absolute truth barring minor details. They're too lazy to check the full thing or they can't even imagine there are more facets to the truth, so they don't bother checking in the first place.
Anyway, that's what I meant when I said there's a reason. When Blizzard are writing this story they need to aim for the RP guys, because if you break the immersion for them then you immediately lose them. But on the other hand if you make it more complicated for the rest to find all details it's not as bad, because google.
However, this does not excuse Blizzard from portraying certain things in a stupid way that just doesn't make sense for anybody at all.

[Banard]

yet it's one of the main reasons cited at blizzcon for why there is conflict between the factions in bfa.

for theremore!

[GreenJesus]

What doesn't make any sense is that Mathias Shaw was rescued so why doesn't he update Genn and Anduin on the situation and what actually happened? And how could the Alliance on that gunship with a clear view of the entire battle not see the Horde being overwhelmed?? And no one on the Horde sent a guy with a letter or hologram (MoP showed that star wars holograms exist) to explain what happened? Does the Alliance not wonder why Vol'jin died? Did they not see the multiple space ships in the sky raining down on the Horde? It's bullshit and is a perfect example of Blizzard writer's inconsistency.

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for theremore!

Revenge for theramore was the Siege of Orgrimmar. Theramore is old news. Next time if you want to stay neutral, don't act as a port for the Alliance military to raid Horde lands.

[Azelas]

There is absolutely no need to be negative about a character simply because it isn't on the same finctional side you're currently playing on or are a fan of.

It's not even that. Let's say you take the lore to heart, which I find acceptable, I like it a lot as well.

But many times it's the same people that say Genn is an awful character and a warmonger that defend Sylvanas keeping tons of biochemical weapons stored, something even Garrosh didn't approve of. Like !?!?!?

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Revenge for theramore was the Siege of Orgrimmar. Theramore is old news. Next time if you want to stay neutral, don't act as a port for the Alliance military to raid Horde lands.

Orgrimmar still stands. Theramore is a hole in the ground.

How is that revenge? The Alliance was VERY mild in this "revenge" you speak of (which the Horde participated of as well, mind you)

[GreenJesus]

It's not even that. Let's say you take the lore to heart, which I find acceptable, I like it a lot as well.

But many times it's the same people that say Genn is an awful character and a warmonger that defend Sylvanas keeping tons of biochemical weapons stored, something even Garrosh didn't approve of. Like !?!?!?

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Orgrimmar still stands. Theramore is a hole in the ground.

How is that revenge? The Alliance was VERY mild in this "revenge" you speak of (which the Horde participated of as well, mind you)

Garrosh was taken down as Warchief and had to go through humiliation of a Panda court.

[Shakou]

And how could the Alliance on that gunship with a clear view of the entire battle not see the Horde being overwhelmed??

Oh damn I didn't even consider that. Looks like we found a definite plot hole!

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Yes, people assume that the story they see when they play their only character is the only true story and the rest is minor details. But mind you there's at least one valid reason to do it, RP. That RP game can even be continued on the forums.
I don't suggest that most folks are doing it due to RP reasons, the truth is probably the opposite (as you say), most people just assume that what they saw when they played their character is the absolute truth barring minor details. They're too lazy to check the full thing or they can't even imagine there are more facets to the truth, so they don't bother checking in the first place.
Anyway, that's what I meant when I said there's a reason. When Blizzard are writing this story they need to aim for the RP guys, because if you break the immersion for them then you immediately lose them. But on the other hand if you make it more complicated for the rest to find all details it's not as bad, because google.
However, this does not excuse Blizzard from portraying certain things in a stupid way that just doesn't make sense for anybody at all.

I agree about all of this. I think Blizzard should have found an interesting way to weave these vignettes as they are into a cohesive story. They had the best place to do that at the Broken Shore, and afterward leading into Argus. But instead they abandoned all development of whatever they were doing with that and ended all of the class related content with the mount quests. Kind of lame, that's a whole lot of story that most people will never know about.

You really don't even get half the story of Legion only playing one class. There is important lore in each of the Class Hall Campaigns that is exclusive to them.

[vertigo12]

Misunderstanding or not, the end result is that Varian died because Horde retreated.

Didn't Varian chose to be heroic instead of retreating like everybody else does or that was his only way to save the remaning alliance forces? Why blame the Horde when they didn't even force him to stay and fight?

[Banard]

Revenge for theramore was the Siege of Orgrimmar. Theramore is old news.

we will never forget! FOR THEREMORE !

[Magnagarde]

It's not even that. Let's say you take the lore to heart, which I find acceptable, I like it a lot as well.

But many times it's the same people that say Genn is an awful character and a warmonger that defend Sylvanas keeping tons of biochemical weapons stored, something even Garrosh didn't approve of. Like !?!?!?

I know, it makes absolutely no sense. It is clear those people either want to provoke others into replying to them or can't admit it because they want their faction to come out on top in some internet debates. Such ridiculous positions are usually sugarcoated into "opinions" in an attempt to give it at least one bit of relevance and to legitimize the mere presence of their posts.

What matters is that at least Blizzard and their writers know what is right and what is wrong, as was evidenced when Afrasiabi talked about Jaina during BlizzCon 2017.

[LordyLordy]

Didn't Varian chose to be heroic instead of retreating like everybody else does or that was his only way to save the remaning alliance forces? Why blame the Horde when they didn't even force him to stay and fight?

Personally I don’t blame Horde for Varian’s death. The Alliance is better off without the self-proclaimed ”High King”. Good riddance. Such a terrible character.

Just saying, that in the story, it makes sense that a lot of The Alliance might hold a grudge over Varian’s death. Alliance does not know why Horde retreated, and we will never be able to find out what would have happened if they hadn’t. From Alliance pov, Varian’s death is a consequence of Horde leaving them to battlefield.

Yes, Varian sacrificed himself so that others could escape, but many members of Alliance might think that they shouldn’t have had to escape in the first place. If Horde had stayed, maybe they didn’t need to retreat at all. Only the players can see the story from all sides, the characters inside the story can’t.