Is WoW dying.. or are Mmorpgs dying ?

[Kallisto]

they were never big success to count them in first place, only FF online passed wow during WoD then blizz stopped posting about how many active subs they have
is wow dying yes, but nothing stop wow from coming back
can wow comeback ? no idea, i do hope so

No it didn't. Last sub call for wow was about 5.5m subs after a 100k sub drop. Ff14 ARR boasted 2 million sales not subs but sales, like when blizzard talked about the 100million subs created over wow lifespans at start if mop.

Neither game is detailing sub numbers but even square Enix doesn't think they're getting more subs than wow. If they did they'd at least hint at it.

[probert]

Open world games have gotten larger, more complex, and borrowed a lot of MMO tropes over the years. So the 'large open world' experience is no longer an MMO exclusive.

WoW was so big and so dominant, that it stiffled evolution by most of its competition. You weren't launch an MMO to compete with WoW -- you were launching an MMO to compete with 5-10 years of WoW including all of its improvements and social ties.

Finally, WoW's design and economics is chasing people away at this point. Bad design decisions, coupled with atrophy of community due to design decisions, coupled with the sandpaper of having to pay monthly access, has discouraged players from remaining online.

WoW is in a long, slow decline since Cata. It accelerated during WoD, had a brief bounce back during Legion, but has returned to its decline.

IMHO its accelerating as Blizzard seems to have lost its mojo. BFA seems to have become stale much faster than any expansion previously. I've spent most of my last month of subscription chasing achievements in legacy content. I don't even think I'll activate a token for 8.1 unless its really well received by my guild mates...

[StrawberryZebra]

The MMORPG genre is certainly less popular than it once was. I disagree with many here that it's because gamers no longer want what an MMORPG offers, in fact I think they want it MORE now than ever before, only that other genres now do what the MMORPG does better;

• PvPers are much better served in MOBA, Battle Royale and similar genres. They put a much greater emphasis on skill than on gear disparity, making them more appealing to those looking to triumph without the gear grind. There is a vocal minority of people who want world PvP of course, but I'd wager most of them are simply looking to grief lower level players more than they're looking for competative PvP engagements.
• Those looking to play games on a more social basis have console tools to do that, phone games, games integrated into facebook and so on. They no longer need a complete MMO world to just hang out with their friends in. Their needs are met elsewhere.
• People looking for CO-OP RPG's usually find their needs better served by titles like Dark Souls or Divinity Original Sin that provide tough content that's rewarding to beat and have plenty of replayability.
• Anyone looking for super challenging content will generally find their needs better met by the indie market.

With that in mind, what do MMORPG's offer that's really unique to them, something that no other genre can offer? Large group content perhaps, but we're slowly moving to a place where CO-OP games are capable of delivering on this too, albeit in a less organised fashion... I'm struggling to come up with a suitableanswer here.

MMORPG's try to offer something for everyone. That makes sense as a way to get people to jump in with their friends who may have different in game goals. But it means that an MMORPG will never be able to deliver as well on one particular aspect as other genres do.

All the people I used to raid with are now gone and there's this awkward social barrier that I just can't seem to break now. Making friends in the game just feels harder than ever.

I'm in the same situation as you are. I stopped playing at the end of WotLK and returned to WoW about a month ago. The guild I was in has either moved servers or been disbanded, the friends I had haven't logged on in years and my server is pretty much dead. Meeting new people and making new friends is hard now .

[Relapses]

I think it's more that gaming and gamers have changed than anything else.

WoW had its prime in WotLK. It's over. Gaming has moved on to things like Battle Royals and League of Legends.

...however, if you believe trends are cyclical it's possible that WoW could have a second rush of popularity in the future. Blizzard has done a damned good job keeping the game relevant all these years.

[probert]

This. I remember one of WoW early days' devs (maybe it was Mark Kern? Not sure though) saying that they were expecting no more than 500 or 600k subscribers, maybe 800k in their wildest dreams. And lo and behold...

Besides, the whole argument of "ppl have grown up and have less time to play" is just dumb. Granted, I was only 14 or so when I started playing Vanilla, but there were plenty of grown-ups in my guild back then. Didn't they have any jobs, family, hobbies, w/e? Anyway, the cardinal sins of many MMOs are 1) casting aside the RPG part (often in the name of "balance") and 2) locking the fun parts behind monumental grinds or other sorts of meaningless chores. That is, assuming they don't go full P2W like Blade and Soul or crap alike.

Everquest was considered ridiculously popular, and it had 300,000 paying subscribers.

Blizzard were being incredibly optimistic aiming for 6-800,000. By the end of their first year, they had 2 million players and had stopped selling retail copies as they worked to scale up internal support and logistics.

[Justpassing]

What other MMOs?

[crusadernero]

The genre is dying because right now its not "trending", and many mmos has strained from what MMORPGs are about. WoW is a good example, and I can understand why. They have moved towards a more fast paced, quickly consumed playstyle that suits gamers more now than before.

Whatever they bring into the game that requires time commitment, you often get the "but, but I have a job & life, I dont have time for this. Its unfair." comments.

its a difficult balance. Stick to the traditional MMORPG style, or adapt without changing to much.

[Onikaroshi]

Everquest was considered ridiculously popular, and it had 300,000 paying subscribers.

Blizzard were being incredibly optimistic aiming for 6-800,000. By the end of their first year, they had 2 million players and had stopped selling retail copies as they worked to scale up internal support and logistics.

So basically, wow was anomaly (definitely) and right now we're just on the decline back to what MMO's were always at, not really dying. People who say otherwise just don't understand it I guess.

[Geckoo]

Basically MMORPG's, mostly WoW, played a big role in the evolution of online gaming, but MMORPG's as a genre did not evolve alongside. Some MMORPG's improved certain aspects of the formula over the years, but none of them pushed it forward.

The only project that tried, in their premise, to evolve the genre was probably Everquest Next and it got cancelled because it was not fun (that's what the devs said).

My guess is that although the genre is certainly not dead, it is living from it's past and that won't last forever. But i also think that as VR improves so do the chances to see MMORPG's make a big evolution jump, it's probably far far away, but it will eventually happen.

[Weeps]

WoW is easily one of the most successful games of ALL TIME. 15 years of $15 a month subs!

That's $2,700 per person over the course of 15 years of uninterrupted sub payments. For fun let's multiply that by 2 million people who've subbed for 15 years.

$5,400,000,000.00

$5.4 billion dollars. They've definitely made more than that, I was low-balling it.

Will Overwatch last 15 years? I doubt it.
Will Hearthstone last 15 years? I doubt it.

Could wow survive another 10 years? With the right decisions, they could. That's another 4-5 expansions.

[Kithelle]

wow has been daying since the day it released. By developer decision or tastes of the new generation of kids vs the old is irrelevant. The game is 15 years old, it could be the best thing since sliced bread and its not going to hold everyones attention that long.

mmorpgs litereally only need a few tens of thousands of subscribers to stay profitable, so id imagine wow will carry on for more time than youll want to keep playing it. (unfortunately for the industry imo)

and no, the genre isnt dying. its healthier now than its ever been in the regards which your referring to (i assume).

Healthier now than it has ever been? Hardly...

There hasn't been a strong MMORPG that has been released since FFXIV relaunched...as someone who enjoys them, the last few I've kept my eye on for release in the US have all tanked. Rift and Archeage my be set to shut down soon...

The genre is perhaps in the weakest state I've ever seen it in since I started playing SWG all of those years ago.

The MMORPG market just isn't advancing and if something revolutionary doesn't come out (Because odds are it wont with how dangerous and expensive the genre is) it is in a lot of trouble.

[Deleted]

The genre isn't dying, it's just not at its peak anymore.

Peak was around 2009-2011, with WoW's subs being at its all time high and a slew of other MMOs being funded and released to big hype.

It was also right off the tail of one of the biggest economic disasters in history, where many people started seeking out alternate and affordable kinds of entertainment, your average MMO is still an incredible bang for your buck.

In short, no. We just haven't seen another runaway success like WoW yet. It'll happen sooner or later.

[Beerbill Society]

It's the cycle of life, everything ends.

About MMO dying is possible, not actually a bad thing. A new genre may come up, the whole concept of massive multiplayer itself has been degrading over the years.
GTA V may be considered MMO for example.

[Kathranis]

The genre has been in decline since MOBAs hit the scene, and now with the rise of the Battle Royale genre it's two whole fads behind the curve.

I mean, isn't it kind of telling that the most successful MMORPGs currently on the market are 5-15 years old, and that there aren't really any major new titles on the horizon?

What are the most recent successes, really? ESO? GW2? Going back further than that, you're basically left with FFXIV and SWTOR as the winners of this decade, and they launched in 2010 and 2011 respectively. Before that you've pretty just got WoW and EVE, and I guess DFO if you're looking internationally. Even major predecessors to WoW like EQ only managed a fraction of its success and are just barely clinging to life today if they aren't long dead.

Sure, there have been a few other blips on the radar, but can you really say that BDO, Rift, Pantheon, etc. are anywhere close to what was experienced in the heyday?

[Deleted]

The mmo genre is now stagnate because it is just too risky to innovate at the expense of budget and compete with WoW. The only way I can see another "WoW" success is to succeed with 3 major criteria:

1) A super popular, well established IP with a huge existing fan base. (Such as Star Wars, Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls ect)

2) A massive budget which is very hard to obtain since no one willing to back unless you play it safe and do a standard WoW theme park (Which has lead to all the WoW clones).

3) Nail the gameplay and next gen the shit out of the genre. IMO Everquest Next had this going for them with their ambitious game systems, too bad they didn't have the funds required in point 2.

Making a theme park WoW clone with points 1 & 2 just isn't enough. Final Fantasy A Realm Reborn is an example of this with a strong IP, Lots of funds but despite solid gameplay was still a safe themepark mmo and did not do reinvent the wheel (they did the best they could based on the limitations of the first iteration of FFXIV).

Basically a new MMORPG needs to do what WoW did back in 2004. Nail all 3 points.

[Kryos]

What do you know, another new account telling everyone how WoW is dying. Who do you work for?

He seems to be someone like me who plays WoW since 2005 and other MMORPGs before that and also played many other MMORPGs like SWTOR, Conan, Warhammer Online, Rift, Tera and others. So if you follow the genre, you notice that it's in a massive decline and only WoW seems to be able to keep the player base more or less intact. But recently even the hardcore base of WoW players seems to crumble. So if the last bastion of MMORPGs is in decline it looks like the whole genre is on an downward spiral.

[Kathranis]

Will Overwatch last 15 years? I doubt it.
Will Hearthstone last 15 years? I doubt it.

Yes, WoW is incredibly successful and continues to rake in tons of dough.

However, you're not factoring in development costs and you're underestimating the benefits of being multiplatform and the strength of microtransactions.

Hearthstone, for example, was initially developed by a team of only 15 people, and it's available on both PC and mobile. Overwatch likewise has a comparatively small team and is multiplatform.

HS and OW may not have the long lifespan of WoW, but they're a hell of a lot cheaper to develop, more broadly appealing, and easier to market. They don't need to have a 15-year tail end, either. They have more than made back their money; Blizzard could easily produce sequels or major version upgrades for either of them to renew interest.

The truth is that these smaller games that target more specific audiences are a much better investment than developing a new MMORPG in 2018+ would ever be, and IMO it's highly unlikely we'll see Blizzard develop a new true MMORPG in the same vein as WoW in the forseeable future.

[VincentWolf]

Mmos are long since dead. WoW only keeps afloat thanks to all the advertisement it gets and also thanks to chinese farmers.

[Deleted]

other mmos dont even exist

[miwonehema]

Well, WoW is dying since WotLK already. I remember when people rage quitted. becaujse questing and Naxxramas redo were so casual.

People said wow was dying in TBC when paladins/druids became viable tanks, and when raids were shifted down to 25man