Lydia Bottegoni and Terran Gregory - How Women Came To Rule The World Of Warcraft

[thilicen]

This is seriously getting pathetic. Get the fuck over it already.

[Zandalariprelate]

Oh boy this thread will go wild

[Daniri]

Well das a bait title if I ever saw one.

Also Forbes, so does anyone have the bullet points for those of us who can't get past their ad wall?

• It happened naturally
• Jaina, Sylvanas and Azshara have been built up for years
• It's about having interesting characters, not balancing gender ratios
• Metzen pitched Yrel as a draenei Joan of Arc
• Making cinematics is hard and fun

[Mazinger-Z]

Stories are rarely served by promoting women due to the positive sexism that continues while minimizing negative sexism (the having your cake and eat it issue).

In video games, this is known as the Galbrush Paradox:

In the Monkey Island series, Guybrush Threepwood is the main character. He wants to be a pirate, but he's socially inept, lacking in self-awareness, and generally the last person you'd think to be a pirate. Flynn Fairwind he is not. Not a single character in the game respects him. They barely acknowledge his achievements. They consider him annoying at best. The only reason he succeeds is because of the player at the controls, and even that looks like an accident. The only person who seems to like him is his love interest Elaine Marley, a perfectly capable woman and island governor, and she can be patronizing as hell. But he loves her.

Consider the reaction if the main character was a woman. Inept. Lacking in self-awareness. No one takes her seriously. She's never given credit for what she does. And her love interest Elon Marley, a perfectly capable man and island governor, was patronizing as hell to her. But she's madly in love with him. Imagine the critic reviews on that piece of work.

Guybrush works because its okay to create a humorous character being deprecated by everyone around him if its a guy. Without the player, he'd probably be still faffing about Melee Island (starting area).

This continues to reveal itself in stuff like the recent Avengers movie (Infinity War). Wife practically eye-rolled when all the female characters ended up in their own fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oun-sgQbssQ

Compare that to Japan, which has no real qualms with women and mean beating the crap out of one another, with the women either winning or lose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t8G2dNwNGs (Fairy Tail: Erza vs Azuma, she gets thrashed during the first half, wins second half)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKFAEc9zOLM (Boku no Hero Academia: Ochako vs Bakguo, she gets completely trashed)

This is why we've had a cultivation of female leadership. Western culture is at a weird point where it wants to promote gender equality, but is very worried about writing any conflict where the man gets the better of a woman. Therefore women can take the roles of men, but their adversaries must all be women. It's the only way to create the appropriate tension and allow the protagonist to get beat up without someone shouting sexism from the rooftops because the male character managed to land a brutal blow. The only way a man becomes the enemy is if his defeat is rather decisive and without serious injury to the woman protagonist.

This isn't an indictment of the attempt to create gender equality in narratives and gaming, but pointing out that society hasn't taken the full step.

They wouldn't enjoy Batwoman getting her back broken by Bane and the long arduous journey she has to make to recovery and overcoming him in the third act. People would have called it misogyny or abuse or whatever. But Batman can do it and it's considered part of his journey in the story.

Another point is the Greymane vs Sylvanas in Legion. Nathanos acts as her proxy on the Alliance airship. In the fight at the end of the story, only Greymane suffers any serious wounds. Sylvanas... has a lamp broken.

[Sethus]

The same plague is destroying movies and games.

[tumppu]

Tbh Legion as an expansion only put lots of spotlight on Thalyssra's role from all the possible females, other female characters got really side-lined, Liadrin didn't do much, Tyrande was shown as semi-incompetent, Mayla was struggling, Maiev got completely sidelined after Cathedral dungeon quest and all the spotlight was going to Illidan, Velen, Turalyon and Khadgar.

Out of all those listed, I liked Mayla the best. You know, female thrust suddenly into a leadership role and actually struggling and seeming like, well, human. Or tauren in her case.

[Blayze]

Out of all those listed, I liked Mayla the best. You know, female thrust suddenly into a leadership role and actually struggling and seeming like, well, human. Or tauren in her case.

Mayla was underused; Jale did more than she did.

[MikeBogina]

Love female characters, hate when it's talked about as female empowerment though. Make it feel organic, don't make it feel artificial.I think Blizzard knows better to go full retard like Disney did with "The Force is Female" because they actually make a lot of their females antagonistic and heroic.

If we look at both islands, you have the evil BloodTrolls that is female dominated, Lady Ashvane and Waycrest hags and we have Azshara(naga's are female dominated) and G'huun who is a giant vaggine monster. There's also Knaifu, Yrel, Jaina and Sylvanas in very antagonistic roles aswell.

Then for heroism, you have Talanji, Calia, Katherine, Meerah, Nisha and other lesser characters.

I think it's completely fine the way it is now, but going forward... maybe not go so hard on female characters since it feels like 75% of wow is now female.

[shadowmatrix]

What happened to the times when people were hired for their skill, rather than their gender?

It never existed, if it did the country wouldn't have required laws to make sure anyone who wasn't a White male got equal pay or equal work.

[MikeBogina]

Tbh Legion as an expansion only put lots of spotlight on Thalyssra's role from all the possible females, other female characters got really side-lined, Liadrin didn't do much, Tyrande was shown as semi-incompetent, Mayla was struggling, Maiev got completely sidelined after Cathedral dungeon quest and all the spotlight was going to Illidan, Velen, Turalyon and Khadgar.

How are you going to mention Khadgar who did nothing on Argus and ignore Alleria who basically had the most spotlight of that patch? :O

Also what female characters would you want to go face the Legion on Argus that had more of a reason, over Illidan and Velen?

I mean I'm Horde and I would have liked at least one of the Horde characters to have been there doing something, at least there was females

[Deleted]

Well my favourite character Jaina has been more interesting in this expansion than she been has since she was introduced in Wc3, the current story team will get no hate from me

I love how the lore is evolving. It's still not that great but that's more to do with the limits of an MMO, but I do enjoy it. I love characters like Genn and Jaina and Nathanos, the story team has did them wonders.

[DemonHunter18]

Also what female characters would you want to go face the Legion on Argus that had more of a reason, over Illidan and Velen?

I mean I'm Horde and I would have liked at least one of the Horde characters to have been there doing something, at least there was females

Tyrande and Maiev.

although they shouldn't have done the Emerald Nightmare crap all over again.

[Mad_Murdock]

Out of all those listed, I liked Mayla the best. You know, female thrust suddenly into a leadership role and actually struggling and seeming like, well, human. Or tauren in her case.

Sadly, I can't stand her. Well, technically I can't stand her voice. If they would have used any other voice I probably wouldn't hate that character so much. The biggest thing I don't like about Highmountain is having to listen to the female Tauren voices

Funny enough I had a similar problem with Yrel, I couldn't take her serious because it's the same voice as the Priestess follower in Diablo3 and they made her sound like a bobble head. And so when Yrel talks I just hear "Do you think my clothes are too small?"

[MikeBogina]

Tyrande and Maiev.

Uhh... why?

Tyrande's people, her goddess and her beloved are all on Azeroth and she's never had a connection to the Legion besides surviving 2 invasions(now 3). Maiev's all about imprisoning Illidan and loving her onee-chan and the former is already no longer an issue.

Neither character have a reason to go to Argus, nor do they have a connection or relation to Sargeras. Velen not only was one of the 3 leaders of the Eredar and has spoken to Sargeras, but Argus is home world. Illidan has also spoken with Sargeras and he even created his own demon faction to fight them and take out their worlds.

[DemonHunter18]

Uhh... why?

revenge.

besides, this was an all out war against the Legion.

having Azeroth's strongest warriors helping on Argus would be a great help IMO (leaving a few commanders to defend Azeroth ofc).

tbh, Legion's defeat sucked.

[Daniri]

Uhh... why?

Tyrande's people, her goddess and her beloved are all on Azeroth and she's never had a connection to the Legion besides surviving 2 invasions(now 3). Maiev's all about imprisoning Illidan and loving her onee-chan and the former is already no longer an issue.

Neither character have a reason to go to Argus, nor do they have a connection or relation to Sargeras. Velen not only was one of the 3 leaders of the Eredar and has spoken to Sargeras, but Argus is home world. Illidan has also spoken with Sargeras and he even created his own demon faction to fight them and take out their worlds.

Maiev has no "onee-chan", and every character on Azeroth has a reason to go to Argus when it's been brought to their orbit. The defeat of the Legion should not have been a personal story for a couple of characters.

[Th3Scourge]

Amazing... where are all the intersectional lefties that are crawling all over MMO-C? When it affects them they are nowhere to be seen.

...Or do they just dwell in general OT?

Good to know that Blizzard is more worried about “muh representation” than producing anything of quality in 2018

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Maiev has no "onee-chan"

Clearly you missed the constant flirting during Cathedral of Eternal Night. Nobody's that committed to the hunt just for job satisfaction.

[Deleted]

Anybody bitching about it or making this out to be some gender thing is a fucking retard full stop. Barring Talanji all these female characters have been major lore figures from the get go. They're getting some light now because the rest of the male characters (arthas, thrall, tirion, kael'thas, ETC ETC ETC) have all served their fucking purpose in the story they were trying to tell. As if we don't still have major male characters at the forefront with Anduin, Saurfang, Garithos, Malfurion, Vol'Jin, Bwomsamdi

Not fooling anyone. Talanji, jaina, anduin, tyrande, sylvanas, aszhara, it's one big PC pussyfest. And it's no coincidence that's a hot topic.

Hell even saurfang was made into a lefty.

[tumppu]

Sadly, I can't stand her. Well, technically I can't stand her voice. If they would have used any other voice I probably wouldn't hate that character so much. The biggest thing I don't like about Highmountain is having to listen to the female Tauren voices

Funny enough I had a similar problem with Yrel, I couldn't take her serious because it's the same voice as the Priestess follower in Diablo3 and they made her sound like a bobble head. And so when Yrel talks I just hear "Do you think my clothes are too small?"

YMMV. I can't stand Tyrande, and occasionally Jaina. Former is almost a meme of a useless mate at this point and latter WAS a meme, but is trying to shrug some of that load off her. Sylvanas? Well, she's basically a female Garrosh. Or worse.

Yrel vs. Eirena? Never made the connection, but that's actually hilarious.