Mythic + and why you shouldn't expect to get invited with low score

[Deleted]

It's interesting that people think they're being shunned because their score is low, when in reality it's all a big lottery. The prize you get for winning the lottery is completing the dungeon.

Your odds of getting a winning ticket increase depending on how high the score of the player you invite is. It isn't about people actively shunning people with low score. It's about playing the odds.

I'm sure if you put M+ score on the X axis of a bell curve you'll be pretty close to the actual amount of players in each of the M+ score brackets, the higher the score, the fewer people there are. Heck, you can do this with anything - people's height, weight, iq, skill at any sports, any game.

Being good at one thing doesn't necesarily mean you'll be good at another, but no matter how perfect or imperfect the M+ score system is, that's the best system puggers have at the moment.

Sure you can get someone bad with a high score and someone great with a low score, but on average your odds are better if you pick someone with a high score most of the time.

If your score is average or below average then whenever you queue up for a group you're being chosen out of a bunch of other average people and some who've put visible quantifiable effort in their character using the best system currently available to players, so if 20 players queue up being average scored your chances of getting picked would be 1/20 if all scores are equal and much lower if there 2 or 3 people actually put visible effort into their character.

If you can make a better systems using the data that's available in the game then all the power to you - do it and if it's actually better it will quickly overtake or get adopted by other metric sites.

If you can't come up with something better and don't want to use the system then don't - make your own groups or join a guild and get friendly with other people who run dungeons, be good at what you do and you'll be guaranteed to be picked above others in no time. I find it hard to believe people who keep claiming they're from 15/11 mythic guilds yet none of the other people in that guild run dungeons.

The people don't even have to be in your guild anymore - battle.net groups is now a thing. Make one and invite people who you liked playing with and you'll have a solid group in no time.

If you're on a small server you can just easily abuse the system "Low pop server, easy M+ score, looking for carry". BOOM! you're swiftly climbing up the score ladder.

Unfortunately, threads like these to me sound more like "I want to be the special exception among tens of thousands of people who put similar effort in the same thing that I want to do". What about the other people if you're suddenly the exception? You get picked over them when the system shows you all as equal and they get declined always? Does that sound fair?

If you keep being average in the system that you keep shunning yet still participate in, then don't complain when people don't want to gamble on you when there are better odds to be had.

[Corroc]

I've done multiple 15's and couple 16's and I dont have score at all. Not all servers are equal.

[Achilles55]

It's interesting that people think they're being shunned because their score is low, when in reality it's all a big lottery. The prize you get for winning the lottery is completing the dungeon.

Your odds of getting a winning ticket increase depending on how high the score of the player you invite is. It isn't about people actively shunning people with low score. It's about playing the odds.

I'm sure if you put M+ score on the X axis of a bell curve you'll be pretty close to the actual amount of players in each of the M+ score brackets, the higher the score, the fewer people there are. Heck, you can do this with anything - people's height, weight, iq, skill at any sports, any game.

Being good at one thing doesn't necesarily mean you'll be good at another, but no matter how perfect or imperfect the M+ score system is, that's the best system puggers have at the moment.

Sure you can get someone bad with a high score and someone great with a low score, but on average your odds are better if you pick someone with a high score most of the time.

If your score is average or below average then whenever you queue up for a group you're being chosen out of a bunch of other average people and some who've put visible quantifiable effort in their character using the best system currently available to players, so if 20 players queue up being average scored your chances of getting picked would be 1/20 if all scores are equal and much lower if there 2 or 3 people actually put visible effort into their character.

If you can make a better systems using the data that's available in the game then all the power to you - do it and if it's actually better it will quickly overtake or get adopted by other metric sites.

If you can't come up with something better and don't want to use the system then don't - make your own groups or join a guild and get friendly with other people who run dungeons, be good at what you do and you'll be guaranteed to be picked above others in no time. I find it hard to believe people who keep claiming they're from 15/11 mythic guilds yet none of the other people in that guild run dungeons.

The people don't even have to be in your guild anymore - battle.net groups is now a thing. Make one and invite people who you liked playing with and you'll have a solid group in no time.

If you're on a small server you can just easily abuse the system "Low pop server, easy M+ score, looking for carry". BOOM! you're swiftly climbing up the score ladder.

Unfortunately, threads like these to me sound more like "I want to be the special exception among tens of thousands of people who put similar effort in the same thing that I want to do". What about the other people if you're suddenly the exception? You get picked over them when the system shows you all as equal and they get declined always? Does that sound fair?

If you keep being average in the system that you keep shunning yet still participate in, then don't complain when people don't want to gamble on you when there are better odds to be had.

100% this! very will written. Every crybaby on the forums that are salty for getting declined and think raider.io/wowprog/wowlogs/skada/aotc etc should be removed need to read this.

[HuxNeva]

The score ONLY reads from the TOP 100 in each bracket. Under that, you won't get a score cause this shitty sites can't read it. This basically means you are searching for a burger flipper for mcdonalds (something MANY people can do) in the top 10 of the world championship of burger cooks.

By using the m+ scores and nothing more to judge whomever you bring, Sure. Go ahead, this only means the rest of us doesn''t have to deal with your kind

In the queue I have 1 signal to go by unless I want to get all audit armory and whispers mode (which I won't, it's not a raiding guild application ffs, it's a casual M+), and that is ilvl which is a rather useless signal. With Riader.io I get 3 more: M+ score, highest recorder completed key ever, and highest completed key for the dungeon we're about to do. I'll use all I can get quickly to select applicants.
Even better, when I queue myself, I can see straight through the 'HoV +14 quick 3 chest' when the highest the pug lead has ever completed was a MoS +11. He might be leet on an alt, but I'll take my chances elsewhere.
What is your suggestion? Even Mc D evaluates their burger flipper applicants.

[Caprix]

Take your chance elsewhere if you like so, but you don't know that the pug actually only completed MOS+11, because as stated in the message you quoted, raider.io doesn't track most of the completed runs for a lot of people.

Still better than nothing or ilvl for you if it works for you, do as you like but don't insult people not playing on shitty servers and not farming 10 dungeons per day/looking for shitty server pugs just to be recorded/farming at 9am on reset day.

[Hctaz]

i made a new char, went to 962 the first week of argus, now im just doing random keys and im at 2.5k score - Nothing is hard at all. (random keys = w/e is fun. aka we play cause its FUN to play with eachother, and we're still capable of doing +23/24 keys).

Yeah it isn't hard, but it's also difficult to get into 15 Upper Karas to farm Eye of Command when you don't have a 2k+ M+ score rating. The rating system should be more precise. Like... if they have a low rating, how many times have they run that specific dungeon? Maybe they've completed Upper Kara 18-20 about 40 times. I think you would rather take the guy who has done that to your Upper Kara group than the guy who has done every dungeon on 15 1 once each.

The other problem is that only the runs which count as top 100 on your server go towards your Raider.io. On my server, the only day you can knock out easy M+ score is on Tuesday if you do it early enough. I think by the end of last week, all of the top 100 dungeon runs were 17 or higher. That isn't hard to complete, but it is impossible to get into a pug to do that. Tuesday is that sweetspot day where your 15s count for your score, but I'm not always available then. I raid Fri/Sat for a reason. If the system could keep score based on something other than official Blizzard top 100 leaderboards, it would be a lot better. I could probably three chest some 12s and get 2k easily. My score is nearly 700 and I've only been registered as completing 4 different dungeons. 9 more dungeons at 12-14 would probably get me over the 2k rating, but they will never count on the top 100 for my server unless I literally get them done 9am Tuesday morning.

[RoKPaNda]

I see very few groups actually checking M+ score tbh. If I'm slumming it in pugs I don't actually apply to those groups though because the leader has a higher than average chance of being a toxic shit that will whine and cry and have a huge hissy if even the slightest thing doesn't go his way.

[Swalload]

2nd Why is it you think you are entitled to a spot in a group with people, far superior to you in terms of experience and the amount of work they have put into mythic+?

Because when I manage to squeeze into a "much more experienced group" I have to tell them what to pull, what not to pull, fix their rotation for them, explain what is the right route in the dungeon to not waste time and give them suggestion for their fucking horrible talent builds.

The problem in this game is that people are SO BAD it takes them FOREVER to become decent, so they think it must be the same for everyone else.

Not the case at all, non-retards like me don't need to run the same fucking shitass dungeons 75 times to understand how it works but the entire game NEVER rewards good players, only time wasters.

[lonely zergling]

Just play your own key and make your own rules for inviting. Or buy a boost for token priece if you are too bad.

[Tr1n1ty]

Take your chance elsewhere if you like so, but you don't know that the pug actually only completed MOS+11, because as stated in the message you quoted, raider.io doesn't track most of the completed runs for a lot of people.

Still better than nothing or ilvl for you if it works for you, do as you like but don't insult people not playing on shitty servers and not farming 10 dungeons per day/looking for shitty server pugs just to be recorded/farming at 9am on reset day.

It tracks the runs that matter, nobody cares about a completed 14-15-16

[Leetbeartank]

So close to every raider right now is probably bad because they dont spend time in m+? Gotcha dude

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NANI?!
omae wa mou shindeiru.

I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but it's true. Every good raider does plenty of mythic plus because some of the best gear is from there (especially when you consider the state of WF/TF and their replay-ability, as well as how good the weekly caches are). If you consider yourself a good raider and don't do a lot of M+, you need to reconsider the definition of good raider.

[Caprix]

It tracks the runs that matter, nobody cares about a completed 14-15-16

Well i'm quoting something about an HOV 14. Btw right now the threshold on my server is more like +17/18

[Corroc]

It tracks the runs that matter, nobody cares about a completed 14-15-16

But still the talk here is people looking at mythic score when they are doing +15.

[HuxNeva]

Take your chance elsewhere if you like so, but you don't know that the pug actually only completed MOS+11, because as stated in the message you quoted, raider.io doesn't track most of the completed runs for a lot of people.

Still better than nothing or ilvl for you if it works for you, do as you like but don't insult people not playing on shitty servers and not farming 10 dungeons per day/looking for shitty server pugs just to be recorded/farming at 9am on reset day.

Never insult. And when we go with a partial guild group that out-gears the content anyway, we even actively take people that would otherwise have difficulty getting in groups. But when I solo pug, I usually tend towards those levels where I know I can hold my own, but not more than that. The 100 run limit is an issue Blizzard should address. I play on a small realm, so even by the end of the week a +7 will still be recorded. I wonder if people from popular servers aren't regularly picked up that way even though on their own realm boards they are not registered.

[Richardbro]

Tried to join a pug back in September and they said they were checking my mythic+ score and I just loled and left the group, and went back to doing mythic+ with my guild. I've cleared a +15 in every patch, don't really care about the mythic+ score and feel that it is another way to alienate the player base with a stupid score. Not only do I find it laughable but doing mythic+ with guildies and friends anyway is a better experience.

[PewPewArrowz]

I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but it's true. Every good raider does plenty of mythic plus because some of the best gear is from there (especially when you consider the state of WF/TF and their replay-ability, as well as how good the weekly caches are). If you consider yourself a good raider and don't do a lot of M+, you need to reconsider the definition of good raider.

Yeah because Method and Exorsus farm their asses off in M+ right now. Please, most people do +15 for weekly and never go back, you can't get a arcano crystal in any m+ and aside from some veeeeery few trinkets (that ironically are from Violet Hold and can only drop from the cache) nothing is worthwhile in there.

Example for how stupid your statement, the #1 team in the world has a rogue (3100 something score) that has a SINGLE item from M+.

[Deleted]

People "just wanting to finish their 15 should make their own group or join a bad group with low requirements. If they are skilled with low M+ score and they want to join good groups they need to increase their M+ score so people can actually see their experience. I'm not Prof X I don't know if someone is skilled just by them queueing so I play the odds. You have a 950 player with 2k score vs a 935 player with 450 score. I'm going to take the 950 with 950 and 2k score 100% of the time. Maybe the 935 players is a prodigy but I have no way of seeing that so he's out of luck.

If someone queues on an alt with 1k score but their main has 2k or something high I'll generally invite the alt anyway so as long as people link their battle.tag to wow prog or other sources I'll be able to see their highest score character.

To answer your last point, if someone wants to wait an hour for the "dream team" that is perfectly fine. Some people want to get 5 players and go asap and others want to construct the perfect group. If it's their group they can do whatever they want.

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Yes and no. They have to have been on the top 100 at some point in the week but they don't need to be on it at the end. If I run a +2 maw the second resets happen I'll be on the top 100 for maw and that run will count. If you don't want to deal with "the kind" of people that use raider.io good for you. No one is forcing you too. Just like no one can force the leaders to invite shitters with no experience to their groups.

I totally agree with you if you going for +17 or higher keys. But for simple +15, simple ilvl 950 melts everything in path.
With my example, I just pointed out that mere ilvl will clear +16 based on simple ilvl req, while that group still searched for players and wasted a lot of time. Sure, its their time, but totally unessesary for todays gear.

[glowpipe]

In the queue I have 1 signal to go by unless I want to get all audit armory and whispers mode (which I won't, it's not a raiding guild application ffs, it's a casual M+), and that is ilvl which is a rather useless signal. With Riader.io I get 3 more: M+ score, highest recorder completed key ever, and highest completed key for the dungeon we're about to do. I'll use all I can get quickly to select applicants.
Even better, when I queue myself, I can see straight through the 'HoV +14 quick 3 chest' when the highest the pug lead has ever completed was a MoS +11. He might be leet on an alt, but I'll take my chances elsewhere.
What is your suggestion? Even Mc D evaluates their burger flipper applicants.

Except it doesn't show the highest completed ever. According to raider.io and wowprogress my highest ever is like a 12. Even tho i have the achievement for 15 and we clear 15-17 chests every single week. Well within the timer and we often 2 chests 17 keys in our farming days. But according to raider.io. I have done a 12 and a 8 key. or something like that.

So basically when you see that his top is a 11 mos. Then that is wrong and he has probably the same or even better clear timers than you. But you know. You only want the top 100 i guess

[Hellrime]

m+ score in 2k17 LUL

Dude, 2k17 is the same amount of characters as 2017...

[Bearshield]

Except that your "score" doesn't indicate how good you as a player are, because you could have gotten a high score from being carried repeatedly, or a low score from not doing enough runs or simply not getting the best groups. If I as a tank take what I can get for M+ groups because I only occasionally bother with them and thus, have no score to flaunt and the dps in my group bail mid run, afk through the run, or just flat out screw things up for everyone, does that mean I'm not good enough to try again with a more competent group? I'm sure the answer many of you will give is that I should just learn to play and somehow compensate for the mistakes of others, and to an extent that is feasible. However there are 5 people in every M+ group and it only takes one to screw it up for everyone whereas it takes 5 good players to increase each other's score. That is why the idea of using score to determine whether or not someone doesn't "suck" is just as flawed as the past 8 years of using gearscores and achievements.