Time travel Orcs are a Tumor on the setting

[SNES-1990]

The weird thing for me is that not only are these Orcs leaving their planet, they are leaving their freaking universe. Even if it's just a sect of them it'll be weird. They must've had a really good reason for doing so.

Judging by the "Gorgrond Orcs" map on the alpha, it looks like something is destroying their resources.

[Stardrift]

You're trying to complain I lack an argument when your 'argument' is crying about 'magic dragons answer everything' and then accusing me of needing my parents to help me clean and dress myself.

We're done here, you've embarrassed yourself more than enough.

"I declare I have won by saying you've embarrassed yourself"
Lolokay
Thanks for the lack of any substance in your arguments, and once again being exactly what you're trying to portray me as
My advice is to provide a proper counterargument, rather than clenching your buttcheeks at the sight of something you disagree with and going straight to insulting.

[Smokinya]

The tears from the OP are fucking fantastic. Clearly he hasn't read any good comics. Alternate universes when done well can be fucking fantastic! WoD was half-baked because they cut out the middle of the story and gave up on the expansion. The game and story came out swinging in the start and fell flat on it's face at the end. That's Blizzards fault. But they have the ability to rectify it with this Allied Race. They can make right what they did wrong.

Also a couple of other tidbits from reading your comments on the first two pages (I could stomach anymore): you cannot use the Mag'Har from Outland because all the clans aren't there. They all don't exist there like they do on AU Draenor (unless they retroactively fit it, last time all I seen were Brown orcs, meaning Warsong). Additionally Mag'Har simply means "uncorrupted" so yes, they can call themselves Mag'Har.

I get it. Blizzard fucked up a bit on WoD's story. It had a lot of potential that was squandered. That doesn't mean they can't make it right.

[MikeBogina]

The game and story came out swinging in the start and fell flat on it's face at the end.

Though i agree the leveling process in WoD was fun, the game was a nightmare at launch and barely playable for the first day, especially on the Horde side.

[Aurabolt]

Considering the Bronze/Infinite Dragonflight's plan was to pull from as many timelines as it took to build up an army that could take on the Burning Legion, that would take a lot of timelines.

Not sure where you got that from but it was Kairoz acting alone. He was on the Timeless Isle researching a new means of manipulating Time-Space. The Bronze Flight's power as a whole was greatly diminished due to the events of the Hour of Twilight regarding the Dragon Soul. Kairoz had just enough travel to a version of Draenor where Garrosh never existed (Grom's wife in AU Draenor is killed before they mated) to make it easier for him to assume a leadership role and unite the Orc Clans under Grommash Hellscream. Hence why AU Grom himself never made the connection until Gul'dan eventually spells it out for him later on. Garrosh changed their history by convincing Grom to reject Demon Blood. This major deviation from what was supposed to happen was partially corrected by Gul'dan when he usurped control of the remnants of Iron Horde later on.

On an unrelated note: Aren't there now two Gorehowls? Garrosh discards his on Azeroth plus AU Grom has his. Whatever became of the one Garrosh discarded?

- - - Updated - - -

Also a couple of other tidbits from reading your comments on the first two pages (I could stomach anymore): you cannot use the Mag'Har from Outland because all the clans aren't there. They all don't exist there like they do on AU Draenor (unless they retroactively fit it, last time all I seen were Brown orcs, meaning Warsong). Additionally Mag'Har simply means "uncorrupted" so yes, they can call themselves Mag'Har.

...Pre-WoD, the Mag'har were always considered Orcs from all the clans who just chose not to drink Demon Blood. The Orcs on Azeroth had no idea themselves they had kin in Outland who were uncorrupted. The only uncorrupted clans known by name Pre-WoD were the Warsong and The Frostwolf. It is inferred Orcs from other clans survived but all the Uncorrupted Orcs were collectively known as the Mag'har.

Thrall's Grandmother and Garrosh himself obviously didn't travel to Azeroth with the bulk of their clans at the start of the First War, yet they knew of what became of their kinfolk until the portals were sealed by Khadgar and the Alliance during the Second War. The Dark Portal's reopening allowed them to learn from The Horde what exactly happened since then.

[Deleted]

Get over it. In the end nobody will care about it. It makes sense btw. Broxigar was also a time travelling Orc. The whole time-travelling story will never be repeated as long as the bronze dragonflight is watching over our timeline, Kairozdormu was a completely exception. You think AU Orcs cheapen the Orcs from the main story? Dude, because of WoD most people know who the warlords really were and what they did. Youre looking through pink-nostalgia-glasses. Get over it, adapt to it and have fun playing a brown Draenor orc, because you will anyway.

[Smokinya]

Though i agree the leveling process in WoD was fun, the game was a nightmare at launch and barely playable for the first day, especially on the Horde side.

Sorry what I meant by that is that it was a lot of fun and the raids were good. Launch day was a nightmare I hadn't experienced since TBC.

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure where you got that from but it was Kairoz acting alone. He was on the Timeless Isle researching a new means of manipulating Time-Space. The Bronze Flight's power as a whole was greatly diminished due to the events of the Hour of Twilight regarding the Dragon Soul. Kairoz had just enough travel to a version of Draenor where Garrosh never existed (Grom's wife in AU Draenor is killed before they mated) to make it easier for him to assume a leadership role and unite the Orc Clans under Grommash Hellscream. Hence why AU Grom himself never made the connection until Gul'dan eventually spells it out for him later on. Garrosh changed their history by convincing Grom to reject Demon Blood. This major deviation from what was supposed to happen was partially corrected by Gul'dan when he usurped control of the remnants of Iron Horde later on.

On an unrelated note: Aren't there now two Gorehowls? Garrosh discards his on Azeroth plus AU Grom has his. Whatever became of the one Garrosh discarded?

- - - Updated - - -



...Pre-WoD, the Mag'har were always considered Orcs from all the clans who just chose not to drink Demon Blood. The Orcs on Azeroth had no idea themselves they had kin in Outland who were uncorrupted. The only uncorrupted clans known by name Pre-WoD were the Warsong and The Frostwolf. It is inferred Orcs from other clans survived but all the Uncorrupted Orcs were collectively known as the Mag'har.

Thrall's Grandmother and Garrosh himself obviously didn't travel to Azeroth with the bulk of their clans at the start of the First War, yet they knew of what became of their kinfolk until the portals were sealed by Khadgar and the Alliance during the Second War. The Dark Portal's reopening allowed them to learn from The Horde what exactly happened since then.

Thanks for the correction. But again Blizzard would have to retroactivley fix Outland and the Mag'Har there to include all the other clans. Additionally, you could argue since the majority seemed to be Frostwolf and Warsong that the bloodlines of the other clans were bred out leaving only brown orcs. I'm excited that the WoD story might finally get some much needed closure. Alternate Universes can be so much fun and as I said previously the story of Warlords was bad because they gave up on it.

[Byucknah The Red]

They're Mag'har orcs from Outland. Regardless of what they're presented as, that's what I'm going to think of them as. As far as I'm concerned, WoD did not happen in any capacity. It was all just an Emerald Nightmare-induced fever dream.

Explain Gul'dan

That aside though, in terms of WoD... You can dislike it all you want, you can flat out hate it, but it happened and there is nothing you can ever do about it. No matter what you say, no matter what you think, in the back of your mind you will know that it happened and that stain will never wash away no matter how hard you try to banish the thought.

It can not be undone

[Wildberry]

Also a couple of other tidbits from reading your comments on the first two pages (I could stomach anymore): you cannot use the Mag'Har from Outland because all the clans aren't there. They all don't exist there like they do on AU Draenor (unless they retroactively fit it, last time all I seen were Brown orcs, meaning Warsong). Additionally Mag'Har simply means "uncorrupted" so yes, they can call themselves Mag'Har.

Lol, no. Garadar alone had Blackrock, Bleeding Hollow, Warsong, and Frostwolf.

I get it. Blizzard fucked up a bit on WoD's story. It had a lot of potential that was squandered. That doesn't mean they can't make it right.

A bit? No, they fucked up so bad it's far beyond salvageable.

[Smokinya]

Lol, no. Garadar alone had Blackrock, Bleeding Hollow, Warsong, and Frostwolf.


A bit? No, they fucked up so bad it's far beyond salvageable.

If you think its "beyond salvageable" then you clearly have no imagination honestly if I had two hours of solid writing time I could easily fix the lore. Furthermore, I don't remember seeing any Black orcs around Garadar. So where was Blackrock there?

[Wildberry]

If you think its "beyond salvageable" then you clearly have no imagination honestly if I had two hours of solid writing time I could easily fix the lore.

No, you couldn't. I know your ebin comics totally do alternate universes well but "multiple universes, one Legion," for example, is a train wreck that can't be fixed.

I don't remember seeing any Black orcs around Garadar. So where was Blackrock there?

Varok Saurfang is a Blackrock Orc. His son, Dranosh, is in Garadar. There is a Blackrock Orc in Garadar.

If you want to argue that "but he wasn't black!! None of them were!" just remember that Sylvanas used a Night Elf model up until WotLK.

[Deleted]

And that's why nozdormu goes mad and decides to end that atrocity.

[Colonel Sandor]

And that's why nozdormu goes mad and decides to end that atrocity.

I wouldn't be upset if trying to fix the paradoxes and timelines would be how Nozdormu goes mad.

[ohwell]

They most likely will evade ever using duplicate character, they will A) Stay in Draenor B) Go like UA Velen



Most of the Orcs and Draneai in Azeroth feel like that's their home already, most of them were born there, but yes, it does "solve" the resource problem, or just expand the war to Draenor



They don't have the power to create such portals, and pretty sure the Bronze Dragonflight will try to evade for more portals to be created to different timelines.



Why? UA Guldan did not made our Guldan worse or better (i actually like how the UA Guldan was made -love him in the voice novel-)

AU Guldan was one of the worst plot holes of WoD. He shouldn't have had even near the power he had considering the events leading up to and during WoD, but because of MU Guldan he was hyped up to be something he shouldn't have been.

[MatadorMedia]

I agree with OP. The time travel nonsense is just garbage; you essentially have an Orc and then an alternate version of the same Orc just 20 years younger, now fighting side-by-side. Um... what? I thought sure they would sweep the lore disaster that was Warlords under the rug, but here they go embracing the worst storytelling in the history of WoW.

Outland Orcs actually make sense; Outland was shattered as a planet so them travelling to Azeroth to assist in saving a healthy planet is an easy lore connection. The AU Orcs just... I dunno... feel like fighting? There's no reason for them to leave Draenor so I don't know.

[Aurabolt]

AU Guldan was one of the worst plot holes of WoD. He shouldn't have had even near the power he had considering the events leading up to and during WoD, but because of MU Guldan he was hyped up to be something he shouldn't have been.

...AU Gul'dan could have been used much better than he was in in the beginning of WoD, more so given he doesn't get much development after you shut down the portal until the Return to Taanan Jungle Preview Cinematic and Hell Fire Citadel. Much of it had to do with the fact both the Iron Horde and Khadgar were actively hunting him all over Draenor after we released him. Then, Cordana gets seduced by the Fel Side. LOL.

The WarCraft movie tie-in was why his role was not only built up at the end but he played the role of catalyst leading into Legion. AU Gul'dan's main post-WoD role was to open the backdoor for the Legion Invasion of Azeroth.

That said, AU Gul'dan was probably more powerful than his MU self because of the simple fact AU Gul'dan wasn't commanding an army. He was able to focus entirely on becoming more and more powerful without also being burdened with commanding the Horde directly at the same time. He summoned Archimonde from the Twisting Neither and THAT takes some serious power. More so when you remember what it took for Kel'Thuzad (just after becoming an Arch Lich) to do the same thing. AU Gul'dan had the skills to do it without the prepwork Kel'Thuzad required so...yeah. The only one more powerful is the PC Warlock more than likely.

[FelPlague]

They most likely will evade ever using duplicate character, they will A) Stay in Draenor B) Go like UA Velen



Most of the Orcs and Draneai in Azeroth feel like that's their home already, most of them were born there, but yes, it does "solve" the resource problem, or just expand the war to Draenor



They don't have the power to create such portals, and pretty sure the Bronze Dragonflight will try to evade for more portals to be created to different timelines.



Why? UA Guldan did not made our Guldan worse or better (i actually like how the UA Guldan was made -love him in the voice novel-)

my favorite part about this is that in the audio novel guldan talks to kiljaden about what the last guldan did and its quite interesting to see the crisis and thought of "Glad i wasent that guy... but i was that guy... could i get away with it? he didnt..."

[Steridin]

I totally agreed with OP. It was just my point when i tried to argue that the Mag'har race will definitely be from Outland due to this as one of the reasons, turn out it's not (as it seems).

However, looking at things on a bigger scheme (Considered that the story from Cata to Legion are basically a grand scheme of Blizz's story telling), this might open up for future stories for the Infinite Dragonflight (do remember we had a lot of questions from Chromie scenario that involves literally every single villainous parties in game so far, or so it seems).

I really hate wow story become one of Primer-esque though.

[Magistrate]

They're Mag'har orcs from Outland. Regardless of what they're presented as, that's what I'm going to think of them as. As far as I'm concerned, WoD did not happen in any capacity. It was all just an Emerald Nightmare-induced fever dream.

I think in many ways it's evidenced that Blizzard is moving on and not really looking back to WoD. I mean, in Chronicle they literally erase all mention of a larger Ogre empire outside of the main continent--they don't reference a larger world or show it on the map, anymore. And there are probably many current stories that should mention WoD in context but don't.

I don't blame them. Visually, WoD was amazing, and I think that's why they chose to go back to the WoD Draenor and not the TBC Outland. WoD Draenor as a faction hub already has vast, unpopulated NPC areas--I *think* they're using that completely empty village from WoD in Gorgrond, aren't they? As well as other areas? It also has current-quality art assets and geography. And we really just don't know some technical things--WoD already has much of the newer technology built into its zones--phasing, seamless scenarios, WQ basics, and some other things. It could be that the scope of what they'd like to accomplish with the Allied Race questing and hub just works easier on technical and art levels by doing it in more recent content than doing it in TBC content.

Plus, WoD gives many, many more skin and background options than the largely annihilated version in current Outland, without the need of mixing them into the larger continent. For Outland, that would need to be something to consider.

I think in the end it just comes down to offering content to current players that uses as much of the current tech and art as possible. Which does alienate players who want a specific vision.

Honestly, as an RPer, I wouldn't be mad at all to see lots of people playing the fantasy of Outland Mag'har with them.

[Paraka]

I think in the end it just comes down to offering content to current players that uses as much of the current tech and art as possible. Which does alienate players who want a specific vision.

Honestly, as an RPer, I wouldn't be mad at all to see lots of people playing the fantasy of Outland Mag'har with them.

I honestly feel more or less the same about WoD. Loved how it came out guns blazing, but after that everything just... Sat, I guess? Not entirely sure what I want to call it, cause it clearly wasn't a focused action of any kind.

I feel like being an AU Orc gave them the "reason" to add the various clan identities to their skin options. WoD practically cemented the styles where-as Outland Orcs were just a malaise of brown. I mean, sure, we -CAN- pretend the skins were made and make a functional story of how all the options are now magically from Outland, but let's be honest... We're only going to be acceptingly fooling ourselves tragically so.