Can the Alliance plz get one big victory in BfA?

[Blodia]

Sylvanas losing her home turf, Gilneas being retaken and Horde second-in-command captured is not a victory?

k.

No. For a very simple reason. It all required a Deus Ex Machina from Jaina who's apparently powerful enough to rout Horde armies alone. And the Alliance STILL nearly got whacked.
Why? Nobody fucking knows at this point. Alliance clearly has the means (aka cannons and mortars) to take out the walls on their own. Instead they use siege towers because it's cooler that way. They go to the battle of goddamn Undercity without any means of blight protection, because as we all know Sylvanas and her Forsaken would never EVER use the blight. Both factions spent a fair while in Northrend fighting against the Scourge which has even less qualms about using plagues and other fun stuff, so you'd expect them to at least know how to mitigate it, if not neutralise. But no, it needs Jaina and her magical floating airship to do.
But that's just fluff and details, important only to most grizzled neckbeards. However, then we get the absolute slammer of a cinematic, where Jaina (the mage powerful enough to float a giant battleship and conjure wall-crushing cannons apparently without much effort) doesn't just put the prime target of Alliance intervention on ice and instead stands there looking visibly confused, if not bored. She put Thrall back when he was actually kinda powerful on ice during the post-Wrath Gate Battle of Undercity so you'd expect her to do the same to Sylvanas now, or at least try. But instead she just stands there while Anduin preaches his gospel and Sylvanas just walks towards them unmolested. Why? Who knows. Because.

Alliance gets ONE chance to actually look badass in prepatch, and wastes it because if Alliance (the canonically more numerous, advanced and stronger faction) actually stormed Undercity, blew away the Horde defenses without ex machinas, routed the remaining defenders and actually forced Sylvanas' hand in blighting the area to prevent them from capturing it, then the Horde playerbase would probably require two animated shorts and a cinematic to cope with their hurt fee fees.

[Amaterasu65]

Saurfang was expanded by Blizzard in order for him to resurface as someone who shares the same values as Anduin. He will be probably be established as Warchief in the end of the expansion, and the Alliance will forgive the Horde for all their crimes once again and pin it all on Sylvanas.

That however doesn't mean we're killing Sylvanas, she will have her own save-the-world redemption arc and will be neutral. Nathanos will become the new forsaken leader. Don't forget that Blizzard prepares expansion stories in advance, so they had already made their plans for those characters long now. There's a reason Saurfang and Nathanos are constantly thrown in our faces these days.

Either way, the Alliance won't get any big victory, I came to terms with that. It actually seems that they're gonna make the Alliance do something "grey" that will put them on par with Horde's cruelty, but not quite. In the end, it will be a compromise between the factions but the Alliance will be the losing side again because they'd have lost the most.

The game has been Horde-favored for a while now, from most of the vocal community being Horde, from MoP era switching to Horde for racials (which btw still has effects today, as many alliance guilds go Horde for better recruitment), and of course the heads behind the game are manly Horde fanboys. Despite most alive warcraft 3 characters being Alliance, they'd still focus on creating a story that is favoring the Horde. The Alliance may get more hero portrayal, but that's it. The price for not being an immoral savage warmongering barbarian is to be a punching bag.

I do however see the Siege of Lordaeron as an Alliance victory, but not on the same scale as the burning of Teldrassil was for the Horde. We will never, EVER reach that kind of justice. Only compromises.

[Cosmic Janitor]

For 100% Horde bias, Blizzard sure went to great lengths into turning Sylvanas into Garrosh 2.0 to the point where people are disgusted of it.

I mean, chances are that blizzard actually thinks a large part of the horde players are jacking off to orc porn all day. That is at least what I always felt from blizzard when playing horde the last 13+ years, so killing off the zombie elf is in the right ballpark.

[Knslyr]

Sylvanas losing her home turf, Gilneas being retaken and Horde second-in-command captured is not a victory?

k.

Well, it looks like Sylvanas planned to lure them there from the start after you finish the Darkshore questline.
And the Alliance fell for it, twice. And what saved the Alliance was someone they didn't even include in their plans, so pure luck Anduin didn't lead everyone including himself and Genn to death.

Gotta agree with the Alliance members here, this was two wins for the Horde. But at least the Alliance has the moral high ground, shame this isn't Star Wars though.

[Malikath]

The Horde haven't been aggressive villains since the storyline for Warcraft 2 Wrapped up. Pretty much since storyline of Warcraft 3, the Horde have been more "persecuted / misunderstood anti-hero" types then villains. The Faction conflict in WoW has never been a Black VS White, Heroes VS Villains story. Ever.

lol.
vanilla, BC, Wrath, cata, MoP, WoD, and Legion would like to have a word with you.

[Haven]

Predictable? It has been predictable for years. Horde Wins. The end.
In every story its the same.
The horde player base is super sensitive for some reason, the Alliance loses teldrassil and they get two movies to feel good about it. What do alliance players get? Nothing.

Dude we get our cities raided and our characters killed almost every expansion. Cycling through warchieves like crazy.

No, but it's always the Horde who gets cool stuff and never the Alliance. It's getting tiresome.

That's the price for always having moral high ground.

[Cosmic Janitor]

lol.
vanilla, BC, Wrath, cata, MoP, WoD, and Legion would like to have a word with you.

The only time the Horde as whole was evil was during MoP and now BfA. Doing quests for random apothecaries, greedy goblins or blood thristy orc generals was often localized to small quest lines.

[Toho]

Dude we get our cities raided and our characters killed almost every expansion. Cycling through warchieves like crazy.

Yeah you get content centered around you.
Lucky for you.

[Malikath]

The only time the Horde as whole was evil was during MoP and now BfA. Doing quests for random apothecaries, greedy goblins or blood thristy orc generals was often localized to small quest lines.

the warsong and sylvanus both broke the peace treaty thrall had agreed to with the alliance following the defense of nordrassil.
the warsong invaded ashenvale and sylvanus was kidnapping members of horde and alliance races for the development of the blight.
try again.

also the horde was fully supporting garrosh in cata, right up to and after theramore.
it wasn't until he started going der ork reich that he began to lose allies, or just get rid of them.]
then it was only the orcs borne on azeroth who still supported him.

[Surfd]

lol.
vanilla, BC, Wrath, cata, MoP, WoD, and Legion would like to have a word with you.

The only one of those expansions where the FACTION conflict could be described as Heroes Vs Villains would be MoP, and only because Blizzard INTENTIONALLY AND DELIBERATELY had the Horde co-opted by Garrosh in a slide back to a more old school WC1/2 Horde, to which the rest of the current Horde promptly said "Fuck That Noise" and rebelled against.....

[BlakeArt]

For 100% Horde bias, Blizzard sure went to great lengths into turning Sylvanas into Garrosh 2.0 to the point where people are disgusted of it.

If you're looking for the good side, there is a faction for you : The Alliance. Quoting Ion himself. And by the way, you can't win everything without the drama, so also deal with it. And don't worry, we won't kill her, she will have her redemption and will carry on, hooo if only Garrosh had boobs.

When I think about it, I can understand that destroying Undercity/Lordaeron make sense, I mean, there is nothing left of Teldrassil, so they had to balance it with destroying Undercity, but after everything we lost for free, after years of crying about getting something back, we could have Lordaeron back and that would have been fair. But no. In. Your. Dream.

That exactly the same deal that the one about the High Elves. It would not bother anyone, it has been asked consistently for TEN FREAKING YEARS, and would have make the Alliance fan base happy, noooo, nononononoono, we can't have that, not under "Ion's Watch". That's exactly what Blizzard should have done, announcing the arrival of the High Elves with the battle of Undercity, haha. :')

Beside irony (but, is it ?), we should have seen that on the Horde side, losing Undercity is seen as a big emotional lost and that the mirk of Sylvanas is only a facade, like this, I think that both faction would have been happy. That bombing Lordaeron was unprepared and uncalled for and is the end of something for the Forsaken and I would have been very ok with it. But no, Horde bias BS, we only got Sylvanas taunting us like hell and nothing else.

[Deleted]

0123456789

[Toho]

You're moving your goal posts. However you do have a point.

Since Thrall's horde was formed at the end of warcraft 3 the alliance has always had the upper hand over the horde. Even more so after the death of Garrosh where the alliance occupied Orgrimmar. The horde is and has always been the underdog and the alliance is comfortable in it's position of power.

This is exactly why the horde acts and the alliance doesn't. The alliance doesn't need things to change, they are content with staying on top in their position of power.

It seems like you want it all. To both be the dominant faction and the proactive faction. If they wrote that story the horde would just flat out lose. So yeah, story wise it's boring being part of the greater established power.

Lol such a dumb thing to say.

[Malikath]

The only one of those expansions where the FACTION conflict could be described as Heroes Vs Villains would be MoP, and only because Blizzard INTENTIONALLY AND DELIBERATELY had the Horde co-opted by Garrosh in a slide back to a more old school WC1/2 Horde, to which the rest of the current Horde promptly said "Fuck That Noise" and rebelled against.....

and another whordie who forgot that the garrosh arc started in wrath, he was given the horde by thrall, so no co-opting there, and came to a head in MoP.
this was a 3 expac arc, not a single raid.

did you also forget when garrosh ordered the horde to ambush alliance forces in icecrown? before he ever became warcheif.
try again.

[Deleted]

0123456789

[Surfd]

also the horde was fully supporting garrosh in cata, right up to and after theramore.
it wasn't until he started going der ork reich that he began to lose allies, or just get rid of them.]
then it was only the orcs borne on azeroth who still supported him.

Well yeah. Because up until Theramore, Garrosh really hadn't shown himself to be the Raging Authoritarian Orc-Nazi that he very rapidly devolved into after that point. Once it became obvious exactly what kind of a shitheel Garrosh actually was, pretty much the entire horde other than his cadre of True Believers dumped him like hotcakes.

[|Dexter|]

Remember the Alliance got the Vindicaar one of the most powerfull ships on Azeroth!

[Toho]

That's not much to work with. Care to expand on that?

you are boiling down bad writing by blizzard to alliance loves the status quo.
It explains nothing why they are constantly losing or their leaders are bumbling idiots.

its funny how people use terrible, terrible logic to explain dumb writing decisions.
I still remember than funny scene in MoP that varian was teach Tyrande about forest ambushes.... like WHAT?! did no one at blizzard play WC3?

Remember the Alliance got the Vindicaar one of the most powerfull ships on Azeroth!

Mini-low effort exodar.
WOOOOO!
Horde gets Suramar.

[tankbug]

Saurfang was expanded by Blizzard in order for him to resurface as someone who shares the same values as Anduin. He will be probably be established as Warchief in the end of the expansion, and the Alliance will forgive the Horde for all their crimes once again and pin it all on Sylvanas.

That however doesn't mean we're killing Sylvanas, she will have her own save-the-world redemption arc and will be neutral. Nathanos will become the new forsaken leader. Don't forget that Blizzard prepares expansion stories in advance, so they had already made their plans for those characters long now. There's a reason Saurfang and Nathanos are constantly thrown in our faces these days.

I agree. If we're gonna go Garrosh again, then we'll get a Garrosh ending too.

Either way, the Alliance won't get any big victory, I came to terms with that. It actually seems that they're gonna make the Alliance do something "grey" that will put them on par with Horde's cruelty, but not quite. In the end, it will be a compromise between the factions but the Alliance will be the losing side again because they'd have lost the most.

I hope so! The alliance can have as many victories as they want for all I care, as long as they stoop to the same level as Sylvanas, getting internal struggles, and need the good parts of the remaining Horde to help them set things straight again. That would put some balance back into it again.

The game has been Horde-favored for a while now, from most of the vocal community being Horde, from MoP era switching to Horde for racials (which btw still has effects today, as many alliance guilds go Horde for better recruitment), and of course the heads behind the game are manly Horde fanboys. Despite most alive warcraft 3 characters being Alliance, they'd still focus on creating a story that is favoring the Horde. The Alliance may get more hero portrayal, but that's it. The price for not being an immoral savage warmongering barbarian is to be a punching bag.

I do however see the Siege of Lordaeron as an Alliance victory, but not on the same scale as the burning of Teldrassil was for the Horde. We will never, EVER reach that kind of justice. Only compromises.

That the more hardcore player base leans towards Horde isn't favoritism from Blizzard though. I mean, if people think that Thrall and Grom are badass, and want to play as orcs, then it would be wrong for Blizzard to make orcs shitty just to balance things out. I don't see any favoritism in the favor of the Horde since Cataclysm. Cairne, who hadn't spoken a word since War3, was killed off in a book, Garrosh broke the strength of the Horde in his insanity, Thrall went limp and hasn't recovered, Voljin is dead, Baine still does nothing, Saurfang is broken and captured, and who cares about that belf lord and goblin king? Sylvanas is the only strong character left, and she's evil, annoying and doesn't represent the Horde in any way. WoD, although mainly about orcs, was not a Horde focused/favored expansion. Khadgar is your leader, and still is in Legion, but here all the alliance heroes shine as well. Horde gets nothing. The lore is based on the heroes. Not about battle statistics, like death toll, cost, ground gained/lost etc. Alliance wants revenge? You already have it. How proud is the Horde these days? What would they fight for? Would they rather have Undercity, or is the burning tree such a victory for them that they would gladly do it again, given the chance?

[Blodia]

Remember the Alliance got the Vindicaar one of the most powerfull ships on Azeroth!

And it will conveniently float on high Azeroth orbit forever, gathering dust. It will NEVER appear in any major battle unless it is to showcase the newest anti-air throwing axes of the Horde that will shoot it down.