Master Looter

[Cebel]

Great logic moron... you basically just said because it was fun you weren't taking advantage of shit.

LOL... I think stealing your money is fun.... so give me all of it and because it's fun I'm not taking advantage of you. DM me for my paypal address I'm expecting the money soon don't spoil my fun bra.

Also, FYI, the fact that you think split runs aren't taking advantage of the loot system doesn't matter at all, because Ion does:
“Using multiple raid groups to funnel loot to a set of mains [is] a competitive advantage of the high end, it's not fun for people who do it,”

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I like you... you can tell the no lifers who so vigorously defend this asinine system are very scared they might not be able to compete if the playing field is leveled a bit.

First of all, way to revert to your liberal mentality of name calling someone who doesnt agree with you. Theres nothing being taken advantage of other than raiding with 20+ people who are all dedicated to doing everything they can to improve their characters. Thats called competition. Are pro football players taking advantage of something by working out more than other people? No.

You really have no fucking clue.

[IceMan1763]

First of all, way to revert to your liberal mentality of name calling someone who doesnt agree with you. Theres nothing being taken advantage of other than raiding with 20+ people who are all dedicated to doing everything they can to improve their characters. Thats called competition. Are pro football players taking advantage of something by working out more than other people? No.

You really have no fucking clue.

The correct analogy would be that time spent practicing DIRECTLY correlated to having improved equipment when they stepped foot on the field on Sunday. Even for NFL players, practice has limits to the advantage they can gain and nothing is guaranteed about it. Not the same as Legion's Mythic raiding paradigm AT ALL. Also, you're comparing people playing WOW to NFL football players whose job it is. Can your head fit inside a doorway with your inflated ego? You must be compensating for something...

You analogy is stupid, like you.

[Deleted]

Any change that reduces the possibility for abuse or exploitation is a win in my books.
I welcome this change.

Is that a book to read to little childrens before bedtime?

[Jastall]

Why do people keep parroting this as it was actually an option? Master looter is optimal, and thus mandatory. There is no option.

And it was optimal because being able to gear raiders on a case by case basis is better than relying on the RNG for everything.

Just like if players had had a choice between getting RNG legendaries or choosing which legendary they get each time, they would use the second option. Players want control, they don't want the roll of the dice to be the sole deciding factor on what loot they get.

The solution to the problem is not to gut the option that allows for player control and leave everyone with the randomized mess. Not this half-baked brainfart that doesn't solve corrupt loot councils and barely does anything to split runs.

[Cebel]

The correct analogy would be that time spent practicing DIRECTLY correlated to having improved equipment when they stepped foot on the field on Sunday. Even for NFL players, practice has limits to the advantage they can gain and nothing is guaranteed about it. Not the same as Legion's Mythic raiding paradigm AT ALL. Also, you're comparing people playing WOW to NFL football players whose job it is. Can your head fit inside a doorway with your inflated ego? You must be compensating for something...

You analogy is stupid, like you.

Enjoy your infraction, because apparently in 3 years you've never managed to learn how to talk to people without name calling. Yet im the one compensating. Im not compensating for shit, nor was I talking about american football. Lmao.

God forbid someone have a different perspective on things than you. You liberals and your "equality" breaking news: More time invested = more gear. It's just like real life. Invest your time into things, and you'll reap the rewards. Sorry you cant comprehend that. Probably explains why you resort to name calling right out of the gates instead of trying to think things through logically. Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror.

[Auberdeen]

Method is like the only guild that requires 5+ characters per player. Banning that kind of behavior seems reasonable. Anything to make the playing field more fair. Maybe we'd see more new blood.

The issue with split raiding isnt how fast a raid is cleared, it's how unfair it is to new potential WF raiders.

*its not how fast you clear, its how well you clear fast!*

[IceMan1763]

Enjoy your infraction, because apparently in 3 years you've never managed to learn how to talk to people without name calling. Yet im the one compensating. Im not compensating for shit, nor was I talking about american football. Lmao.

God forbid someone have a different perspective on things than you. You liberals and your "equality" breaking news: More time invested = more gear. It's just like real life. Invest your time into things, and you'll reap the rewards. Sorry you cant comprehend that. Probably explains why you resort to name calling right out of the gates instead of trying to think things through logically. Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror.

I'm sorry but when you start comparing yourself to NFL players you deserve to be made fun of and it fit quite well with your assumption in regard to my political leanings... which are too complex to explain to your simple mind but let's just say that we probably have voted together 90% of the time or more. I'm actually on your side of the aisle except I'm not a troll who calls anyone or anything they don't like a liberal.

More time invested = more gear hasn't been true of raiding for most of WOW's lifetime. There were always limits to it, and Legion just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt of why those limits are important. Accusing me of not thinking logically is rich coming from someone who compares the mythic raiding environment in WOW to the NFL... LOL!! I love how you're trying to teach life lessons in WOW... more work = you get more son that's life DRRR DRRR DRRRR. Except this isn't life... it's WOW... but maybe it IS life to you and that's the perspective you're talking about?

Also I only name call in response because it's funny how riled up you trolls get when you get every "argument" you make, if we can call them that, countered so thoroughly, obviously, and immediately that you start calling people names like "Liberal" or "twat" because you are incapable of making a sound or logical argument.

[NihilSustinet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3nWMlxf4lI

I've never disagreed more with a video. Why are high end raiders complaining their taking Master loot away? I thought high end raiders hated being forced to do split runs? Don't guilds like Method hate running 5+ characters through heroic every week? Wouldn't forcing personal loot make it easier for other guilds to compete with method? Why are people complaining about removing Master loot as an option? Aren't you tired of Method winning every single race? Don't you want more people to take up high end raiding?

What's wrong with forcing it for a few weeks until a few guilds have killed the final boss on mythic? Or restricting heroic clears per account during the WF race and banning account sharing players?

the death of ML is the nail in the coffin of hardcore WoW raiding. if split raiding is such a problem, then maybe make raiding harder to get into? no one was split raiding vanilla naxx. most people didnt have more than 1 or 2 attuned characters in TBC. bring back actually making raiding epic, and having bars for entry, and the split raid problems goes away. the guild should decide where loot goes, not RNG.

[Daevied]

i am pretty casual, and i assure you i will stop raiding if they force personal loot on my guild raid. Thats idiotic, if you want to stop split runs, make normal and heroic lockout as mythic again

[Eapoe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3nWMlxf4lI

I've never disagreed more with a video. Why are high end raiders complaining their taking Master loot away? I thought high end raiders hated being forced to do split runs? Don't guilds like Method hate running 5+ characters through heroic every week? Wouldn't forcing personal loot make it easier for other guilds to compete with method? Why are people complaining about removing Master loot as an option? Aren't you tired of Method winning every single race? Don't you want more people to take up high end raiding?

What's wrong with forcing it for a few weeks until a few guilds have killed the final boss on mythic? Or restricting heroic clears per account during the WF race and banning account sharing players?

It takes away choice in its current system (can't trade a higher ilvl than you already have) which is a downer for someone that, for example, gets a versatility/mastery ring which is bad for them but BiS for others.
Method will still do split runs and personal loot will have very little to do with a world 1st race. Yes, it will possibly effect those guilds that always compete for it, but it will have little bearing on more normal set raid time progression guilds in keeping up with Method and the others.
For people like me that have bad luck with Personal Loot systems (weeks on end with no upgrades/duplicate gear/etc) it is a downer. Bosses that have multiple items and BiS and only having 1 chance for that piece to drop for you is aggravating. The opposite end of the spectrum also exists, but for people like me who tend to have bad luck with the system it is a poor concept to accept.
It also enforcers more of a solo style play, as guilds tend to not give trials loot over people who have been around for months. When you can effectively guild hop and be a perpetual trial while never actually sticking with a guild, why wouldn't you?
Also, the biggest question to ask is: why is Blizzard even changing it? There is no need to enforce this style of gameplay. Period.

[burek]

And it was optimal because being able to gear raiders on a case by case basis is better than relying on the RNG for everything.

Just like if players had had a choice between getting RNG legendaries or choosing which legendary they get each time, they would use the second option. Players want control, they don't want the roll of the dice to be the sole deciding factor on what loot they get.

The solution to the problem is not to gut the option that allows for player control and leave everyone with the randomized mess. Not this half-baked brainfart that doesn't solve corrupt loot councils and barely does anything to split runs.

If that was the case, everyone would have chosen the same 2 legendaries and then started to cry there was nothing to do in the game. Additionally, if all gear was obtained from vendors, aka giving players complete control, gear as it is would be pointless, everyone would wear the same sets. Giving players too much control is obviously not a good thing for the game.

The current situation is a complete mess anyway, leaving it as it is is not good for anyone. Splits negatively affect everyone raiding mythic.

[tru]

High end I doubt uses it idk how you force it upon a whole guild on the same server....if blizz truly balanced classes then there wouldn't be any giving gear to the op bear and top fotm specs but that's how it is. But I'm not in the top 0.0001% and never will be so my opinion doesn't matter

[Jastall]

If that was the case, everyone would have chosen the same 2 legendaries and then started to cry there was nothing to do in the game. Additionally, if all gear was obtained from vendors, aka giving players complete control, gear as it is would be pointless, everyone would wear the same sets. Giving players too much control is obviously not a good thing for the game.

The current situation is a complete mess anyway, leaving it as it is is not good for anyone. Splits negatively affect everyone raiding mythic.

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is a poor argument. Of course you still need RNG. But it needs to be in manageable amount; the RNG currently is on what drops (and TFs). Who gets what then is up to players. If PL is the only solution, then not only is the RNG on what drops, but also who gets it so you have almost no control over the loot in the opening weeks when loot matters most. It's going to sting when the Pally in our raid group gets the STR DPS trinket that I need and that he doesn't, but he can't trade it because it WF'd 5 ilvls, and that's only one possibility where forced PL can screw me or someone else over.

And lol at your second statement. Split runs affect a small segment of Mythic raiders who choose to do it, and the changes don't even stop them from happening. Method and the tryhards who think they are Method are just going to run raids full of 1 or 2 classes and choose whichever alt is the luckiest, exactly like they did for Legendaries. This is a dumbass solution to a ''problem'' that affects 1% of 1% of players for a few weeks at most.

[Cebel]

I'm sorry but when you start comparing yourself to NFL players you deserve to be made fun of and it fit quite well with your assumption in regard to my political leanings... which are too complex to explain to your simple mind but let's just say that we probably have voted together 90% of the time or more. I'm actually on your side of the aisle except I'm not a troll who calls anyone or anything they don't like a liberal.

More time invested = more gear hasn't been true of raiding for most of WOW's lifetime. There were always limits to it, and Legion just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt of why those limits are important. Accusing me of not thinking logically is rich coming from someone who compares the mythic raiding environment in WOW to the NFL... LOL!! I love how you're trying to teach life lessons in WOW... more work = you get more son that's life DRRR DRRR DRRRR. Except this isn't life... it's WOW... but maybe it IS life to you and that's the perspective you're talking about?

Also I only name call in response because it's funny how riled up you trolls get when you get every "argument" you make, if we can call them that, countered so thoroughly, obviously, and immediately that you start calling people names like "Liberal" or "twat" because you are incapable of making a sound or logical argument.

You literally dont even read what you're responding too. I didnt compare shit to an NFL player. You call me a troll when clearly you're the one spewing shit onto the keyboard as fast as you can to talk shit. Do the world a favor and go outside.

[kamuimac]

i am pretty casual, and i assure you i will stop raiding if they force personal loot on my guild raid. Thats idiotic, if you want to stop split runs, make normal and heroic lockout as mythic again

the more toxic people will leave the game because of it the better change it is

they should remove mythic alongide with this change would remove even more toxicity with it from game

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High end I doubt uses it idk how you force it upon a whole guild on the same server....if blizz truly balanced classes then there wouldn't be any giving gear to the op bear and top fotm specs but that's how it is. But I'm not in the top 0.0001% and never will be so my opinion doesn't matter

the problem is not with high end - the problem is with every even mediocre idiot copying hardcore model and puting them in every single aspect of game.

it went out of hand so its natural blizzard has to take actions.

[Rampant Rabbit]

Loot councils get to steer loot for the benefit of the raid group, overall. If a plate item drops and 3 different dps classes can use it, it may be BiS for one, and just an upgrade for the other two. Who should get it? If you care about the raid, you give it to the person for whom it is BiS.

There are downsides, but that right there is the upside, to my understanding. If you're not in a competitive guild, then it doesn't really matter either way, but if you're racing for world firsts, giving that bis to the right player matters.

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[kamuimac]

Is that a book to read to little childrens before bedtime?

its quite ironic statement considering how 14 years ago wow was the game adressed as "for the kids and casuals compare to real mmorpgs " from that time

for every Everquest player wow players were the casual scrubs or "little children " how you call them

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Some shitty guilds you've been on. All the way through from WotLK till now? Amazingly unlucky or biased as fuck cause of weird personality.
.

or its very common and you are just part of corrupted system thats why you defend it .

[Cannibalus]

You're obviously not a mythic raider or in the best case scenario you've cleared like 3-4 bosses from current content on Mythic.

Your opinion over raiding and how loot and mounts are distributed is like asking an old lady why Samsung is better than Iphone.

[Vintersol]

11 pages and still that shit thread exists...

[Quoi]

The argument that's pro-ML that I haven't really seen is guild member retention.

For guilds that do DKP or similar, it rewards players for time served, effort in raid etc. DKP with a personal loot system doesn't really work. So a guild won't have that system in place to keep members, or to keep members learning and slogging through learning the bosses. It's harder (read not impossible) to keep members active and focused without a reward system in place (dkp). A personal loot system rewards only the individual, and indirectly the raid/guild. Master looter on the other hand, which I'm sure has been said before, rewards the raid/guild through the effort of the individual.

The arguments against ML being unethical or all of the horrible experiences people have had with ML are valid, but misguided. In a guild/raid/community that is smallish and focuses on raids, that see and interact with each other on a constant basis, will on the high majority of the time have ethical standards when it comes to ML. However, I would say that the majority of raids that are completed pug style, have unethical standards when it comes to ML. I'm all for personal loot being applied to raids form fully pug style, and or LFR. For guilds that raid on a regular constant basis, I'd say keep the ML.