Hardcore casuals ruined leveling

[Powerogue]

Someone thinks 42 hours qualifies as a grind. Dear lord.

My RS max cape took me 13 1/2 years. Kids these days, am I right?

[HumbleDuck]

No, it's those damn moderates who are ruining the game.
/s

[LiPiNo]

Well, in case of Mythic raiding the rest of the playerbase is not harmed at all if Blizzard makes a Mythic raid version, except the tiny portion of hardcore guild who could not stomach the transition from 25/10 to 20 roster. This was bad handling, but had only a limited effect. On the other hand, leveling touches every single player except the ones who only have one character and never ever rerolled, which is probably a tiny minority. So, it's a different thing, and it does much more harm.

Thats actually a fair point, but can be turned around. It seems its mostly the raiders who needs fotm alts up and geared for progressions etc who dislike longer leveling , while the overall impression is that leveling feels good again (subjective i know, but its the vibe from forums tbh..). Why should they stop enjoying it so that minority can have their thingy faster? Even from this group you will see many, even on these forums, who will call the ones who dont have all the alts already, guess what? Casual.

[Eazy]

Can we start what I am sure is to be an overwhelmingly civil and productive discussion here by defining what a "hardcore casual" is supposed to be in context?

Noobish pro player. Isn't it simple? duuh?

[Alfador]

Noobish pro player. Isn't it simple? duuh?

Simpler than that. It's pure nonsense and there's no such thing.

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As OP said. The person with an excess of free time and no desire/ability to engage with either of wow's primary endgame activities (raiding or pvp) who instead sinks their time into making and leveling alts. The person who "doesn't have time" to raid but can rp walk through 4 zones reading every quest and making little reddit story posts about their experience.

The term is a person who has the time of a "hardcore" player and only engages in so-called casual content

This is nonsense. Either someone is hardcore or they're not. Either they're casual or they're not. The two are mutually exclusive. I'd hoped the implication would bleed through but I guess I need to spell it out. There's no such thing as a "hardcore casual." If they put enough time or effort into the game to be considered "hardcore" then they're certainly not a casual player. It's literally that simple. It's a term made up by people obsessed with shouting down from their soapbox at people who play the game differently.

[Nefarious Tea]

All right, in that case you are fucked because , surprise surprise, only very vocal minority raids mythic. Do i raid mythic ? No i dont. Do i want to delete it? No i dont, it should be there for those who like it and its also same logic why countries need to have proffesional sport team or any other top level "content" for which some people can aim, and some just watch as hobby and some do not care at all.
So please open your mind a bit and realize that people have other priorities then you and given the amount of peoples , in most cases you could be in minority with you "topic" , be it game or life.

It's cute that everyone takes that post I made as an opportunity to hate on Mythic raiding. I was actually throwing shade on class changes and balance. Anyway, you're still wrong. I did the math, as evidenced in this post, which shows that upwards of 200,000 people participate in Mythic raiding, or somewhere between 5-10% of the active playerbase. Far, far more than the 0.1% - or less - that people like you so seem to enjoy espousing without merit.

In fact, I'd wager that Mythic raiding participation rate is higher than several other activities in the game. Do I think any of them should be removed? No, because I don't think anything ever should be removed from an MMO (and things which have been removed from WoW should be readded). But please, keep taking my post to mean that I think Mythic raiding is the only valid pursuit in this game and that I think everything else should be removed.

[Spotnick]

Or you could work a couple hours more and pay for a boost if you don't enjoy it. Or play the AH until you can buy a boost with gold.

[clevin]

There is a distinction that needs to be made here. You are right, the requirements for getting said armor is leveling from 1-110 under the new leveling system. But what so many of you don't understand is that why can't there be multiple ways of getting there?

Because they decided to have just this one. Again, why can't there be multiple ways of getting the Gladiator title in PVP??? Because it has specific requirements. Can you get high item level loot from high keys? Yes. But not the same gear as a mythic raid (no tier). Set that aside if you want and look at the times mythic raids rewarded a special mount. Want that mount? You had to clear that raid on mythic. You could 'cheat' and pay for a carry but the raid still needed to be cleared on mythic and you had to be there. This is the same thing.

COULD they do what you're saying? Sure, I suppose. But they haven't. So this come down to whether or not you want the armor and how badly.

[Akachan]

Because they decided to have just this one. Again, why can't there be multiple ways of getting the Gladiator title in PVP??? Because it has specific requirements. Can you get high item level loot from high keys? Yes. But not the same gear as a mythic raid (no tier). Set that aside if you want and look at the times mythic raids rewarded a special mount. Want that mount? You had to clear that raid on mythic. You could 'cheat' and pay for a carry but the raid still needed to be cleared on mythic and you had to be there. This is the same thing.

COULD they do what you're saying? Sure, I suppose. But they haven't. So this come down to whether or not you want the armor and how badly.

You are not understanding me. The only requirement here is: 1. No boost, and 2. Level to 110. There are no SPECIFIC conditions on how you should LEVEL to get to 110, is there? The requirement doesn't say "you must grind here, then here, then here," does it? No, as a matter of fact, there exists now multiple ways to get to 110.
You could get there using the old fashion way: grinding through zones. You could gain levels using pvp. You could gain levels using dungeons, which was my preferred method before 7.3.5. My gripe is why should one method, zone questing, have such an overwhelming advantage over dungeon crawling that essentially makes dungeon crawling irrelevant? I'm not going to get into the realities of dungeon crawling nowadays with you because I've already done so in a previous post, but its up a few pages back if you want to check it out.

For the record, I know I'm not being "forced" to level to 110, but you can't deny one is "forced" to level a certain way under the new system if he values efficiency.

[clevin]

You are not understanding me. The only requirement here is: 1. No boost, and 2. Level to 110. There are no SPECIFIC conditions on how you should LEVEL to get to 110, is there? The requirement doesn't say "you must grind here, then here, then here," does it? No, as a matter of fact, there exists now multiple ways to get to 110.
You could get there using the old fashion way: grinding through zones. You could gain levels using pvp. You could gain levels using dungeons, which was my preferred method before 7.3.5. My gripe is why should one method, zone questing, have such an overwhelming advantage over dungeon crawling that essentially makes dungeon crawling irrelevant? I.

Ah, ok. THAT I understand as a complaint and yeah, I wasn't getting that from earlier posts, I thought you wanted methods other than leveling to get the armor.

[ChampionChains]

Haven't tried the new leveling myself (unsubbed right after antorus release but will probably be activating within a few months), but leveling was stupid easy and fast prior to 7.3.5.

I leveled another monk just before unsubbing and it took only a few days to get to max and ilvl 930+. I made the toon on a Sunday and by Thursday he was max level and pretty decently geared. That was without any recruit-a-friend bonus, no xp potions, just heirlooms. WoW leveling prior to 7.3.5, you could get 1-110 in about the same amount of time it took you to get 1-20 in Everquest. Leveling in WoW was made WAY too easy, and a lot of "hardcore" people are of the mindset that the game starts at 110, which simply isn't true. The endless grind starts at 110, sure, but everything 1-110 is also valid gameplay content.

[Deleted]

Thats actually a fair point, but can be turned around. It seems its mostly the raiders who needs fotm alts up and geared for progressions etc who dislike longer leveling , while the overall impression is that leveling feels good again (subjective i know, but its the vibe from forums tbh..). Why should they stop enjoying it so that minority can have their thingy faster? Even from this group you will see many, even on these forums, who will call the ones who dont have all the alts already, guess what? Casual.

I am a casual and I find the change horrible. The only reason for me to level new characters is heritage armour and RP reasons, and I don't get why such minor rewards warrant such an extreme change. At least I am not in a hurry, I feel bad for people who really like to reroll and use the heritage armour for their new main.

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Haven't tried the new leveling myself (unsubbed right after antorus release but will probably be activating within a few months), but leveling was stupid easy and fast prior to 7.3.5.

I leveled another monk just before unsubbing and it took only a few days to get to max and ilvl 930+. I made the toon on a Sunday and by Thursday he was max level and pretty decently geared. That was without any recruit-a-friend bonus, no xp potions, just heirlooms. WoW leveling prior to 7.3.5, you could get 1-110 in about the same amount of time it took you to get 1-20 in Everquest. Leveling in WoW was made WAY too easy, and a lot of "hardcore" people are of the mindset that the game starts at 110, which simply isn't true. The endless grind starts at 110, sure, but everything 1-110 is also valid gameplay content.

Monks get an extra XP buff from daily quests in the monastery. So, I would not compare a monk to other characters. Or does this not stack with heirlooms?

[cparle87]

I think this is Blizzard telling us that they want to make the actual game the game, and not just the "End Game", cause they spent a lot of time making this game, and don't want people spamming past all of it just to get to the raiding content or top level pvp content only. There is a ton of game that people just brush off as "that annoying leveling thing" when that is most of the game and most of the crafted story content that Blizzard want you to experience.

If you are doing it for the 50th time because you are an alt-o-holic, or have 16 toons per server so you can farm transmogs, mounts, and pets....that is entirely your problem, not Blizzard's.

Excellently put. People like those are outliers and the lion's share of the game should not be centered around them.

[Deleted]

Am I supposed to be sorry for liking the new levelling experience?

[ChampionChains]

I am a casual and I find the change horrible. The only reason for me to level new characters is heritage armour and RP reasons, and I don't get why such minor rewards warrant such an extreme change. At least I am not in a hurry, I feel bad for people who really like to reroll and use the heritage armour for their new main.

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Monks get an extra XP buff from daily quests in the monastery. So, I would not compare a monk to other characters. Or does this not stack with heirlooms?

Yeah, they are faster than everyone else. I'd guess though that the monk I leveled with no xp boost elixirs/potions, would level at about the same speed as a non-monk who did use them (or possibly slower). Same with the old recruit-a-friend bonus. But I've also leveled 2 Paladins 1-110 in Legion (one prot, one holy) as well as another warrior and a priest. It's fast as hell, regardless. Especially compared to any other MMO on the market.

[SkagenRora]

Can we start what I am sure is to be an overwhelmingly civil and productive discussion here by defining what a "hardcore casual" is supposed to be in context?

I'm guessing the "Hardcore" part is someone who can play a lot of hours, and the casual part are that they don't raid at all. That's my guess atleast

[last1214]

Lmao this threads title. Stupid smart people are ruining the internet.

[SirCowdog]

Ah, ok. THAT I understand as a complaint and yeah, I wasn't getting that from earlier posts, I thought you wanted methods other than leveling to get the armor.

Funny how the goalposts shifted from "I should be able to level up faster just to get the heritage armor* to "There should be alternatives to questing, but at the same speed".

A point of interest: Running dungeons is still just as fast. However, you need a group of good players who understand proper speed runs and how to avoid unnecessary pulls and wipes. Doing dungeons with randoms is going to be slow because the balance previous to 7.3.5 allowed people to ignore mechanics and faceroll. They never learned good methods.

Although I suspect that still won't be good enough for him.

[Akachan]

The goalpost didn't change, you just think it did. I see nothing wrong with saying I should be able to level up faster using the method I choose instead of being forced into questing which I hate. The method in this case is dungeon crawling using the lfg tool. Right now that system is broken. Before the change one could gain a level and more if he turned in all the quests associated with that dungeon. Now after 7.3.5 you barely gain 2/3 of a level, sometimes even less. Now, due to this change, less and less people are queuing up because it's just more convenient to quest. There is also no risk of wasted time with a wipes, disbanding, etc.

And, really, you want to talk about shifting goalposts? So you're NOW saying running dungeons is just as fast, BUT you need a group of good players? Alright, fine, but tell me, do you need a group of good players to knock out quests, which are available 24/7, that you can knock out yourself? Do you have a roster of people to which you can say, at the drop of a hat, "let's go run deadmines," and they'll come running like Voltron lions? Maybe you do, but please don't assume other people do. And, seriously, which one do you think is going to be faster in the long run? People don't get tired? They don't got shit to do? They can just help YOU level your toon from 1-115 nonstop? Again, maybe you do, but please don't assume that's the case for the rest of us unlucky souls. Oftentimes, LFG tool is all we get.

[SirCowdog]

I want to level up faster

You're still saying the same thing as before, whether it's in a group or solo. If you want to be faster, then get better at leveling. The system isn't broken, you just refuse to adjust your expectations from when it was.