[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Cosmic Janitor]

Spoilers included, you have been warned. Why the fuck are you even here if you care about something like that?!

I kinda hope that Abrams shits on all the open plots that Rian left, as much as Rian shat on Abrams'. Not using this to kill off the character of Leia when they literally had the setup for it already filmed and could have dodged that cringy scene, is like leaving another giant turd for the next director to pick up.. I can't want for the uncanny Leia CGI, only to kill her off then.

While I disliked the carbon copy of a new hope and our empowered mary sue, overall I still enjoyed TFA alot more than the TLJ. It just all felt off to me, be it the portrayal of some characters, the pacing (that side-adventure..), the enormous amount of plot holes.. omg the plot holes and inconsistencies. The graphics were nice though, so it currently ranks on the same level as transformer films for me. Nice too look at if you can turn off your brain for 2.5 hours, on a DVD you could also easily skip 20-30 minutes of the film and you wouldn't miss anyrthing.

[Kathandira]

I kinda hope that Abrams shits on all the open plots that Rian left, as much as Rian shat on Abrams'. Not using this to kill off the character of Leia when they literally had the setup for it already filmed and could have dodged that cringy scene, is like leaving another giant turd for the next director to pick up..

I admit that I don't know much about how movies are made. But why is that the Director gets to basically write the story? Isn't that what the writers are for? How is it tha tthe director gets so much say in how the story is written?

[Nefarious Tea]

*musings on hyperspace*

The thing is, in Episode IV, Han Solo says that without a navicomputer you'd "bounce too close to a supernova, or fly right through a star, and that'd end your trip real quick."

Even subspace in Star Trek is still connected to reality; are all the dimensions in real life cut off from each other? No they are not. Even theorized higher dimensions with insane curvature and such are still connected to the three we know, even if we can't see/interact with them from this side.

The Gallofree Yards medium transport (the same ones used in episode 5) that crashes into Vader's star destroyer at the end of Rogue One only completely bounces off because it never actually made it to hyperspace. It hadn't made the jump when Vader's ship drops out. Then you just have classical mechanics saying a small, unarmored transport ship isn't going to survive a collision with a star destroyer. It would be like crashing into a moving transport truck while riding a bicycle. You lose, end of story.

Much of the reason that Holdo's kamikazi run worked is that a) the First Order was paying too much attention to the transports, b) Hux is an idiot and didn't think the Resistance would waste their last capital ship until it was too late, and c) the ship didn't hit them already in hyperspace, it hit mid jump. It's probably going a significant fraction of the speed of light, but still a little slower.

Had I to theorize, the reason this isn't normally used offensively has nothing to do with ship mass (as people are arguing), although a larger ship obviously will cause more damage. It's that you can't control that damage. In battle in a planet's orbit, damage caused a hyperdrive malfunction in a Republic capital ship and it activated the drive, ploughing into said planet through hyperspace. The planet was literally broken in half. I did rough, napkin math, of the forces involved with the Raddus striking Snoke's ship like that at that speed and there is every reason to suspect that Holdo got extremely lucky that the blast wave didn't backlash and destroy the Resistance as well.

There's also this:

"Large objects in normal space cast "mass shadows" in hyperspace, thus hyperspace jumps required accurate plotting to avoid collisions, which were fatal.

Later technologies could pull vessels out of hyperspace: for instance, interdiction fields created gravitational shadows, simulating mass, in the path of an oncoming vessel, yanking the vessel out of hyperspace.[4] Imperial technologists developed the widely used Interdictor cruisers and their various sub-models, one of the most effective interdiction technologies.[3]"

And that's from the Canon tab of Wookieepedia. You can't use hyperspace as a weapon when the built-in automatic safety systems on your navicomputer drop your ship out if there's a gravity well, which can be faked by another ship. It's unlikely the First Order possessed such technology or they would have used it (certainly the fleet from Ep. VIII didn't; they may have had other ships elsewhere that can) instead of Hux ordering them to frantically fire on the Raddus before Holdo could complete the calculations on the navicomputer.

[Elim Garak]

Not using this to kill off the character of Leia when they literally had the setup for it already filmed

Leia was an important character who needed to be there at the end for Luke's resolution. Not to mention they filmed it before she died it would've been disrespectful to cut her out.

[Nefarious Tea]

We already do, most military ships have their combat capabilities controlled from deep within the ship in the Combat Information Center. The bridge is basically just there to make it easier to navigate by sight and, as you say, its a commanding position for the captain. If necessary they can control the ship from the CIC if the bridge is lost.

I didn't know that, that's interesting. And indeed, Holdo sure as shit wasn't controlling the Raddus from the bombed-out bridge that saw nearly 100% losses of the Resistance's brass. It clearly had at least one secondary control center.

[ELYPOP]

What I'm curious about is how Holdo could do the hyperspace jump when the flagship was on critical fuel already/the majority of it had been transferred to the escape ships?

[Cosmic Janitor]

*hyperspeed talk*

Frankly, be that as it may, what exactly is stopping anyone from weaponizing this by building very heavy (say tungsten) torpedo "ships" with hyperspace capability and use them as fucking planet/star-ship busters. Even if the rebels were not able to use them, the bad gus have dreadnaughts with enough space to fit a couple of these and no larger enemy ship would ever be challenge again. That is just by going what is already in the films, completely ignoring the simple energy math of how much boom you'd get simply by firing a couple tons worth of hypersapce drive alone on a target.

[Altrec]

http://www.starwars.com/databank/biggs-darklighter

Tell me what it says.

The academy that was mentioned in the movies may or may not be the imperial academy mentioned on that site and is not really the point. The statement that started this conversation was that Luke wanted to join the empire and that actually isn't true. The backstories of bit characters are so convoluted and have so many retcons at this point everyone is right and wrong.

[Deleted]

incl spoilers

[Independent voter]

Question: do you think JJ Abrams would've done it better?

[Deleted]

What I'm curious about is how Holdo could do the hyperspace jump when the flagship was on critical fuel already/the majority of it had been transferred to the escape ships?

Easiest explanation, the hyperspace engine consumes fuel in hyperspace to. Hence they could only have seconds of fule left for the hyperspace engine and still make the raming attack.

As I will point out earlier it is stupid... if you can "hyper-ram" and destroy half a fleet outside effective cannon range, everyone will do it and have purpose-built "hyper-ram" ship.

[Fayolynn]

How's that any different from the one in a million chance of landing a proton torpedo in exactly the right spot to blow up a space station?

Well for starters it requires the enemy to have their gravity well projectors off to allow the maneuver.

[Deleted]

Question: do you think JJ Abrams would've done it better?

Yes... there will be no philosophical Luke is a broken coward guy, but Luke the hero who save the day before going down in a heroic fighting after literally broken half of the knight of Ren and force Snoke to flee....

But I think we would have missed the intresting Rey/Kylo chatt....

[PACOX]

Question: do you think JJ Abrams would've done it better?

He wouldve just recreated Empire.

[Ivanstone]

Yes... there will be no philosophical Luke is a broken coward guy, but Luke the hero who save the day before going down in a heroic fighting after literally broken half of the knight of Ren and force Snoke to flee....

How does that make a better movie? It makes for a very predictable one. Not that Last Jedi wasn't predictable but at least did a few things that I wasn't expecting.

[Nefarious Tea]

Frankly, be that as it may, what exactly is stopping anyone from weaponizing this by building very heavy (say tungsten) torpedo "ships" with hyperspace capability and use them as fucking planet/star-ship busters. Even if the rebels were not able to use them, the bad gus have dreadnaughts with enough space to fit a couple of these and no larger enemy ship would ever be challenge again. That is just by going what is already in the films, completely ignoring the simple energy math of how much boom you'd get simply by firing a couple tons worth of hypersapce drive alone on a target.

Easiest explanation, the hyperspace engine consumes fuel in hyperspace to. Hence they could only have seconds of fule left for the hyperspace engine and still make the raming attack.

As I will point out earlier it is stupid... if you can "hyper-ram" and destroy half a fleet outside effective cannon range, everyone will do it and have purpose-built "hyper-ram" ship.

Because gravity well projectors that prevent ships from entering hyperspace AND can pull ships out of hyperspace are a thing? And not just in the EU. Interdictor-class star destroyers are canon, because they show up in the Tarkin novel (published after the Disney takeover), and more than once on-screen in Rebels:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Inter...estroyer/Canon

The only reason it worked here is because Hux was too busy having an orgasm from firing on the unarmed and unshielded transports to notice what Holdo was doing until it was far, far too late.

[Elim Garak]

Frankly, be that as it may, what exactly is stopping anyone from weaponizing this by building very heavy (say tungsten) torpedo "ships" with hyperspace capability and use them as fucking planet/star-ship busters.

Because they already have weapons that do EXACTLY THAT. Why build a stupid yuge-ass hyperspace torpedo? That's like a million steps backwards from Death Star or Starkiller. But if you don't have a Death Star level of weapon lying around in your pockets - you could use a heavy cruiser in a suicide hyperspace jump attack - if you are THAT desperate, that is.

Sometimes It seems that people refuse to think.

[Elim Garak]

I found it to be a nice little twist that Leia lives and Luke does not.

It's poetry of life, women outlive men.

[Nefarious Tea]

I found it to be a nice little twist that Leia lives and Luke does not.

Filming on Ep. VIII had already finished before Carrie Fisher passed away. If she was still alive, would that have actually been a twist in any way? Characters are not their actors and vice-versa. It was only a twist because you knew Carrie Fisher was dead and you thus also expected her character to die.

[Fayolynn]

Question: do you think JJ Abrams would've done it better?

Yes, because continuity of directors is a good thing for a trilogy. It helps keep the tone pacing ect similar between the movies.