[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Gorsameth]

And WoW does a soft reset every expansion to limit how far beyond new players are.

Its just a really really stupid argument.

[Kyanion]

And ironically the reason CIG say it is ok is because joining a game 10 years after its release will put you at a disadvantage... as if anybody expects otherwise. They do however expect things to be on a reasonably even keel at the game's release.

I mean, look at this tripe


Yet that is precisely what they are doing, offering a power discrepancy from day 1 instead of naturally through the game's evolution, it will also take a non-paying customer a long, long time to even things out (if ever).



So why do CIG say it's a problem for EVE or WoW's situation? Everyone has the opportunity there to earn everything via gameplay yet they make it a point of contention...

Anyone that supports a company like CIG after a stance like that deserves everything they get. They think it is totally okay for a new player to be WAY WAY behind a whale because Johnny CreditCard wants to be number 1. Fuck that. Fuck that game and fuck that company.

I LOVE how they try to compare themselves to long running established games like Eve or WoW, talk about putting yourselves in company you do NOT belong in.

[Eleccybubb]

Anyone that supports a company like CIG after a stance like that deserves everything they get. They think it is totally okay for a new player to be WAY WAY behind a whale because Johnny CreditCard wants to be number 1. Fuck that. Fuck that game and fuck that company.

I LOVE how they try to compare themselves to long running established games like Eve or WoW, talk about putting yourselves in company you do NOT belong in.

Yeah made me chuckle that an unfinished game and it's devs think they are anything close to the quality of Eve or WoW.

This game is lightyears behind the quality of games like that. In fact it's closer to the quality of games like Daikatana or Big Rigs.

[Tech614]

And WoW does a soft reset every expansion to limit how far beyond new players are.

Its just a really really stupid argument.

WoW basically does a soft reset every tier with catch up gear, let alone every expansion. Good players stay ahead in WoW due to organization and dedication not because of in game rewards.

[Kyanion]

Yeah made me chuckle that an unfinished game and it's devs think they are anything close to the quality of Eve or WoW.

This game is lightyears behind the quality of games like that. In fact it's closer to the quality of games like Daikatana or Big Rigs.

Hey now, don't make fun of Daikatana and Big Rigs like that. At least they actually launched!

[Nihilan]

Maybe someone should kick over whatever rock John Romero has been hiding under and send him off to CIG to get the project back on track. After all, Romero at least knows how to actually see a game through to release.

[masterhorus8]

Quote from Chris regarding the UEC cap from the latest RtV:

So I think that in every persistent game that you play, well . . . everyone seems to treat this game like everyone's going to be on the starting line at exactly the same time, and they're racing to a finish line where there can only be one winner. That is totally not the vision of the game, or what the game is being designed for — and in any MMO that I go start playing now, if I go join World of Warcraft or EvE Online now, I'm starting way behind people that have been playing it for years. It doesn't mean that my experience will necessiarily be bad, I'll just be doing different things and different challenges as I work my way up. We already have a certain level of inequality because people have different numbers of ships: some people just have one Aurora, and some have a massive fleet. 150 thousand UEC is nothing compared to an Idris, or a Constellation or a Reclaimer. Also, people were able to buy items — so they could have as many items and ships as possible, but there was this cap. The real reason we changed it wasn't because we were like "hehehe we want to make more money", we actually don't make much from UEC, and most of our revenue tends to be from either new people joining and getting an initial package, or the concept sales that we do.



We didn't want to be in a situation where people couldn't melt the items they bought over the years at completely arbitrary prices — back then we didn't have any idea, we were figuring it out — and now we have a new model for our economy and we're starting to bring it into the game. It's going to be an ongoing process, but the way we value things is based on the raw materials, which have a value, the size and quality has a value, there's brand up-marks, there's a whole formula that we have that will play out when we're crafting stuff down the road. That means we're changing pricing of items and so yeah - if you bought something for 10,000 UEC and now that thing is 4,000 UEC, well I would be pretty pissed — so since we're rebalancing this and wiping the database on every release, we feel like we should let the players melt the items they've purchased with UEC. Then they can buy whatever they want in the new economy that comes out with each new release. So the cap was a problem because there were quite a few people that were over it, and it didn't make sense to penalize these people while others had stockpiled millions of UEC worth of ships.



So in terms of the gameplay itself like I said, a lot of people tend to think of Star Citizen as PvP "there can only be one" highlander-style — but it's not. Yes, if you want to compete with other players and organizations, we're going to put that gameplay in there — but the design of this is to have 90 percent of the universe to be AI. So actually most of the content in the game will be PvE, and it's going to be in fashioned in a way that, if you don't want to deal with PvP, you don't have to. One of the reasons I wanted 90 percent AI population, is, you know, the problem with PvP is that there is always a winner and a loser, and both of those people are players that have paid money to play the game, and not everyone is the best dogfighter or FPS player or trader. The great thing about AI is we can make AI at all levels, so no matter what even if you're a crappy dogfighter you can still take down some AI pirates and feel like, you know, "you're the man". I really want to make sure that is there so people can have a good time — because if you're always competing with players then there will always be winners and losers — and if you're someone that's not that great or don't have enough time to really practice up, that will be a sucky experience and you won't feel like playing.



So I want people that fall into that category to have opportunities to have fun and whip up on some pirates or whatever they want to do, without being forced into head-to-head competition. We're deliberately building the gameplay to have gameplay for people that want to play lone-wolf style — and also for those who want to play in groups, or play with big organizations and fight over territories — for those that want to be more peaceful style to mine or farm or trade or something — or for people that want to do combat-focused things like piracy or mercenary or bounty hunter gameplay. We're building all those things to be in the universe, and to to give you opportunities to do them on both a PvP and PvE basis — and there will be areas where there is cross-over between the two — but it's up to you to do whatever you want to do. This is just how I want to play, how I want the game to be, how I'd like games to be, and so it's completely reflecting how, as a player, I would like. So based on those conditions, I don't see whether it makes a difference, I mean maybe I see two different organizations that want to go to war - they're stressed about how many Idris's and stuff they've got at the start, but even in that case it's like — it's not a sprint, it's a long-term race. The opportunity to earn money in the game, and even do things and earn things you can't get outside of it, is much greater.



I know what we're building, I'm truly aiming to build a game that hits these different spots. Like I said in my letter, it's just a really large tent for everyone. If you want to get in it with other peope, or just by yourself, you can do that, it's really just a destination and a home, and you make it what it is. And in that case, there should not be a concern.

[Kyanion]

"So I think that in every persistent game that you play, well . . . everyone seems to treat this game like everyone's going to be on the starting line at exactly the same time, and they're racing to a finish line where there can only be one winner. That is totally not the vision of the game, or what the game is being designed for — and in any MMO that I go start playing now, if I go join World of Warcraft or EvE Online now, I'm starting way behind people that have been playing it for years. "

Yeah except in the case of Star Citizen if it ever launches the start line will be different for people. And that is a fucked up vision. Yeah I bet people who are not dumping thousand of dollars into the game would LOVE to be way way behind whales. Such fun. Much wow.

And again comparing himself to ANY MMO let alone WoW is fucking laughable.

[Cracked]

FYI they decided not to publish any roadmap updates this week.

Draw your own conclusion. These things hardly make anything go over easier.

[Eleccybubb]

Chris seriously needs to stop comparing his game to WoW. It's nowhere near on par with it. One game is finished and does what is essentially a soft power curve reset every expansion.

If he seriously thinks his game is worthy of the same pedestal as WoW then I'm sorry but he is delusional.

[Cyclone Jack]

He's not comparing SC to WoW, he's using WoW as an example as it is the most recognizable MMO. He could have easily used FFXIV or EQ or Tera to make the same point.

[kenn9530]

"So I think that in every persistent game that you play, well . . . everyone seems to treat this game like everyone's going to be on the starting line at exactly the same time, and they're racing to a finish line where there can only be one winner. That is totally not the vision of the game, or what the game is being designed for — and in any MMO that I go start playing now, if I go join World of Warcraft or EvE Online now, I'm starting way behind people that have been playing it for years. "

Yeah except in the case of Star Citizen if it ever launches the start line will be different for people. And that is a fucked up vision. Yeah I bet people who are not dumping thousand of dollars into the game would LOVE to be way way behind whales. Such fun. Much wow.

And again comparing himself to ANY MMO let alone WoW is fucking laughable.

I find if laughable that a few people are complaining about people buying ships when the game will be primarily focused on PvE, in this game you can make your own end game goals.

PvP is going to be for a small minority and we don't know what the overall mechancs will be like yet, could mean since you have limited access to facilities its harder to replace ships so longer wait times, same goes with equipment, also in areas with proper security you may not even be able to operate at all.

The ships you buy now are nothing but basic shells with standard equipment, who knows how much upgraded equipment will affect performance of even the simpler ships.

If you profession is going to be a pirate then your going to lose access to many things a lawful citizen has access to, a real pirate in this game for example wouldn't just blow every ship up they see, your going to either want to ransom or steal cargo, or kill the crew and take the ship for salavage, just blowing up anyone you see kinda defeats the purpose as you would gain next to nothing.

Plus if someone does attack you can always run away.

[Edge-]

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...ec_p2w_matter/

Recently a few people have voiced their concerns about the removal of the player UEC wallet cap that came with the release of Star Citizen Alpha 3.2. This was done to help smooth over the transition to an in-game economy and to give people that had purchased game items through the now-defunct Voyager Direct web store the ability to ‘melt’ them back for UEC, so they can repurchase new items in-game. As we are going to be rebalancing the pricing and economy as we expand the game, and as we currently reset everyone’s accounts when we release a new patch, we felt it would be unfair to force people to keep items they may have bought at a radically different price. This would have happened if we’d kept the overall hard cap on UEC as many players had amassed a lot more than 150,000 UEC worth of items. We still limit the maximum purchasing to 25,000 UEC a day, but we felt that removing the cap was the right call, especially as with every persistent database reset we need to refund players the UEC they have purchased with money and used to buy in-game items. It’s one thing to lose an item due to gameplay, but it’s a complete other thing to have your game account forcibly reset with each new patch, losing all the items you paid actual money for.

Putting aside the puzzle of why some people don’t have a problem with stockpiling ships or items but a player having more than 150,000 UEC is game breaking, I think it may be useful to revisit Star Citizen’s economic model.

Developing and operating a game of Star Citizen’s ambition is expensive. From day one of the campaign we’ve been quite clear on the economic model for Star Citizen, which is to not require a subscription like many MMOs, but instead rely on sales of initial game packages and in-game money to fund development and online running costs. To ensure money isn’t a deciding factor in progression, the core principle that the game follows is that everything you can obtain with real money, outside of your initial game package, can also be earned in game via normal and fun gameplay. There will also be plenty of things that can only be earned by playing.

There are two types of resource players have that they can contribute to Star Citizen to make it better: time and money. A player that has lots of time but only backed for the basic game helps out by playing the game, giving feedback, and assisting new players. On the flip side, if a player has a family and a demanding job and only has four hours to game a week but wants to spend some money to shortcut the time investment they would need to purchase a new ship, what’s wrong with that? They are helping fund the ongoing development and running costs of the game, which benefits everyone. The exact same ship can be earned through pure gameplay without having to spend any money and the backer that has plenty of time is likely to be better at dogfighting and FPS gameplay after playing more hours to earn the ship. I don’t want to penalize either type of backer; I want them both to have fun. People should not feel disadvantaged because they don’t have time, nor should they feel disadvantaged if they don’t have money. I want our tent to be large and encompass all types of players with varied skill sets, time, and money.

This was the economic approach I proposed out when I first pitched Star Citizen because it is the model as a player I prefer. I don’t like to have to pay a subscription just to play and I hate when things are deliberately locked behind a paywall, but as someone that doesn’t have twenty hours a week to dedicate to building up my character or possessions, I appreciate the option to get a head start if I’m willing to pay a little extra.

Some people are worried that they will be disadvantaged when the game starts for ‘real’ compared to players that have stockpiled ships or UEC. This has been a debate on the forums since the project started, but this is not a concern for me as I know what the game will be and I know how we’re designing it.

There will always be some players that have more than others, regardless of whether they’ve spent more or played more, because people start at different times and play at different paces. This is the nature of persistent MMOs. Star Citizen isn’t some race to the top; it’s not like Highlander where “There can only be one!” It is an open-ended Persistent Universe Sandbox that doesn’t have an end game or a specific win-state. We are building it to cater to players of all skill levels, that prefer PvE or PvP, that like to play solo or in a group or a large organization, that want to pursue various professions, some peaceful and some combat orientated. This is the core philosophy of Star Citizen; there isn’t one path, nor is there one way to have fun.

This may be a foreign concept to gamers as the majority of games are about winning and losing, but Star Citizen isn’t a normal game. It’s a First Person Universe that allows you to live a virtual life in a compelling futuristic setting. You win by having fun, and fun is different things to different people.

The last bit...oh Chris, no...just no.

[Cracked]

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...ec_p2w_matter/



The last bit...oh Chris, no...just no.

Haha, yeah, sounds like Second Life.

[Kyanion]

The last bit...oh Chris, no...just no.

Haha Second Star Citizen Life or Second Star Life Citizen? Hmmm...

- - - Updated - - -

I find if laughable that a few people are complaining about people buying ships when the game will be primarily focused on PvE, in this game you can make your own end game goals.

PvP is going to be for a small minority and we don't know what the overall mechancs will be like yet, could mean since you have limited access to facilities its harder to replace ships so longer wait times, same goes with equipment, also in areas with proper security you may not even be able to operate at all.

The ships you buy now are nothing but basic shells with standard equipment, who knows how much upgraded equipment will affect performance of even the simpler ships.

If you profession is going to be a pirate then your going to lose access to many things a lawful citizen has access to, a real pirate in this game for example wouldn't just blow every ship up they see, your going to either want to ransom or steal cargo, or kill the crew and take the ship for salavage, just blowing up anyone you see kinda defeats the purpose as you would gain next to nothing.

Plus if someone does attack you can always run away.

Are you like a paid shill for these guys? You can speak all the bs you want but the perception to many people that might buy this game is that it is full on P2W but even WORSE it is full on P2W before the game is even released! Every day a new player would be further behind these super whales that are just amassing ships. You even just claim they are buying ships with no upgrades, gee that is where the currency comes in does it not?

Oh in PvP you can just run away? Sure, unless their ship is fucking faster than you because you know, they paid to win before the game came out and you are not on even footing and never will be. You don't KNOW if pvp will be a small minority or not. You are just speaking bs to try and handwave shit away, just like I predicted would happen.

[masterhorus8]

Haha Second Star Citizen Life or Second Star Life Citizen? Hmmm...

How 'bout just Star Life?

[Eleccybubb]

Bloody hell.....

Yeah safe to say this game is going to go down as one of the worst in history if/when it ever launches. Especially when you have a higher up of the team spouting crap like that.

[Kyanion]

Shit, you should be proud, I never, not once, seen someone fitting so much bullshit into a single post, congratulations.

There is just so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to start...

The brainwashing is strong with Star Citizen. Buy now before you are even further behind the super whales! /shill

- - - Updated - - -

How 'bout just Star Life?

ooh I like that one. Star Life, nice and simple and we don't play to win here, just enjoy life in the stars of the gaming world....that you paid thousands of dollars to get ahead in!

- - - Updated - - -

Bloody hell.....

Yeah safe to say this game is going to go down as one of the worst in history if/when it ever launches. Especially when you have a higher up of the team spouting crap like that.

Come on man. It isn't about winning. It is about fun. Now just pay them a lot of money so you can have ENHANCED Fun and be better than others.

[Eleccybubb]

Haha Second Star Citizen Life or Second Star Life Citizen? Hmmm...

- - - Updated - - -



Are you like a paid shill for these guys? You can speak all the bs you want but the perception to many people that might buy this game is that it is full on P2W but even WORSE it is full on P2W before the game is even released! Every day a new player would be further behind these super whales that are just amassing ships. You even just claim they are buying ships with no upgrades, gee that is where the currency comes in does it not?

Oh in PvP you can just run away? Sure, unless their ship is fucking faster than you because you know, they paid to win before the game came out and you are not on even footing and never will be. You don't KNOW if pvp will be a small minority or not. You are just speaking bs to try and handwave shit away, just like I predicted would happen.

I like how people pull the "Oh it's not part of the main game so it's not that bad of a P2W mechanic" crap though....

Like why the fuck does it matter? P2W is still P2W. You can't sugar coat or defend this. What they are doing is actually a disgusting cash grabby move and fully going P2W in an unfinished product.

[Kyanion]

I like how people pull the "Oh it's not part of the main game so it's not that bad of a P2W mechanic" crap though....

Like why the fuck does it matter? P2W is still P2W. You can't sugar coat or defend this. What they are doing is actually a disgusting cash grabby move and fully going P2W in an unfinished product.

Yeah they think it isn't bad so it must be the case for everyone! Never mind the public perception when the game launches and people find out "Hey you'll start fresh, but many people that play this game...well they will be far far ahead of you. Don't pvp, you'll get fucking wrecked. HAVE FUN though!"