How will Darkspear "survive" inclusion of the Zandalari in the Horde?

[Maljinwo]

But current in-game tauren are from the Bloodhoof clan. We've always just called them tauren or troll because no other tribe/clan was included yet. Now that more are included we should distinguish them by including tribe/clan name.

Tauren are actually from many different tribes:
Bloodhoof, Ragetotem, Dawnstrider, Runetotem, Highmountain (not the same as their Broken Isles counterpart), Skychaser, Thunderhorn, Cloudsong, Eagletalon, Mistrunner, Stonehoof, Wildmane, Winterhoof, Stonespire, Cliffwalker, Dawnchaser and Grimtotem (led by Jevan)

The same applies to the Highmountain Tauren, as they are Highmountain, Bloodtotem, Rivermane and Skyhorn

[Maxilian]

Well if they go the same way it went with the Highmountain Taurens and the Nightborne, we may see the Darkspear trolls become the main connection of the horde for the Zandaliri (like how the HM taurens have the Taurens and the NB have the BE).

[Techno-Druid]

Tauren are actually from many different tribes:
Bloodhoof, Ragetotem, Dawnstrider, Runetotem, Highmountain (not the same as their Broken Isles counterpart), Skychaser, Thunderhorn, Cloudsong, Eagletalon, Mistrunner, Stonehoof, Wildmane, Winterhoof, Stonespire, Cliffwalker, Dawnchaser and Grimtotem (led by Jevan)

Are the Dawnchasers still in Pandaria? Because it would be cool if they eventually became the 'monk/chi tribe' of tauren.

The same applies to the Highmountain Tauren, as they are Highmountain, Bloodtotem, Rivermane and Skyhorn

It would be cool if the Darkspears could integrate the Shatterspears, Skullsplitters, Bloodscalps and Gurubashi into the Horde under their banner. I just hope that if Blizzard ever did this they wouldn't water down the xenophobic, spartan culture of the other jungle trolls. They're basically Warsong or Bloodtotems x10.

[Maljinwo]

It would be cool if the Darkspears could integrate the Shatterspears, Skullsplitters, Bloodscalps and Gurubashi into the Horde under their banner. I just hope that if Blizzard ever did this they wouldn't water down the xenophobic, spartan culture of the other jungle trolls. They're basically Warsong or Bloodtotems x10.

The thing is, Darkspears (or at least dring Vol'jin's reign) forsook the dreams of conquest. Not only because of their allegiance to the Horde, but also because Vol'jin understood that Troll Empires would fall as they didn't depend on their faith but on their dreams of emulating the old Zandalari 'greatness'.

The spartan and xenophobic culture of the other tribes would be extremely hard to manipulate and it could easily bring down the Darkspear with them unless tempered

[Maxilian]

The thing is, Darkspears (or at least dring Vol'jin's reign) forsook the dreams of conquest. Not only because of their allegiance to the Horde, but also because Vol'jin understood that Troll Empires would fall as they didn't depend on their faith but on their dreams of emulating the old Zandalari 'greatness'.

The spartan and xenophobic culture of the other tribes would be extremely hard to manipulate and it could easily bring down the Darkspear with them unless tempered

Well many people presume that the Zandalari leader is going to be changing soon (most likely to his daughter), that may change the "conquering ideals" of the Zandalari

[Psychotrip]

Damn, reading through this is actually pretty concerning and well said. What the heck is Blizzard even going to do with Darkspear? Why would literally anyone play one over a zandalari? I'm not trying to hate. I love the darkspear, but Blizzard has barely done a thing to develop or to establish a reason to play one as it is. Now we're faced with "troll" and "better troll". Do you guys think Blizzard will do anything at all to address this?

[Dagoth Ur]

Damn, reading through this is actually pretty concerning and well said. What the heck is Blizzard even going to do with Darkspear? Why would literally anyone play one over a zandalari? I'm not trying to hate. I love the darkspear, but Blizzard has barely done a thing to develop or to establish a reason to play one as it is. Now we're faced with "troll" and "better troll". Do you guys think Blizzard will do anything at all to address this?

Well at least I was wrong about one thing! Rokhan isn't as irrelevant as I was afraid he'll be and is getting a pretty decent chunk of spotlight as far as I've seen. Whether this will lead to something or not I guess we still don't know.

Also there's still that bit about Vol'jin's spirit mumbo jumbo we have no clue about yet.

[Darkeon]

Tauren have been part of the Horde since its inception and has had a hoof in the modern history of Warcraft, Highmountain have been living in solitude.
Draenei have a much deeper history than the Lightforged, not a single Lightforged has even been to Draenor which crafted a lot of Draenei history.
Dark Iron Dwarves are skinnier magic crazed Dwarves, a real Dwarf is a heavily armoured whirlwind of death and steel, a King under the mountain.

You are talking about Lore while the other poster is clearly talking from a game-play standpoint first and foremost.

Apples to Oranges.

[Psychotrip]

Well at least I was wrong about one thing! Rokhan isn't as irrelevant as I was afraid he'll be and is getting a pretty decent chunk of spotlight as far as I've seen. Whether this will lead to something or not I guess we still don't know.

Also there's still that bit about Vol'jin's spirit mumbo jumbo we have no clue about yet.

Do we know what's going on with Rokhan? And have we learned anything more about Vol'jin?

I really hope Blizzard does something for the Darkspear to solidify their place in the Horde. Of course the Zandalari are the leaders of the troll people, but that doesn't mean the Darkspear can't have something to distinguish them. Hell, why not give them Zul'Gurub? Make them the new leaders of the Jungle Trolls. This could be a warfront or something, with the Humans from Stormwind trying to destroy this new Troll empire growing right on their border.

[Dagoth Ur]

Do we know what's going on with Rokhan? And have we learned anything more about Vol'jin?

I didn't watch too much alpha so can't say anything for certain but I've been told he'll be teaming up with Talanji in Nazmir.

I really hope Blizzard does something for the Darkspear to solidify their place in the Horde. Of course the Zandalari are the leaders of the troll people, but that doesn't mean the Darkspear can't have something to distinguish them. Hell, why not give them Zul'Gurub? Make them the new leaders of the Jungle Trolls. This could be a warfront or something, with the Humans from Stormwind trying to destroy this new Troll empire growing right on their border.

I like how they're tying some of the points that were made in "Shadows of the Horde" concerning Zandalari & Darkspear and Horde. Talanji pretty much recognizes that only way for Zandalari to move forward is to partner up with the Horde. Could be that this will make Darkspear more respected among the troll kind since "they were here before it was cool".

[Polarthief]

I think the Darkspears definitely need a break. Maybe have them brutally conquer or coerce the Gurubashi and other jungle troll tribes into forming a union under the Darkspear.

Yes, and after assisting in thwarting the Gurubashi (Zul'Gurub), Amani (Zul'Aman), Ferakki (Zul'Farrak), and Drakkari (Drak'Tharon Keep, Gundrak) not once but twice, EACH (+1 to each for Throne of Thunder) [Thrice to Drakkari], I don't see any of those 4 tribes willing to join any faction anytime soon, aside from their own troll-only faction.

PS: Bonus +1 against the Atal'ai Trolls from Sunken Temple (AKA: Temple of Atal'Hakkar), and even +1 against Zandalari from Mogu'shan Vaults, but we've all also helped the Zandalari like crazy from ZG times, so I guess they're willing to overlook that one instance in MSV.

[Psychotrip]

I didn't watch too much alpha so can't say anything for certain but I've been told he'll be teaming up with Talanji in Nazmir.



I like how they're tying some of the points that were made in "Shadows of the Horde" concerning Zandalari & Darkspear and Horde. Talanji pretty much recognizes that only way for Zandalari to move forward is to partner up with the Horde. Could be that this will make Darkspear more respected among the troll kind since "they were here before it was cool".

Hmmm, from a lore-perspective I can see how this can make the darkspear cool among their brethren, but how do we make them cool for players? What could Blizzard do to really give them their own flavor?

[Vonazak]

Actually, for me the Darkspear is for the troll races what the Void Elf are for a lover of the lore of the High Elfs in the alliance.

I never liked them, I do not like them, and I will not like them. It's not the Amani that fought alongside the horde so long ago, it's not the Gurubashi, that have tons of Lore, they're just a minor tribe that was forced onto the horde to give us "troll" units in warcraft 3 and then into vanilla , I was one of those who fantasized about the Revantusk in the horde since day one of this game. Yes, they are the same as the Void Elf are for the alliance today. A "place-holder race" that occupied the slot of a race that did make more sense in my faction.

The Zandalari will not come to replace the Darkspear just because they are the "master race" of the trollkin, but because they have better lore, better aesthetics, and more sense, and maybe they are the gateway to other subraces, (or tribes, in this case), the Forest Troll represented by the Revantusk, for example.

But the Darkspear will survive, just as the Draenei survives today even though we have the Lightforged, the Tauren even though we have the Highmountain, etc.

There are people out there who admired Vol'Jin, a traitor to the troll race and who was killed by a trashmob after doing nothing during his entire term as Warchief. There are people who love the aesthetics of Darkspear, they will not be completely replaced.

But if we get another major troll tribe, they will.

[Gamespud]

Having played through Nazmir on the alpha, I don't want to spoil anything but the Darkspear play a very large role in Nazmir. The darkspear seem to make up half of the "Talanji's Expedition" faction. Strangely one thing I've noticed is they're presence is almost entirely Shadow Hunters and there are no Zandalari Shadow Hunters there. Maybe they will push the Darkspear into portraying a different kind of Troll magic from the Zandalari which rely a lot on more Holy magic from the Loa directly while the Shadow Hunters seem to use a lot of Voodoo and Mojo. Basically Zandalari = priests and warriors / Darkspear = stealth and dark magics.

[Psychotrip]

Having played through Nazmir on the alpha, I don't want to spoil anything but the Darkspear play a very large role in Nazmir. The darkspear seem to make up half of the "Talanji's Expedition" faction. Strangely one thing I've noticed is they're presence is almost entirely Shadow Hunters and there are no Zandalari Shadow Hunters there. Maybe they will push the Darkspear into portraying a different kind of Troll magic from the Zandalari which rely a lot on more Holy magic from the Loa directly while the Shadow Hunters seem to use a lot of Voodoo and Mojo. Basically Zandalari = priests and warriors / Darkspear = stealth and dark magics.

Playing up the shadow hunter angle is the way to go, because even though shadow hunters aren’t limited to jungle trolls, they’re definitely most known for it.

Also, please spoil it for me. Either use spoiler bars or just PM me directly if you please. I’d appreciate it.

[KevtheWise]

Just a note on the other troll tribes joining the Horde, this is mentioned in the alpha.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I think that trolls have few more problems than that. First is the fact that "loljamaica" "420smokeweed" theme clearly dominated the race in its infancy because darkspears never had chance to shine. In here, zandalari having clearly "aztec" theme will definately beat them.

All other races have much better defined "niche" in horde, like tauren being big guys, forsaken being "evil" etc, while trolls...are kinda in middle of everything.

Then you have voodoo, theme of trolls...not fitting any class. It used to fit shadow priest pretty nicely, but then we got void overhaul.

I always thought voodoo was vague and mysterious enough it should be easy to write good characters around, but I agree Blizz has failed at it.

[MikeBogina]

Never really liked the Darkspear much anyways. I was always a fan of Zul'jin and Rastakhan and we're finally getting the latter. Hopefully we get the spirit of Zul'jin aswell.


I don't think anything will take away from the Orc+Tauren+Troll foundation of the Horde, but all 3 of them are getting new counterparts who have no connection to each other, besides Highmountain with Tauren. I personally would like to see the Blood Elves, Nightborne and Zandalari form another bond aswell in the Horde, maybe make the political scene interesting.

[Gamespud]

Playing up the shadow hunter angle is the way to go, because even though shadow hunters aren’t limited to jungle trolls, they’re definitely most known for it.

Also, please spoil it for me. Either use spoiler bars or just PM me directly if you please. I’d appreciate it.

I can never remember how to use spoiler bars.. but tbh there isn't much of actual spoilers involved IMO. So Talanji's Expedition by time you get into Nazmir seems to be mostly like a couple dozen nameless zandalari guards, like 4 total named zandalari npcs, a chronicler, a guard, talanji's bodyguard and talanji herself. And then theres like a dozen darkspear shadow hunters, and Rokhan leading them. They all split up at the beginning going they're separate ways to either attack the blood trolls or try to recruit the various loa in nazmir to aid them against the blood trolls. You come across them every now and then in the main questline and side quests. There are at least 2 shadow hunters that are a big part of the Frog Loa questline with one of them becoming the first new follower of his after his last follower is killed. You also help a shadow hunter and talanji's bodyguard chase after a troll Lich as part of a side quest, at one point the shadow hunter gives you part of his power transferring some of his "fire mojo" to burn down some bone piles. Rokhan also calls for the Horde to send reinforcements to aid the expedition which leads to the Gob Squad coming out with their new "AMOD" mech. And of course Rokhan and his shadow hunters just play a large part of the forces in the actual battles against the blood trolls in the questlines. In other news, the darkspear don't have much to do with the Bwonsamdi storyline yet (havnt found the questline with voljin's ashes I assume that's a max level thing or something) but Bwonsamdi is fucking amazing. I love the voice acting they have for him, and they did a great job of making him both likeable and hateable as you can tell he's clearly evil.. but.. also good.. when he wants to be.. and he's on your side.. for now. Also there's a nice little side quest during his questline that I enjoyed that has you find the ghost of a little girl who is trying to find her "Ma'da". Bwonsamdi laughs when you find her and says something like "go ahead and see what happened to her", you help her look around his temple and eventually find a sarcophagus, her mother climbs out and goes "Why did you bring that THING here! My deal wid Bwonsamdi was to live forever in exchange for her soul!" and you end up killing her so the girl and her mother can be together in "the other side".. I don't know which part I find more disturbing tbh, the horrible deal she made with Bwonsamdi.. or the fact that Bwonsamdi used us to cheat his own deal. He has no problem going back on his deals when he changes his mind.

[Kwento]

I’ve been playing a troll since the start. Love this race and I always liked Darkspears, but... Rolling a Zandalari the moment I’m able to.
I’m willing to bet that Zandalari would be neglected in favor of the Darkspears in the future. That is the only chance original Horde trolls would survive. If the Zandalari get attention and become the most prominent troll race, Darkspears are done for.