BFA biggest issues for collectors.

[Djuntas]

Since the way general moves these day, I wanted to re-post my old thread here in this sub forum.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...for-collectors

If mods dont like that, feel free to lock this.

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This thread I make now, goes over points I dont like about BFA from a collectors POV, which is yes, not many of us (Honestly, in WOD it was only like 50.000 players in WoW who truely grinds a lot....wonder what that number is now) is still a part of wow's playerbase.

1. A lot of worldquest this time is bound to achivements. Lucky addons like worldquestachiver helps on this, but its still stupid to keep achivements on RNG waiting. Legion also did this quit a bit, but BFA is even more - Also the new 8.1 achivements/collecting-WQs are heavy RNG, where you need the right zone with the right invasion WQ.

2. With BFA I had hoped they adressed vicisous saddeles, and in general made PvP more....Friendly, to all players. I dont know why I thought they would do this, but I did.

3. The "Tour" achivements for conquer of Azeroth screams win-trading, and every time I see somebody on the mount I check their achivement dates, and many times its win-traded aka they did the kills on same day for many of the achivements. I have 1 zone done so far...Been slacking sure, still avoid win-trading achivements, cause WE WILL win-trade with these systems...Think about bloodthirsty title how many win-trade that or abuse pvp systems back in 2012 etc.

4. Allied races. Why did all these things have their own achivement? You seriously want collectors to re-level classes they already have at 110? Also not allowing boost for achivements? Screw the transmog set, but at least make the boost count...missed $$$ !

5. Hord and alliance - SO MANY rewards are hord or alliance, aka I haft to play hord to get many of the rewards in BFA and vice versa if you are on hord. This is poor design forcing people to play faction they dont care about or loss out on many toys, mounts and what not else...

This is the HORD only stuff I need to do now in BFA: All hord factions exalted for mounts, quest line to hatch mount egg, there is a toy from story quest line, and other randomish toys, and some rewards dont count on hord if you bought on ally from vendors...Hope the 750 medal mount wont be like that...

6. Island exspendetions. While 8.1 is a good change, its still a clusterfuck. Island has crap tons of rewards and achivements. Its the longest grind in BFA by far, getting all the items and achivements is....well Why over-do it like this and add RNG on it`?

Here is my numbers: 1200 runs to get all rewards is a realistic number...Maybe 1000 runs. So 15 mins pr run mythic, times 1200 and you get about 300 hours of doing nothing but islands....

7. 400 mounts. Lets be real here, just give us a 450 or 500.

8. General things like warfront achivements, and other areas having RNG achivements you cant controle. There have been many grinds in BFA that has had A LOT of RNG tied to them.

9. I feel there is a bit many gold sink mounts in BFA - This is maybe OK, but even as a AH player who makes plenty of gold, I find it a bit much. Gold sinks is only aceptable if the rewards fits it...As in 5 million gold for a mount is fine cause we get AH NPC which is gr8, but the frogs 1 million gold was silly to buy.


Feel free to add your own issues. Honestly I just wish Islands wasen't a thing AT ALL, remove all rewards and the hole content. And then wise the hell up about faction-only rewards. WOD had 1 hord only mount, legion had....nothing IIRC? and BFA is stupid heavy on ally or hord only stuff. Im litterally lvling my hord charcter as my FIRST charcter in BFA, cause llvling new charcters only gives me better gold farming / proffesion achivements. Also they nerfed lvling through invasions over legion...Just why? Did it fully on my lvl 111 hord with full heirlooms and only got 25-30% of a level..

[Brodhistiva]

Island exspendetions

I want to tease you, but no, that's honestly a fair series of typos because it's impossible to talk about island expeditions without having a seizureohfuck345efdsg;dfkgjiodruo lgflsaed;G
FD:KGs'4r';2342

[Bathrezz]

A few good points you have there and I agree to most of them. The BFA faction specific toys is aids, its taking long enough to get ally paragonboxes, and then RNG roll for toys in them, and then have to worry about spending 1-2months grinding to exalted with the horde and then weeks to get paragonboxes for them >. < urrggh but at least those toys aren't OP or anything.

With all the available cosmetics/pets from IE their drop rate is far too low, maybe if the drops were chosen based on my armor (plate) i'd stop getting shit cloth/mail, or a way to chose if i want pets/mount or tmogs, that would help.

My major issue is grinding for tmogs in older content. I legit did 20-30runs of Utarge Keep for the 2h axe, an uglyass axe! Also please bring back speed sets at 120, i really don't want to grind a new char to 114-115 just for those legendary WOD boots.

[siren]

You are a collector, that said, collect. If you want to collect you are going to want to have a character on both factions. Leveling a toon to max level will be a hell of a lot easier than many of the other activities collecting can require. Once you get to 110 you can even run nothing but island expos to level and kill two birds one stone (though one might argue it would be better to just do all the zone quests to get that part out of the way.

95% of your complaints just come down to time. You have how long to do all these things? A year, year and a half. Warfronts, Island Expos, world quests, paragon boxes, all the things, achievements, toys, pets, etc. you gotta go play the content, and you have plenty of time to do it.

You're not likely going to get it all in a week, or a month, or a couple months, it is going to take some time.

One of my favorite parts about collecting is there is always something for me to do in the game. I keep hearing all these complaints in other threads about there being nothing to do in the game and I am so confused. 60 days played max level on my main (+ however many days on alts) and I still don't have enough time to do all the things I want. Gotta pick and choose.

There are some things I will just never get done, and I am ok with that. Also ok with horde and/or alliance having things the other side can't have. Nothing wrong with that, everything doesn't always have to be even across the board, each side can have their own toys and cosmetics.

Time, there is plenty, we are not even done with the first tier yet, plenty of time to do all the things you outlined. The only thing that might be an issue is island expo mounts. I have all the pets and a bunch of armor transmogs but not a single mount. If I had to guess though blizz will likely bump the mount drop up later down the line to help people fill things in.

[Bathrezz]

@siren, i think OP meant that there is a right way of implementing repeatable content and there is the wrong way. And the wrong way is the general consensus of what collectors and casual players are saying. The main problem is the overbearing RNG gating on everything to keep players subbed for longer and i'm sure you've heard the 'carrot on a stick' metaphor.

[siren]

@siren, i think OP meant that there is a right way of implementing repeatable content and there is the wrong way. And the wrong way is the general consensus of what collectors and casual players are saying. The main problem is the overbearing RNG gating on everything to keep players subbed for longer and i'm sure you've heard the 'carrot on a stick' metaphor.

Right and wrong way? Whatever you are referring to as a general consensus is opinion, and wrong.

How to get pets, toys and mounts in BFA:

Reputation - Buy things at a certain level of rep.
Paragon boxes - more rep, more chances at stuff.
Random BOA drops.
Random BOE drops.
World vendor items.
Long quest lines that will require a group.
Long quests lines that can be soloed.
Random drops from bosses.
Random drops from rares.
Drops from rares first kill.
Island Expos.
Warfronts.
Lootable items in the world.
Lootable items in dungeons.
Pet dungeon completion.
Pet dungeon currency.
Service medal currency.
Dubloon currency.
Buy crap for gold out of the auction house.
Various achievements way too numerous to mention even a small portion.

That's just off the top of my head, I am sure I missed other ways of acquiring toys, pets and mounts. RNG? Ya, for some things, not "everything". And as I said and tried to make clear, you have over a year to do these things and let the RNG gods smile upon you.

Subbed longer? I am subbed through 2024. Why even mention keeping people subbed? It has nothing to do with the conversation at hand and is just one of those things people like to throw around to incite stupidity. If you don't want to sub to the game, don't sub. But if you're not subbed and expect rewards from a game that takes time played and effort put forth to get things your point is mute.

[Bathrezz]

I think you're wrong, and a lot of players will agree with me. Implementing repeatable content the right way is sure a thing, if you don't know then you haven't been a collector for long and/or haven't played enough games to realise that there are good game designs and bad ones.

Most things are gated behind RNG not, time + effort = rewards but, time + effort = maybe reward. As collectors we don't want rewards to be handed to us sure, of course, otherwise there's no value/prestige in having something.

And for someone as you, whose so passionate in saying that everything is OK regarding collecting in BFA, why have you only posted once in this section since your account creation in 2010? To be honest I don't think you know what you're talking about, you just saw this thread title popup at the home screen and wanted to argue for funs.

[Lei]

It slowly snuck in, and I'm afraid it's only gonna get worse.
I think the worst part of it is that the devs can feed anything to collectors. Like that guy above who says "du-uh, you're collector, suck it up and collect, or what, you want everything for free?" Even the collectors don't stick together against this. :/
If there is a community problem, players tend to rally and "rebel". Like with the removal of flying and the water strider nerf. You don't see players stand up against this horrendous and obnoxious tendency we see regards achieves and collectibles.

[siren]

I think you're wrong, and a lot of players will agree with me. Implementing repeatable content the right way is sure a thing, if you don't know then you haven't been a collector for long and/or haven't played enough games to realise that there are good game designs and bad ones.

You completely missed the point, there are currently many ways to acquire the various things. It is obvious you don't like some of the ways, but there is more than one way. In your shortsightedness you seem to be overlooking that Blizz has implemented more ways than ever to acquire things, as well as updating drops rates, etc.

Most things are gated behind RNG not, time + effort = rewards but, time + effort = maybe reward. As collectors we don't want rewards to be handed to us sure, of course, otherwise there's no value/prestige in having something.

Lets sort out my list into RNG groups and deterministic:

Deterministic

• Reputation - Buy things at a certain level of rep.
• World vendor items.
• Long quest lines that will require a group.
• Long quests lines that can be soloed.
• Drops from rares first kill.
• Lootable items in the world.
• Lootable items in dungeons.
• Pet dungeon completion.
• Pet dungeon currency.
• Service medal currency.
• Dubloon currency.
• Buy crap for gold out of the auction house.
• Various achievements way too numerous to mention even a small portion.

RNG

• Paragon boxes - more rep, more chances at stuff.
• Random BOA drops.
• Random BOE drops.
• Random drops from bosses.
• Random drops from rares.
• Island Expos.
• Warfronts.

It would appear there are a great many things you can do without any RNG at all. Granted, in total count there are probably more items to get from the RNG sources, but to say everything is RNG based is pure hogwash.

And for someone as you, whose so passionate in saying that everything is OK regarding collecting in BFA, why have you only posted once in this section since your account creation in 2010? To be honest I don't think you know what you're talking about, you just saw this thread title popup at the home screen and wanted to argue for funs.

I don't post much, too busy playing the game.

It slowly snuck in, and I'm afraid it's only gonna get worse.

What is it that is getting worse? See above, more ways than ever have been added to the game to acquire fun stuff. There is more of everything for the collector to partake in.

Like that guy above who says "du-uh, you're collector, suck it up and collect, or what, you want everything for free?"

I was thinking of the time needed to level a toon on a different faction. Considering how many collectors have spent weeks of real life time waiting for a rare mount drop to spawn leveling a toon is a cakewalk in comparison.

If there is a community problem, players tend to rally and "rebel". Like with the removal of flying and the water strider nerf. You don't see players stand up against this horrendous and obnoxious tendency we see regards achieves and collectibles.

I don't even know what you are on about.
What "community problem" are you referring to in regards to collectibles?
I'm not sure what is "horrendous and obnoxious", we've been given more ways than ever to collect things.

[Lei]

You completely missed the point, there are currently many ways to acquire the various things. It is obvious you don't like some of the ways, but there is more than one way. In your shortsightedness you seem to be overlooking that Blizz has implemented more ways than ever to acquire things, as well as updating drops rates, etc.



Lets sort out my list into RNG groups and deterministic:

Deterministic

• Reputation - Buy things at a certain level of rep.
• World vendor items.
• Long quest lines that will require a group.
• Long quests lines that can be soloed.
• Drops from rares first kill.
• Lootable items in the world.
• Lootable items in dungeons.
• Pet dungeon completion.
• Pet dungeon currency.
• Service medal currency.
• Dubloon currency.
• Buy crap for gold out of the auction house.
• Various achievements way too numerous to mention even a small portion.

RNG

• Paragon boxes - more rep, more chances at stuff.
• Random BOA drops.
• Random BOE drops.
• Random drops from bosses.
• Random drops from rares.
• Island Expos.
• Warfronts.

It would appear there are a great many things you can do without any RNG at all. Granted, in total count there are probably more items to get from the RNG sources, but to say everything is RNG based is pure hogwash.



I don't post much, too busy playing the game.





What is it that is getting worse? See above, more ways than ever have been added to the game to acquire fun stuff. There is more of everything for the collector to partake in.



I was thinking of the time needed to level a toon on a different faction. Considering how many collectors have spent weeks of real life time waiting for a rare mount drop to spawn leveling a toon is a cakewalk in comparison.



I don't even know what you are on about.
What "community problem" are you referring to in regards to collectibles?
I'm not sure what is "horrendous and obnoxious", we've been given more ways than ever to collect things.

It's not the "ways" that is the problem. It's the TIME it requires. the RNG upon RNG.
Example: WoD garrison mounts (farm out the invasion with killing god knows how many mobs, then do the invasion to have a chance to get an item that summons a boss that has a very low chance to drop your mount, and you can get duplicates!), paragon mounts etc.
The next question is "how much is too much"? I think time spent in game can be considered as a price. So how much time you spent in the game to get common, uncommon, rare, and super rare mounts in the previous expacs? In BC? In wrath? Farming old raids from Cata onwards? Compared to what you face today if you WANT to get that mount and it is "just matter of farmtime" to get it?
I must say if you compare bfa (legion too) to ANY pre-mop expansion, you spend MORE time in the game and achieve LESS (collectibles).
The next thing people say "blah you don't have to have EVERYTHING in the game" But then I am not a collector am I? Also, I alread don't have everything, so sometimes when a new "have x mount" achieve comes by, I have to earn more mounts to achieve that milestone. If something is farmable, then I can have it. I am not lazy to farm, but I am not stupid either to notice how these activities' and rewards' price (again: time spent in game to get them) has gone up since Wod/legion.

[f4ncybear]

Example: WoD garrison mounts (farm out the invasion with killing god knows how many mobs, then do the invasion to have a chance to get an item that summons a boss that has a very low chance to drop your mount, and you can get duplicates!)

No need to scare people. Mounts also drop from Gold/Platinum boxes. It takes 1 finished missive to trigger an invasion. You can finish all the missives and then turn one in once a week to get your chance at a mount.


And speaking of RNG, we should go back to a fair system like Argent Tournament.

[Lei]

No need to scare people. Mounts also drop from Gold/Platinum boxes. It takes 1 finished missive to trigger an invasion. You can finish all the missives and then turn one in once a week to get your chance at a mount.


And speaking of RNG, we should go back to a fair system like Argent Tournament.

It wasn't like this in wod actually. REmember we had that quesstimate weakauras that would count how much-ish more mobs you had to kill to trigger an invasion? And for some time it seemed buggy (not the weakauras, the trigger)? People farmed for hours and hours and no invasion would pop? Not to mention the invasions were buggy too with despawning mobs, unreachable platinum level and so on and so on? And, if everything went fine, getting a platinum actually required some effort.

[siren]

It's not the "ways" that is the problem. It's the TIME it requires. the RNG upon RNG.
Example: WoD garrison mounts (farm out the invasion with killing god knows how many mobs, then do the invasion to have a chance to get an item that summons a boss that has a very low chance to drop your mount, and you can get duplicates!), paragon mounts etc.

Or get an addon called Premade Group Finder, set keywords to search for and go kill that rare boss in a 40man group in a few minutes. Did that all through WOD and most of legion, still missing one of the mounts. Sadly, the addon no longer really works from my understanding due to the changes blizz has made to group finder and automation. You only had one chance at a mount per week even if you killed multiple bosses, and finding a group once a week was pretty easy up until the changes.

Very little time was required, though RNG is RNG.

The next question is "how much is too much"? I think time spent in game can be considered as a price. So how much time you spent in the game to get common, uncommon, rare, and super rare mounts in the previous expacs? In BC? In wrath? Farming old raids from Cata onwards? Compared to what you face today if you WANT to get that mount and it is "just matter of farmtime" to get it?

How much do you want to pay? The choice is yours. More content has been added to the game, more content means more time for you to spend doing things. Imagine the shit storm that would ensue if there were less things added than previous expansions.

I am always amazed with every expansion at just how many things are put into the game for us to partake in. Just in BFA looking at the new items purchasable with Polished Pet Charms I was blown away when I did the math and saw how many charms I would need to get everything. I thought it would take the whole expansion to get them all at first glance, but here we are a few months in and I have bought all of those items and can now use charms to auction house/make gold or bank pet stones for future pets. It can be daunting at first glance, but as time goes by it's not so bad.

I must say if you compare bfa (legion too) to ANY pre-mop expansion, you spend MORE time in the game and achieve LESS (collectibles).
The next thing people say "blah you don't have to have EVERYTHING in the game" But then I am not a collector am I? Also, I alread don't have everything, so sometimes when a new "have x mount" achieve comes by, I have to earn more mounts to achieve that milestone. If something is farmable, then I can have it. I am not lazy to farm, but I am not stupid either to notice how these activities' and rewards' price (again: time spent in game to get them) has gone up since Wod/legion.

More content, more things to collect, more possible time spent in the game. It is a choice, your choice. If you want to spend that time doing something, do it. If you don't, don't. It is your choice to take part in whatever it is you want to do within the game. You don't have to do anything, but as players we have been given more things than ever to go do if we so choose. You really don't have to collect everything, really, you don't.

[f4ncybear]

It wasn't like this in wod actually. REmember we had that quesstimate weakauras that would count how much-ish more mobs you had to kill to trigger an invasion? And for some time it seemed buggy (not the weakauras, the trigger)? People farmed for hours and hours and no invasion would pop? Not to mention the invasions were buggy too with despawning mobs, unreachable platinum level and so on and so on? And, if everything went fine, getting a platinum actually required some effort.

Just your typical Blizzard system being broken at the start of the expansion. I finished garrison everything during the WoD drought and an invasion would take 3 missives.

[Lei]

Or get an addon called Premade Group Finder, set keywords to search for and go kill that rare boss in a 40man group in a few minutes. Did that all through WOD and most of legion, still missing one of the mounts. Sadly, the addon no longer really works from my understanding due to the changes blizz has made to group finder and automation. You only had one chance at a mount per week even if you killed multiple bosses, and finding a group once a week was pretty easy up until the changes.

Very little time was required, though RNG is RNG.



How much do you want to pay? The choice is yours. More content has been added to the game, more content means more time for you to spend doing things. Imagine the shit storm that would ensue if there were less things added than previous expansions.

I am always amazed with every expansion at just how many things are put into the game for us to partake in. Just in BFA looking at the new items purchasable with Polished Pet Charms I was blown away when I did the math and saw how many charms I would need to get everything. I thought it would take the whole expansion to get them all at first glance, but here we are a few months in and I have bought all of those items and can now use charms to auction house/make gold or bank pet stones for future pets. It can be daunting at first glance, but as time goes by it's not so bad.



More content, more things to collect, more possible time spent in the game. It is a choice, your choice. If you want to spend that time doing something, do it. If you don't, don't. It is your choice to take part in whatever it is you want to do within the game. You don't have to do anything, but as players we have been given more things than ever to go do if we so choose. You really don't have to collect everything, really, you don't.

Now you are just mishmashing. I asked a simple question and you just mush it around. This is exactly what I was talking about, and it's pointless to continue to talk about this, until your bible of words don't actually mean anything or answer anything.

I did the same in WoD with premade group finder, but according to blizzard it was "not intended that way", right? No need to answer.

[Djuntas]

Thanks for your thoughts all I still stand by making collectors do 250-300 hours of shit content (island) or making us play a lot on a faction we dont care about is bad design. All other exspansions never had it this bad.

[Lei]

Thanks for your thoughts all I still stand by making collectors do 250-300 hours of shit content (island) or making us play a lot on a faction we dont care about is bad design. All other exspansions never had it this bad.

As you can see "time" is not something that should concern a collector...... Suck it up, farm it out, don't want everything for free.

More examples would be the newest honor farm idea, and the old pvp transmog set farm "changes" that came with bfa (tokens silently removed from legion wqs, no new wqs coming that reward tokens).

[siren]

Now you are just mishmashing. I asked a simple question and you just mush it around. This is exactly what I was talking about, and it's pointless to continue to talk about this, until your bible of words don't actually mean anything or answer anything.

I did the same in WoD with premade group finder, but according to blizzard it was "not intended that way", right? No need to answer.

The question was "how much is too much". Realistically we have been beyond too much for a long time. The game has more content than can be expected for most players to be able to complete it all. I have no illusion that I will be able to do everything. I pick what I want to complete and focus my time there. I am certainly not going to complain because devs have created more content than I can complete.

Blizz was very clear on why they broke group finder (trivializing world quests). Sadly, it broke the hundreds of other uses it could be used for as well. I don't like it, but there's nothing we can really do about it. I can still do the things I want to do, or choose not to. Personal Choice and all that.

[Archibalde]

My major issue is grinding for tmogs in older content. I legit did 20-30runs of Utarge Keep for the 2h axe, an uglyass axe! Also please bring back speed sets at 120, i really don't want to grind a new char to 114-115 just for those legendary WOD boots.

You can look for Azerite pieces that have a movement speed effect. The Longstrider trait is essentially Aggramar's Stride. It has a cap but it is better than nothing. Paladins have the Gallant Steed trait that makes their horse faster as well as a short speed bonus once the horse fades. And then on your third item you can get On My Way which gives you a versatility and speed buff.

Those traits are not very rare and if you only want them to run old content they don't need to be high item level, which means they also don't need a high level amulet to unlock. I think some of the Warfront armor pieces that drop from rares have those traits. And farming for those isn't necessarily any worse than farming for Legendaries back in Legion.

[siren]

Thanks for your thoughts all I still stand by making collectors do 250-300 hours of shit content (island) or making us play a lot on a faction we dont care about is bad design. All other exspansions never had it this bad.

NO ONE is making you do anything!

If you don't care about something or don't want to do it, don't! It is that simple. No one is forcing any of us to do these things.

All other expansions had more to do than the previous one, this is a good thing, it gives us more options on how to spend our play time rather than sitting in a single expansion for 14 years.