Remove Pathfinder for Flying

[ashblond]

That is why your analogy is terrible - in reality we can't all take free clothes and food because there is a real limit on how much the producers can supply. In WoW that isn't the same, Blizz could give every single person every piece of gear and it won't affect their supplies one bit. In fact it is possible for players to buy a lot of the tier sets from WotLK and Cata for a negligible amount of gold, and to get raid gear with negligible effort from all the raids up to WoD (barring a few that were removed such as Naxx.)

TBH, I don't understand why it is so hard for you understand. lol

My analogy is very simple. Different transport (cars, trains, planes, etc) give you more travel options and reduce your travel time, just like flying in wow. Allowing getting free foods, clothes, stuff etc. removes the need of work for most people in society, just like allowing free gear removes the need for raids, dungeons, quests etc in wow.

So flying facilitates the mean, while free gear remove the goal. They are different things with different impact of different magnitude. That is the principle of my analogy to explain why I support flying but against free gear. If you disagree with it, I am totally fine.

But instead, you focus on "what if we have unlimited foods and clothes?". That is what you got from it? really? I just find it really funny. lol

[rohoz]

Then please prove it and provide link to post, where Blizzard answer to "If you want us to kill mobs in some order - just give us quests in that order, problem solved" or "World is immersive when see it first time only - after doing exactly the same stuff several times immersion turns into routine" or "Players need just a week to explore whole world". Or where is link to answer to tons of suggestions about alternative ways to implement flying? I don't see any.

feedback is
No flying
Listening to tears
adding compromise

Just because you want to nickel and dime everything doesn't mean that 1) people are going to do that and 2) that setting up a compromise wasn't listening to your tears.

If your parent says "I'm not buying you x" and you negotiate "I'll buy you a car when you're 18" that's them taking feedback. Now because you want a car at 16 instead and you're nagging doesn't mean that them not budging on their compromise doesn't mean that they don't listen to you. Listening =! capitulating.

[WowIsDead64]

When removal of flying was announced they did listen to feedback and put it back into the game via pathfinder, but yeah there has been a huge lack of listening to feedback. Still even with that said I don't see how they suddenly would listen to this feedback either, you certainly could do both feedbacks via telling whats wrong with the content and then asking for flying if fixing the current content is too time consuming (I'd rather have them make new content better than use their time, at this point in time, to fix the old content. Ultimately both would be the best choice)

First of all, I think, that all this story with complete removal of flying was pure bluff. They clearly realized, that it wasn't possible. Why? Just because they had flying mounts in their cash shop, players invested $$$ into them and complete removal of flying from current and any new content would mean tons on asking for refunding and even suing. And you should clearly understand, that law >> EULA. No EULA could protect them in case of fraud. They bluffed this way just to make pathfinder look like it's godsend gift - not garbage and BS.

Second thing - Pathfinder isn't actually that compromise, they promised. As they promised fair "Master content on a ground - get flying" compromise, but completely removed flying from current content instead, that means effective removal of flying from game for players, who play current content only.

Third thing - they had two (actually even three, but we don't count WOD, where flying should have returned in patch 6.1) chances to fix ground content. They haven't used this chances. Yeah, BFA is better than Legion, but still not enough and way too far away from desired design. And they don't even admit any problems and give any etas, when they will be fixed.

[Zorachus]

A legit beef I have, that no one mentions;

- Buying flying for old expansions

If your brand new to BfA, and haven't played since like MoP, but you want to run old Raids and see some of the old content in WoD or legion, you cannot fly there, unless you still do the Pathfinder in those old expansions, which is insanity. FOr old expansions they should just make it buyable for the $5,000 gold like they used too. Who the heck is going to do Pathfinder now for Legion ?

[rohoz]

A legit beef I have, that no one mentions;

- Buying flying for old expansions

If your brand new to BfA, and haven't played since like MoP, but you want to run old Raids and see some of the old content in WoD or legion, you cannot fly there, unless you still do the Pathfinder in those old expansions, which is insanity. FOr old expansions they should just make it buyable for the $5,000 gold like they used too. Who the heck is going to do Pathfinder now for Legion ?

take a wyvern, you'll be fine.

[ashblond]

There can be multiple reasons as to why people want to go faster, like in IRL some people want to feel the rush of going fast, some want to break records, some just want to save time. They all say they want to go faster but their reasons vary. I need your reason for wanting go for faster because I can't know it before you tell me. So please do so.
Flying mount does give more freedom, excellent!, but why do you want that freedom of going up (I assume thats what you meant, since otherwise ground mount works the same)?

Tiragarde keep (the one on Durotar) to Echo isles, how many different travel options are there? You can fly etc. but I want you to give me the number of options you can use.

Why people want to go faster? I think it is pretty obvious. People have limited time playing wow, and they want to do more stuffs in those time. Same as in real life, people hurry because they have a lot of stuff to do in certain amount of time.

Why I want freedom? Because a lot of zones looks better from air, you miss a lot of beautiful scenes in wow if you can only look it from land. Not mentioned, Your angle and visions are blocked by trees, walls, etc. if you can only see from land.

From tiragarde to Echos isles, you can first go to Stormwind, orgrimmar, ironforge, silithus..... etc then take flight path, or fly, etc. or take boat from Zuldazar to echos isles as horde, mages and druids have more teleports...etc... What is the point asking me to count the numbers of options?

[WowIsDead64]

A legit beef I have, that no one mentions;

- Buying flying for old expansions

If your brand new to BfA, and haven't played since like MoP, but you want to run old Raids and see some of the old content in WoD or legion, you cannot fly there, unless you still do the Pathfinder in those old expansions, which is insanity. FOr old expansions they should just make it buyable for the $5,000 gold like they used too. Who the heck is going to do Pathfinder now for Legion ?

Pathfinder was implemented exactly because some players said, that if Blizzard would unlock flying later - players just would wait for flying to unlock. There wouldn't be a reason to buy new xpack then, because even if players would need to wait for whole xpack to have flying unlocked - they would do it. I would do it for example. And old xpacks are free now, as you know. Blizzard just try to pull that "You'll have to do it anyway, so no reason to wait" card. Not working for me though. I'll wait anyway and won't buy BFA at all, if 8.2 won't be worth my money.

[Zorachus]

Just boggles my mind that Blizzard doesn't allow flying to be purchased for gold for older expansions. Right jow you should not have to do pathfinder for Legion anymore, that's just ridiculous to think someone will spend that much time in an old outdated expansion, just to unlock flying. At this point flying for previous expansion should not need pathfinder anymore

[ashblond]

Pathfinder was implemented exactly because some players said, that if Blizzard would unlock flying later - players just would wait for flying to unlock. There wouldn't be a reason to buy new xpack then, because even if players would need to wait for whole xpack to have flying unlocked - they would do it. I would do it for example. And old xpacks are free now, as you know. Blizzard just try to pull that "You'll have to do it anyway, so no reason to wait" card. Not working for me though. I'll wait anyway and won't buy BFA at all, if 8.2 won't be worth my money.

I think EU/US shall follow the CN wow: No expansion price charge, Only monthly sub fee. Chinese wow players never pay for each expansion but only monthly sub.

There is no reason not to do the same in EU/US. It is blatant discrimination and unfair.

[lappee]

First of all, I think, that all this story with complete removal of flying was pure bluff. They clearly realized, that it wasn't possible. Why? Just because they had flying mounts in their cash shop, players invested $$$ into them and complete removal of flying from current and any new content would mean tons on asking for refunding and even suing. And you should clearly understand, that law >> EULA. No EULA could protect them in case of fraud. They bluffed this way just to make pathfinder look like it's godsend gift - not garbage and BS.

Second thing - Pathfinder isn't actually that compromise, they promised. As they promised fair "Master content on a ground - get flying" compromise, but completely removed flying from current content instead, that means effective removal of flying from game for players, who play current content only.

Third thing - they had two (actually even three, but we don't count WOD, where flying should have returned in patch 6.1) chances to fix ground content. They haven't used this chances. Yeah, BFA is better than Legion, but still not enough and way too far away from desired design. And they don't even admit any problems and give any etas, when they will be fixed.

1) Oh yeh, I meant removal of flying as in not being in the new content. They never said they would remove flying from all content.

2) WoD people got flying once they "mastered" the content, no lies there. Legion was the same, new content as in space cowboys just didn't allow flying much like was the case with IoT or TI in MoP. Dunno if there was actual lore reason for it

3) And all expansions have been different with their ground content so they are doing something, if current one isn't good enough then we can hope the next one is. I doubt they're ever going to really change any terrain of already implemented content, mob density is one they could do and WQ etc. placement (I just don't find them to be that bad, apart from couple tortollan quests).

Why people want to go faster? I think it is pretty obvious. People have limited time playing wow, and they want to do more stuffs in those time. Same as in real life, people hurry because they have a lot of stuff to do in certain amount of time.

Why I want freedom? Because a lot of zones looks better from air, you miss a lot of beautiful scenes in wow if you can only look it from land. Not mentioned, Your angle and visions are blocked by trees, walls, etc. if you can only see from land.

From tiragarde to Echos isles, you can first go to Stormwind, orgrimmar, ironforge, silithus..... etc then take flight path, or fly, etc. or take boat from Zuldazar to echos isles as horde, mages and druids have more teleports...etc... What is the point asking me to count the numbers of options?

But I already showed you there are multiple reasons for people to go faster, yours is only one of them which is why I had to ask you.
Why is flying the thing you ask to have more time? You could've asked for less trash in dungeons, less WQ's to do etc. (I don't really know what other content you do, would be helpful if you shared that) so why is flying the thing you ask for?

Freedom sure and I guess FP's, mountain tops + gliders aren't enough for you to witness that glory. Thats good, can't dig any deeper on this one.

Again, Tiragarde Keep is the ruin in Durotar just north of Sen'jin Village and not the zone in Kul'Tiras. And my point is to demonstarte how literal options you have aren't really options (aka something you don't even think of as an option), such as walking, walking backpedle, running, running backpedle, flying etc. They are options in the literal sense but aren't actually options when you play the game unless you really like to RP.

[ashblond]

But I already showed you there are multiple reasons for people to go faster, yours is only one of them which is why I had to ask you.
Why is flying the thing you ask to have more time? You could've asked for less trash in dungeons, less WQ's to do etc. (I don't really know what other content you do, would be helpful if you shared that) so why is flying the thing you ask for?

Freedom sure and I guess FP's, mountain tops + gliders aren't enough for you to witness that glory. Thats good, can't dig any deeper on this one.

Again, Tiragarde Keep is the ruin in Durotar just north of Sen'jin Village and not the zone in Kul'Tiras. And my point is to demonstarte how literal options you have aren't really options (aka something you don't even think of as an option), such as walking, walking backpedle, running, running backpedle, flying etc. They are options in the literal sense but aren't actually options when you play the game unless you really like to RP.

Of course there are other ways. But people always want to spend more time on activities they think is more fun.

You can make less trash in dungeons, you can make WQ easier, you can make leveling faster etc. But I prefer to spend more time on those activities, because I think they are more meaningful and fun than spending time on walking or riding. So I prefer to reduce traveling time than reducing dungeon, quests or leveling time.

That is my opinion and you are free to disagree.

[Soeroah]

Pathfinder is good. They just need a better system in the interim. 20% mounted speed and the flightmaster whistle doesn't quite cut it.

Also, they should reduce Pathfinder to just the story quests after the expansion is no longer current. You shouldn't have to grind for flying in old content, experiencing it should be enough. Putting in effort should only be necessary during the expansion.

[WowIsDead64]

2) WoD people got flying once they "mastered" the content, no lies there. Legion was the same, new content as in space cowboys just didn't allow flying much like was the case with IoT or TI in MoP. Dunno if there was actual lore reason for it

No, you're mastered content, when you've completed it. Legion Part I doesn't grant flying in content, it relates to. BFA Part I doesn't grant flying in current content either. Waiting for Part II, that has nothing to do with Part I content - is just arbitrary gate, nothing more. This crappy "You can't fly, till you won't complete whole continent's content" and at the same time "Additional zones has nothing to do with main continent" rules - are just some arbitrary rules, invented out of the blue by Blizzard. Players agreed with such design back in WOD, just because they thought, that it was implemented retroactively. Nobody thought, that "Legion will have the same design" statement would be literal, i.e. they would need to wait till patch 7.2 to unlock flying. Blizzard just spit at our faces. That's it.

[furydeath]

There's more than just no flying keeping me from wanting to play as I use too.

[Craaazyyy]

s6/s7 when dks murdered everyone and everyone with a functioning brain got gladiator as dk? lmao no pls

you clearly have no idea what you talking about.. dks were murdering everyone in s5 and then they were nerfed and progressively were becoming one of the worst classes in PvP in wrath.. in the end in s8 they were the least represented class on the ladder

there used to be threads on arenajunkies with stats from each season, but arenajunkies got shut down and is in archive mode and doesnt have a search option

[rohoz]

you clearly have no idea what you talking about.. dks were murdering everyone in s5 and then they were nerfed and progressively were becoming one of the worst classes in PvP in wrath.. in the end in s8 they were the least represented class on the ladder

there used to be threads on arenajunkies with stats from each season, but arenajunkies got shut down and is in archive mode and doesnt have a search option

nah, you're dead wrong

Do you not remember ulduar dk and sigil of the vengeful heart oneshotting rogues through evasion? DK were top tier for the entirety of WoTLK.

I mean, I have my furious tabard on my dk from doing lol 2's in straight pve gear, where you could 2shot pretty much anyone in T8.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XEYalEf2Ok

[Craaazyyy]

nah, you're dead wrong

Do you not remember ulduar dk and sigil of the vengeful heart oneshotting rogues through evasion? DK were top tier for the entirety of WoTLK.

I mean, I have my furious tabard on my dk from doing lol 2's in straight pve gear, where you could 2shot pretty much anyone in T8.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XEYalEf2Ok

that video from bgs proves nothing, you could do same thing with any class if you had good gear against people in greens

and tabard means nothing as well..

in wrath damage overall was super high, so you oneshotting someone proves absolutely nothing.. dks werent busted in s6/s7.. they were good in s6, in s7 they werent that good anymore and they were rather mediocre in s8 and pretty much required shadowmourne for glad/r1

also frost wasnt even the best spec, and VH sigil was better for unholy

[rohoz]

that video from bgs proves nothing, you could do same thing with any class if you had good gear against people in greens

and tabard means nothing as well..

in wrath damage overall was super high, so you oneshotting someone proves absolutely nothing.. dks werent busted in s6/s7.. they were good in s6, in s7 they werent that good anymore and they were rather mediocre in s8 and pretty much required shadowmourne for glad/r1

also frost wasnt even the best spec, and VH sigil was better for unholy

Sigilwise, frost gained way more than coil, the coeffs even favored frost strike. Frost 2h was the fotm for ulduar tier, until they introduced the dw abomination for toc.

and yeah, it's a shame I didn't have fraps at that point in time, but you'd 0-100 people during hungering cold in 2's (s8 was the last season you were eligible for glad in 2's)

[Craaazyyy]

Sigilwise, frost gained way more than coil, the coeffs even favored frost strike. Frost 2h was the fotm for ulduar tier, until they introduced the dw abomination for toc.

and yeah, it's a shame I didn't have fraps at that point in time, but you'd 0-100 people during hungering cold in 2's (s8 was the last season you were eligible for glad in 2's)

nah, s5 was the last season you were eligible for arena titles in 2s

[rohoz]

nah, s5 was the last season you were eligible for arena titles in 2s

I keep getting confused with tier# and season #, tier 8 was season 6, which was the last one. Ulduar tier was the last tier you could get 2's gladiator. Furious glad