[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Deleted]

Well, I've seen the movie, I really wanted my money back, I would not say any spoilers, but this is not Star Wars, is something else. Cool CGI does not make a great movie. Remember that. I give a 3/10 for music and part of CGI.

[Krigaren]

Maybe. Had we began the movie with quick flashes of Rey training with Luke for a year, or had the it show time pass that way it would have been slightly more believable. But no.

Why would that have been important?

How are you perfectly okay with believing that Anakin can build and pilot his own podracer without being shown in a flashback that he was taught how to do those things?

Luke can pilot an X-Wing without being shown in a flashback that he was taught to fly one?

For the same reasons we can believe that Rey can do the things that she can do. Because we're told via the story that she can. The fact that you require her ability to be backed up with proof when the same is not required of the men in the trilogy shows exactly how and why the bias against Rey exists.

[Elim Garak]

Sure, but the Emperor was however not reliant on a backstory to be an effective villain in the original trilogy. The new trilogy however is meant as a continuation of those movies, so naturally people are going to have questions about the rise of the First Order, and Snoke. Especially since we went from having Luke and company supposedly save the galaxy by the end of the Return of the Jedi, to somehow having this new organisation that was born out of the ashes of the old Empire control the galaxy, with a leader that may or may not have a relation to Palpatine considering his knowledge on the Dark Side as a (maybe?) Sith Lord. People wouldn't be asking so many questions about Snoke if he was just a imperialistic leader with no affinity to the Force, yet was fascinated by the Sith and the last true Sith Lord, Darth Sidious.

However, now we're two movies in, and we know next to nothing about who he is and why he's done all of the stuff he's done. He is now just a rehash of the Emperor without the charisma or fun from the original trilogy, or the backstory that was later talked about in the prequels. They could have at least given us something in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi to make Snoke more than he ended up becoming.

We didn't know who Palpatine was and how he ended up being emperor, or whence Empire came from for 3 episodes.

First order still has a Supreme Leader and we know rather much about him. We also know whence the First Order came from, without much details but we do know - it's Empire Remnants.

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Even mainstream SJWs are shitting on this movie:

I wonder if Disney is going to back down on the "everyone who dislikes this movie is a racist woman hating troll" spin...

You can drop the "racist" and "woman" and it would be about right.

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No one read Rey's Survival Guide. She learned schematics, data and memory cores found with the scrap, she trained with simulators on the ships. She fixed plently of ships for Plutt and built her bike.

She had years to learn from the scrap of the biggest space battle of the Empire Civil War.

STAHP! She's a Mary and she will sue.

[Deleted]

Was he a Sith Lord? Maybe he wasn't a Darth because he wasn't a Sith? That is the problem because we know nothing about him and where he came from. The mechanics of how he died are not why he was a wasted character. You are just assuming things about the character and writing it off as if it doesn't matter, but it does matter because as it stands if you went back and edited out the character from both movies nothing was really lost and the plot could remain more or less exactly the same. The character served no purpose beyond being a red herring.

We still have a movie incoming. Snoke could be a Force possession for all we know. Heck, TLJ established that Force users can project themselves through the galaxy.

[Altrec]

Of course he was. It's star wars. He might not have followed the Sith Code to the letter about the official stuff, but who cares, it's not like there's a commission of Sith Commissars... And it's actually very Sith to violate rules.

I'm beginning to understand why you liked this movie given your propensity to just make things up to fix and/or fill in bad writing...

[Yunru]

Well, I've seen the movie, I really wanted my money back, I would not say any spoilers, but this is not Star Wars, is something else. Cool CGI does not mate a great movie. Remember that. I give a 3/10 for music and part of CGI.

A rebels series had better battles and story than this movie. Its just sad.

[Deleted]

Even mainstream SJWs are shitting on this movie:


I wonder if Disney is going to back down on the "everyone who dislikes this movie is a racist woman hating troll" spin...

So that random TV guy is an idiot. Has everyone forgot Yoda didn't want to train Luke at the first time and that the entire Jedi Council was afraid of training Anakin? So now Luke can't see his and the Jedi Order shortcomings and refuse to train a new generation?

Seriously, people really went into this movie waiting that butterflies would come from Luke's ass and restart the entire Jedi Order? Kylo Ren was result of Luke's teachings!

[Krigaren]

Except thats blatantly false...Jedi training involves combat training just as much as all else. We can see that especially well in Clone Wars serie, which is still CANON.

Combat training doesn't require the force. Normal people can train in combat just fine and be a match for a Jedi - see Jango Fett or Cad Bane as examples of non-Jedi who can take on Jedi and win.

The ability to use the force in combat, however, is something entirely different. Again, it comes down to being taught "you can do this thing". I'm also sure that there were plenty of padawan who, were able to figure out how to do things just fine without being specifically taught - like Anakin.

Rey, for example, was demonstrated as being a very capable fighter right from the get-go. Once she opens herself to the Force, it's not a huge leap to assume she could use it to heighten her abilities, even if it's not entirely conscious.

[Deleted]

Combat training doesn't require the force. Normal people can train in combat just fine and be a match for a Jedi - see Jango Fett or Cad Bane as examples of non-Jedi who can take on Jedi and win.

Everyone forgot about Grievous, it seems.

[Altrec]

We still have a movie incoming. Snoke could be a Force possession for all we know. Heck, TLJ established that Force users can project themselves through the galaxy.

I made mention of that earlier. They certainly could fix a lot of things with the third movie. I just have little hope that they will. If they do I will rethinking my feelings on this movie, but as of right now I can't help but feel incredibly disappointed.

[Nefarious Tea]

I stand NOT corrected. That's exactly why it's ridiculous.

It's quite obvious why he didn't notice. Figure it out already. It's very simple.

Oh I know exactly why. I'm just trying to make plainer the arguments of people who don't get it. I thought that was a fucking brilliant moment in the film. Snoke is practically creaming his pants in anticipation of Kylo killing Rey lol

[Coombs]

Why would that have been important?

How are you perfectly okay with believing that Anakin can build and pilot his own podracer without being shown in a flashback that he was taught how to do those things?

Luke can pilot an X-Wing without being shown in a flashback that he was taught to fly one? Rey went from carrying a stick to fighting like a jedi in 3.5 weeks, and was somewhat capable of challenging Kylo who had trained for years 3 days after she found a lightsaber. Just ridiculous.



For the same reasons we can believe that Rey can do the things that she can do. Because we're told via the story that she can. The fact that you require her ability to be backed up with proof when the same is not required of the men in the trilogy shows exactly how and why the bias against Rey exists.

Everything about Anakin in the prequel was an old man writing a bad story because he was past his prime. I hated Anakin more than jar jar.

I can suspend disbelief for flying the x-wing because maybe somehow he knew how to pilot crafts on Tatooine. Rey

[bledgor]

What is it with idiots and complaining about the hyperdrive collision?

I sure hope the same people also complained about the hyperdrive speed projectiles of the Starkiller base.

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That guy is a fucking idiot rofl.

"Hurr durr the mask was so cool." "

Weaponizing hyper-speed is literally retarded. Why would anyone build a big ship ever when you can just get the smallest possible ship to go light-speed and just get a droid to crash it into the destroyer/super-destroyer/deathstar/whatever.

[I Push Buttons]

What is it with idiots and complaining about the hyperdrive collision?

Why get in ship to ship battles when you can just autopilot a fighter on hyperdrive through a capital ship?

[bledgor]

Well did you complain about it in TFA also?

Yea, I didn't care for TFA also. You don't do things like this that make future combat illogical and past combat seem like it was run by fucking idiots.

[Aurrora]

Everyone forgot about Grievous, it seems.

To be fair, Grevious's combat abilities in the movie were a complete joke. It's only the two Clone Wars cartoons that make him threatening.

[Deleted]

Yea, I didn't care for TFA also. You don't do things like this that make future combat illogical and past combat seem like it was run by fucking idiots.

Every single Star Wars battle was run by idiots on both sides, to be honest.

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To be fair, Grevious's combat abilities in the movie were a complete joke. It's only the two Clone Wars cartoons that make him threatening.

Yes, but was still one of the best Lightsaber duelists the galaxy ever seen.

[Alduin]

Then got dragged through a mile of salt, if her wounds didn't kill her, rubbing that much salt into them may have

I actually think she survived though.

@Gabriel: You are right. She is on the ship and I still question myself how she got their as Finn rather stomps of and she is not seen to be carried to the Falcon. Not to mention Finn's rather disturbing reunion with Rey after Rose's kiss.

Weaponizing Hyper Speed would have been great if they would have loaded all troops on the Medical Frigate and Support ship and charge in the Star Cruiser within 5min into the movie. Would have spared this unnecessary long chase for nothing.

PS: Screenrant has a nice summary of why the movie felt disappointing to most.
PPS: Space battles have always been bad in Star Wars universe (except for the Rebels TV series in some parts) but TLJ just put another nail in the coffin. The Star Destroyers are kinda useless, the First Order does not utilize their Fighters at all and lose both capital ships to really stupid manouvers. When you compare the TFA and TLJ scene to what Han says on Hyperspeed travel in ANH and ESB, that even small meteroids could put a ship into serious danger then one could expect that a 60km large Mega Star Destroyer would withstand such "accidental" hyperspeed jump.

--edited post due to misinformation from my side

[Deleted]

Weaponizing Hyper Speed would have been great if they would have loaded all troops on the Medical Frigate and Support ship and charge in the Star Cruiser within 5min into the movie. Would have spared this unnecessary long chase for nothing.

They held strongly to the hope that some allies would come to rescue them. Desperation leads to that.

[Rhaide]

Why would that have been important?

How are you perfectly okay with believing that Anakin can build and pilot his own podracer without being shown in a flashback that he was taught how to do those things?

Luke can pilot an X-Wing without being shown in a flashback that he was taught to fly one?

For the same reasons we can believe that Rey can do the things that she can do. Because we're told via the story that she can. The fact that you require her ability to be backed up with proof when the same is not required of the men in the trilogy shows exactly how and why the bias against Rey exists.

Rey is my favorite protagonist in any SW movie so far, so you can toss sexism out in my case without too much trouble. She's a complete badass and I love her character. That being said, your argument is flawed badly.

The comparisons you made were different situations, in both cases you referred to, the majority of the task at hand was jedi vs average joe. Being attuned to the force is shown to grant greater aptitude at nearly any task so it makes sense that Anakin and Luke would be able to do better than normal people especially with training, here's a more reasonable breakdown of your examples:

Luke piloting X-Wing with 'no training':
Here's evidence he's already a good pilot, direct from Episode IV:
"Luke: It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters."
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/T-16_skyhopper

The T-16 is a ship with controls NEARLY IDENTICAL with an X-Wing, and Luke was an excellent pilot (you would have to be to bullseye something 2 meters in size while traveling at the types of speeds they are talking about while piloting). So he already had experience, quite a bit actually.

Anakin podracing without being taught:
Anakin was a mechanical prodigy and built his own podracer at an incredibly young age, and got tons of experience piloting it. Again, his natural aptitude, experience, and force sensitivity easily explains how he can beat normal opponents
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Anaki...r%27s_Podracer

Rey generally wrecking shit all over the place:
I think there are some legitimate complaints about her powers, but many are overblown, let's go through them (green for things that weren't unreasonable, red for potentially unreasonable powers):

-She beat Kylo at the end of TFA. Bowcaster bolts are powerful, no seriously, like they sent storm troopers like 30 feet through the air when they hit. Kylo took one to the abdomen without even going down. He's even beating his own wound during the fight with Rey in an attempt to increase his power through pain and rage to make up for the obvious weakness overtaking him.

-She has reasonable aptitude with a lightsaber with little to no training. She is shown to be very apt with a stave, she defended herself with her stick effectively in TFA and has been shown to be acrobatic and agile. It's not unreasonable to assume she has some crossover skill with a blade, but it's clear she is no Jedi Weaponmaster.

-Rey used the jedi mind trick in TFA. This is problematic, the Jedi Mind Trick is one of the tougher Jedi force techniques, many masters never use it as effectively as she did. Based on what we've seen previously, force techniques generally require intense training; how long did it take Luke to learn to lift a ship out of the swamp at Dagobah? And Rey can straight up dominate someone's mind with no training, preparation, or idea of how to do it? That's too far out there.

-Rey is an incredible pilot. This is also problematic... it makes sense she's a great mechanic, she's a scavenger,
so it makes sense that she knows how things work. However, that shouldn't give her more than a synergistic bump to her piloting ability.
What she did was literally like being a master sailor without ever touching water (unless I'm missing something, she never left Jakku once she was left there, so it's presumable she has no experience in space). It's not unreasonable to assume she has flown ship-type vehicles in atmosphere a few times on Jakku, but piloting in space is a different beast... and with aptitude enough to impress Solo makes this a bit unbelievable.

I guess those are the only major sticking points I have at the moment - but she definitely does kind of feel like she's in danger of becoming the Star Wars equivalent to Superman... it's a tad worrying that she may be so powerful that it doesn't feel like she's ever really in danger. But I don't think we've reached that point yet.