Spoilers: Why is the Alliance story so weak in BFA compared to the Horde?

[Zuben]

It feels bad when your side doesn't get to experience the "heavier" lore. I remember feeling that way in WoD when Horde got a throwaway clan of Thunderlords as their nemesis in Frostfire Ridge, while Alliance got to see the development of an actually relevant clan of Shadowmoon and the named Warlord Ner'zhul. Still, had Frostfire otherwise been to my taste (it wasn't) I wouldn't have minded. Kul Tiras certainly looks very interesting, so I think you can live with it.

[Nize]

I dunno. I personally feel it's fine. There's never going to be 50/50 equal quality storytelling. Legion made use of a lot of Alliance characters and developed them and the story to the point where it made much more sense to be an Alliance player going through it. I've learned through experience that it's much better to let a storyteller tell their story than to create a situation where they're forced to deliver something that may not come across as something the listener may want to hear.

Even then, have patience. Perhaps the storylines of the Alliance is more tied to the Old Gods and Azshara by the end of it all. Perhaps Alliance, in this case, are still the end-gamers, while Horde gets the upfront stuff.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

Aren't both islands and some quests open at max-level?

And.. you can always level a Horde and an Alliance character ...which is what I'm gonna do!

[Azahel]

From what I can see there is a lot of dark magic going on in Kul Tiras, sinister forces working behind the scenes to manipulate the nation into going against the Alliance and being used for darker forces. While on the outside, not as dramatic as taking out a blood god, I find it pretty cool. It's not about scale, it's about quality. And if it leads up to Kul Tiras taking out Azshara, then even the scale isn't lacking.

Mists of Pandaria has perhaps the best story of any expansion (other than, perhaps, WotLK), and it had the least powerful primary villain. It's not about scale, it's about quality, and I am feeling good about Alliance this expansion. It's too soon to say for sure but I don't feel like I'll be left wanting.

Speaking of mists, I remember that some quests changed from beta to live and it made me quite confused on my re-playing (my first run on live was fine because I was paying attention.)
Something OP should consider.

[Xtrm]

I feel like we're missing a large amount of the story for the Alliance. The Horde zones heavily deal with the Blood trolls and the Loa which will lead into the first raid. It's been confirmed that Azshara will be the end boss of the second raid. I believe the Kul Tiras zones will culminate with Azshara and the Naga.

[meowfurion]

Because Blizzard employees, by far, heavily heavily represent Horde and it will always be their special favorite snowflakes. Every Blizzard friend I know plays Horde if they play WoW.

It's just how it is. I'm not saying this as an 'angry' Alliance player or anything, it's just true.

[Magnagarde]

The Horde end of things has clearly been in development for far longer than the Alliance one. You need to be patient.

The only complaint I could find relevant in terms of parity is the fact that the Alliance gets obese and anorexic humans as an "addition"(which honestly isn't one), whereas the Horde gets the Zandalari, Mag'har and so on. Kul Tiras also seems to be a bunch of identical house models being plastered over an open terrain for the most part with little to no detail, which is why I can't shake the feeling that the Alliance story and polishing of their zones will be rushed.

[Bigby]

The Alliance's story is always weak/rushed when they focus on the faction war. Look at Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria. They have more fun writing about the Horde being all Lok'tar and Smash Puny Alliance Rawr than they do the other side. I'm pretty sure they even admitted to this in one of the Cataclysm interviews bringing up the poor state of Alliance questing in relation to the war. They don't enjoy writing for the Alliance when there's Orcs to pen killing stuff, so they just go the easy route - make simple-to-write humans do everything to get it over with - and go back to what they want to be doing.

Blizzard do a better job writing Alliance themes when there's a much heavier 'neutral' focus, which is why WotLK and Legion so often get touted as Alliance-bias, even when the characters and motivations have pretty much nothing to do with the Alliance itself.

The Horde end of things has clearly been in development for far longer than the Alliance one. You need to be patient.

*Looks at Alliance Cataclysm questing* Yeah, patience, suurre.

[Magnagarde]

*Looks at Alliance Cataclysm questing* Yeah, patience, suurre.

I'm not saying it potentially won't end up being weak. In truth, the rest of my post goes on to explain how it actually does feel rushed and lazy.

[Leiandri]

Remember horde players complaining about heavily alliance-skewed story in Legion and lack of development of any major horde characters and plotlines? Remember the alliance players taunting back and arguing that it was "well deserved" after "two horde-centric expansions in a row" prior to it?

I do.

The hypocrisy and entitlement of the alliance playerbase never ceases to amuse me.

[Bigby]

Remember horde players complaining about heavily alliance-skewed story in Legion and lack of development of any major horde characters and plotlines? Remember the alliance players taunting back and arguing that it was "well deserved" after "two horde-centric expansions in a row" prior to it?

I do.

The hypocrisy and entitlement of the alliance playerbase never ceases to amuse me.

Don't act like the Horde playerbase is any better. Although it always amuses me when people try to convince themselves they are just because their Belf Paladin landed on the red team.

Horde players were touting that Cataclysm and MoP being heavily skewed towards the Horde was "well deserved" because Tirion was a human, therefore WotLK was Alliance bias.

[KrakHed]

The hypocrisy and entitlement of the alliance playerbase never ceases to amuse me.

I don't think this should be about hypocrisy or entitlement. Only a madman would demand the Horde experience to be made worse. I just want the Alliance experience to go in a better direction. As I referred to it, it needs more personality. Even the Horde is goingto have to go their at endgame, and I want it to be somewhere worth visiting.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't act like the Horde playerbase is any better. Although it always amuses me when people try to convince themselves they are just because their Belf Paladin landed on the red team.

Horde players were touting that Cataclysm and MoP being heavily skewed towards the Horde was "well deserved" because Tirion was a human, therefore WotLK was Alliance bias.

Were MoP and Cata even skewed so much towards the Horde? The Horde may have gotten story, but it was with a Warchief they didn't want in a direction they didn't like. Then they kind of shat on Vol'jin a few times just so Alliance heroes could one-up him and make the Alliance feel better. Then they killed him off as soon as possible.

You do not want that treatment, and I honestly wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Unless you have some serious aggression to let out of your system, this story path leads to nothing but humiliation and shame. If you hadn't noticed, the Horde was and is still literally begging on the forums for it to end.

We have Sylvanas as Warchief right now, in an expansion where Vol'jin was clearly meant to rule. Zandalar being good is the only redeeming factor of the Horde-side story. And I still want the Alliance questing to be better.

And for the people saying the Alliance quests are clearly building up to Azshara, I'll say that I've seen an infinitely greater quantity of Naga on Zandalar. This is not a dick measuring contest. This is me expressing concerns about a story I wish was better.

But when it comes down to it, Tirion in WoTLK is Human bias at the very least, as the story focused more on Human culture and values, as well as aesthetics, than Horde ones. The Argent Crusade is very human themed and the Alliance is very Human themed. A Horde player working for the Crusade is basically working for a neutral offshoot of the Alliance, rather than a Horde-flavored organization. And it is Alliance bias if there are no Horde-flavored neutral orders.

[Aucald]

Don't know about the story, but I think Kul Tiras won handily in the game of aesthetics and atmosphere. Boralus and associated zones look very interesting and atmospheric - the entire set of zones throws off a combination of antiquated and quasi-Vrykul, and is coupled with a glazing of Old God. Seems like an interesting place to take in.

[Thagrynor]

So you, personally, don't find it as interesting/whatever and we're supposed to consider that like, a factual statement about the stories in BFA? Much less 'speak up' and complain about it?

"Oh, damn, this one guy said a thing, horde bias! Horde bias!"

Someone else might like the alliance stories better and say the same thing about them. Do people not realize how opinions work anymore?

I am not saying that the Alliance story won't get better, as I am sure it will, but his comments were related to how the story linked together and what sort of implications it would have for an overarching storyarch. It wasn't just, "boo hoo I don't like this."

Additionally, you make it sound like he is the only person saying this. Virtually all online streamers/YouTubers are saying that, currently as it stands in Alpha, the Alliance story is VERY weak compared to the Horde story. Again, it is likely that the Alliance story will improve a great deal, but again, currently, most people in Alpha are agreeing that the Alliance story seems pretty weak.

I believe Preach did a video about the differences (or at least mentioned it in one of the videos) and Bellular has mentioned it as well. There have been others I've seen too.

Honestly, I am curious if this means either they are waiting to put the proper Alliance story in because it will be so big or such a twist that they don't want to spoil that or if they just haven't quite figured it out or they were just working the Horde side first and haven't gotten there yet. And I say this as someone who, while recently I started playing Horde a bit more to play with my cousin, has played predominantly Alliance since Vanilla. And no, it isn't anyone crying "Horde bias!" It is people recognizing that the Horde story got implemented and are worried that, IF the alliance story doesn't improve, then it WILL be a lot of bias. Nothing wrong with being worried at the current state of things and hoping for improvement in the future.

[KrakHed]

Don't know about the story, but I think Kul Tiras won handily in the game of aesthetics and atmosphere. Boralus and associated zones look very interesting and atmospheric - the entire set of zones throws off a combination of antiquated and quasi-Vrykul, and is coupled with a glazing of Old God. Seems like an interesting place to take in.

Oh, I agree that the zone looks absolutely positively lovely. I just think the story needs to be portrayed stronger.

[Leiandri]

Don't act like the Horde playerbase is any better. Although it always amuses me when people try to convince themselves they are just because their Belf Paladin landed on the red team.

Horde players were touting that Cataclysm and MoP being heavily skewed towards the Horde was "well deserved" because Tirion was a human, therefore WotLK was Alliance bias.

No, I don't imply that horde players are somehow "morally superior" to the alliance ones, I just wanted to remind that their vocal dissatisfaction with those kind of things never seem as widespread and demanding as the alliance's "pursuit of justice". I just remember even a few alliance players speaking up on the subject of the lacking horde story in Legion being talked down by their kin as some kind of traitors, coming up with all sort of ridiculous arguments and excuses to justify their point.

Also I don't think that Wrath was argued to had been "alliance biased" due to Tirion's character and story, I believe it was actually about Arthas, a character with a... heavy alliance background being the center of it. Although, speaking for myself, having played through that expansion as a horde character, I'd never actually felt that I was somehow shafted in terms of the story and characters on the red side. Unlike some of the later ones... *cough*MistsWarlordsLegion*cough*

I don't think this should be about hypocrisy or entitlement. Only a madman would demand the Horde experience to be made worse. I just want the Alliance experience to go in a better direction. As I referred to it, it needs more personality. Even the Horde is goingto have to go their at endgame, and I want it to be somewhere worth visiting.

No, and I would never advocate for imbalanced storytelling experience either. A good story is a good story, regardless of what side of the fence you're feeling more homely on. Although even though I personally understand the faction segregation from a gamedesign standpoint, Blizzard's ability to distribute development and writing time between the two factions is clearly a detriment to the end user experience.

[Deleted]

Don't know about the story, but I think Kul Tiras won handily in the game of aesthetics and atmosphere. Boralus and associated zones look very interesting and atmospheric - the entire set of zones throws off a combination of antiquated and quasi-Vrykul, and is coupled with a glazing of Old God. Seems like an interesting place to take in.

As much as I find Kul'Tiras intriguing I would have found a renaissance Venice kind of setting far more appealing, it fits perfectly with Kul'Tiras being a maritime island nation too, might as well have tradefleets and puffy shirts.

[Ningjinq]

Azshara seems to be tied to Kyl Tiras though. I would not judge too fast.

Admittedly unreleased Stormsong Valley, which is almost certainly a Naga-themed zone probably will have lots of Naga in it. But as it stands now, Zuldazar gave us a very big revelation of Azshara working with Zul’s Zandalari faction.

[KrakHed]

IF the alliance story doesn't improve, then it WILL be a lot of bias.

I wouldn't call it bias unless I thought the same team was working on both. I actually get the impression that Zandalar was created by rounding up all the Troll and Dinosaur fans they had and locking them in a room together. Despite how heavily Troll it is, I don't get the impression anyone working on Zandalar has even the slightest Troll Fatigue. They always seem to manage to create a diverse set of characters and situations. The people working on Zandalar are clearly rather passionate about what they're doing, and are even able to develop other races like Tortollan to enhance the flavor.

I don't think this team could be easily transferred to just work on Kul Tiras content if they weren't as passionate about the themes. The problem I get with Kul Tiras is that I presently don't feel the themes are handled as well as they could be, and that makes sense to me. Trolls have an established cultural aesthetic. You can round up all their fans, and they'd have the same general idea of what "cool troll shit" means.

Round up all the Kul Tiras fans, and they're still going to have to invent what makes Kul Tiras special. And they're not necessarily going to have fully fleshed out ideas or agree on everything. Witches used to only be a small part of Drustvar until they made it everything in the zone, so ideas are clearly more in flux.

However, I just don't see the same passion behind the Witches as I do for some random Compy god on Zandalar. Hek hek hek hek, and all.

No, and I would never advocate for imbalanced storytelling experience either. A good story is a good story, regardless of what side of the fence you're feeling more homely on. Although even though I personally understand the faction segregation from a gamedesign standpoint, Blizzard's ability to distribute development and writing time between the two factions is clearly a detriment to the end user experience.

Honestly, I don't want the Alliance on Zandalar. Their presence tends to come with a lot of Human focus, and I think that'd detract from the appeal of Zandalar. Which is going full Troll. The fact that almost all characters on the island are natives does wonders for immersing you in their culture. Even if the Alliance visit Zandalar, it's not going to be the same experience. There's a difference between helping save a Troll civilization, and just slaughtering a ton of them for plunder and loot.

I loathe the day the Godking must kneel before the dead elf girl. I'm hoping Bwonsamdi makes sure the alliance with the Horde is on Troll terms.

[Ningjinq]

Remember horde players complaining about heavily alliance-skewed story in Legion and lack of development of any major horde characters and plotlines? Remember the alliance players taunting back and arguing that it was "well deserved" after "two horde-centric expansions in a row" prior to it?

I do.

The hypocrisy and entitlement of the alliance playerbase never ceases to amuse me.

Except I am a Horde player. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...llow/niingjing That doesn’t stop me though from having an opinion shared by a lot of players that the Alliance storyline is very forgettable and the Horde storyline is incredibly impactful.