Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Endus]

Alright, I'm back.

Contracting Fusion is the same as contracting Don Jr. They both worked for their respective campaigns. You don't get to claim one is OK because you like the party.

Being offered oppo research by foreign governments is not now, nor has it ever been against the law.

It's the equivalent of claiming you didn't steal the candy bar because you still have the receipt in your pocket showing you paid for it.

I have nothing to apologize for. You claiming I'm disseminating propaganda if I don't apologize is libelous. I don't agree with you, but I haven't misrepresented any of the information I've brought forward. I don't expect you are going to apologize either.


There's obviously two standards when it comes to working with the Russians, but if someone leaning on the Right side of the spectrum brings it up, it's hand-waved as "whataboutism".

So doubling down on the deliberately and maliciously dishonest framing, and confirming that it was in no way a simple mistake on your part.

You are spreading lies and propaganda, to muddy the waters and disinform the public.

Your claim here is obviously, blatantly untrue on the facts. Facts are not partisan. Accepting unsolicited dirt on your opponent from a foreign national is illegal. Contracting an internationally-based research company is not. Conflating the two is a lie, and you know it.

[Deadite]

You are spreading lies and propaganda, to muddy the waters and disinform the public.

lol..

Take it down a notch. While you are correct this is a shitty sub forum on a wow fan site.

[Endus]

lol..

Take it down a notch. While you are correct this is a shitty sub forum on a wow fan site.

Which makes the effort more ridiculous.

It doesn't change what he's doing. That's determined by how badly and flagrantly he's misrepresenting the facts.

[Ragedaug]

So why lie about it so many times?

I dunno. Maybe they figured the Left would go nuts and try to investigation and criminalize them for two years over it without having any idea what happened? Maybe? Maybe that could be why? Maybe they just didn't want to deal with it, figuring they could sweep it under the rug, not realizing the Left already had all the details of the meeting being that folks working for the Clinton campaign were already in talks with the same Russian lady the day before and the day after she meet with the Trump campaign? Maybe that?

Why do you suppose they lied about it, considering we now know, based on the outcome of the Mueller investigation, that there was no wrong doing there?

[Elegiac]

Why do you suppose they lied about it, considering we now know, based on the outcome of the Mueller investigation, that there was no wrong doing there?

This explicitly was not the conclusion of the investigation; not even Barr's sparknotes said "there was no wrongdoing".

[Ragedaug]

Christopher Steele was not a representative of a foreign government but an private investigator, there was no e-mail saying this is part of a government operation to help you win. The top brass in Trump's campaign not only took that meeting but actively wanted help from a hostile power not sure what Ukraine dude you are talking about.

The Russian Lawyer lady was also not a representative of the Russian government. And if even if she was, it's still not illegal to receive oppo research from other governments.

Those unregistered foreign spies in the Trump campaign say otherwise.

The Mueller investigation says you are wrong.

You mean the racist conspiracy theory that Donald Trump was leading for years?

Well, it's not "racist" to say someone wasn't born in the U.S. It wasn't racist when Trump said Ted Cruz wasn't born in the U.S. But otherwise, yeah, that conspiracy.

First source second did that lady have links to Russian intelligence? did she present herself as part of a government's program to help the Clintons? seems you are pulling at straws. There is nothing wrong with opposition research but when a foreign government calls you and says they are going to actively help you win you call the FBI unless you are a criminal.

Seems you are pulling at straws. You have no idea of how she presented herself. Also, a lawyer is not "the government". And no, you don't have to call the FBI every time a foreigner calls you. Just like Fusion GPS didn't call the FBI when they talked to her.

Trump's tower in Moscow, Don Jr.'s emails and Roger Stone's contact with a GRU operative say hi.

Mueller's investigation says hi back.

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This explicitly was not the conclusion of the investigation; not even Barr's sparknotes said "there was no wrongdoing".

Whatever you have to tell yourself to believe you weren't fooled I suppose. Sure, those weren't the exact words. Mueller found there was no established conspiracy or collusion between anyone in the Trump campaign and the Russians. So that's all we have, and we have no evidence of wrong doing, but without any evidence to the contrary, and an investigation that couldn't find any conspiracy or collusion, you hold firm to your belief that there was wrong doing based on....?

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So doubling down on the deliberately and maliciously dishonest framing, and confirming that it was in no way a simple mistake on your part.

You are spreading lies and propaganda, to muddy the waters and disinform the public.

You are wrong, and libelous. You have no evidence that I'm lying, and you have provided no evidence to show that anything I've said is untrue, blatantly or otherwise. This is you refusing to engage in a discussion, or discrediting what I'm saying, and instead just personally attacking me, which is kinda against the rules...but whatever man.

Your claim here is obviously, blatantly untrue on the facts. Facts are not partisan. Accepting unsolicited dirt on your opponent from a foreign national is illegal. Contracting an internationally-based research company is not. Conflating the two is a lie, and you know it.

Veselnitskaya claimed she had worked for the Russian Government and had dirt on dirty dealings between Clinton and the Russian Government. That's not her representing the Government, and she didn't claim she was representing the Russian Government. It ended up being a lie, which is why the Trump campaign said she had nothing useful.

The whole thing stinks, but no one on the Left will admit to any of the smell coming from their direction.
- Fusion GPS is working for the Clinton campaign and is actively creating a report to show ties from the Trump campaign to Russia.
- Veselnitskaya meets with Fusion GPS the day before and the day after she meets in Trump Tower
- Veselnitskaya lies to the Trump Campaign about who she is and what she has
- Veselnitskaya ends up having no useful information
None of these statements is in dispute by anyone other than perhaps some tin-foil-hat "the media and gov lies about everything" types.

There is literally no purpose for her scheduling the meeting other than to give ammunition for people building a case against Trump that he is colluding with the Russian. Exactly what Fusion GPS was doing at that specific time that they met with her, which was before she met with Don.

[Elegiac]

Whatever you have to tell yourself to believe you weren't fooled I suppose. Sure, those weren't the exact words. Mueller found there was no established conspiracy or collusion between anyone in the Trump campaign and the Russians. So that's all we have, and we have no evidence of wrong doing, but without any evidence to the contrary, and an investigation that couldn't find any conspiracy or collusion, you hold firm to your belief that there was wrong doing based on....?

There is a world of difference between "finding there was no established conspiracy" and "not establishing conspiracy". The latter is what was said, and what it implies is a lack of sufficient evidence, not an absence of it.

And we have a whole lot of evidence of wrongdoing; people have been brought to trial and gone to jail over it.

[Ragedaug]

There is a world of difference between "finding there was no established conspiracy" and "not establishing conspiracy". The latter is what was said, and what it implies is a lack of sufficient evidence, not an absence of it.

And we have a whole lot of evidence of wrongdoing; people have been brought to trial and gone to jail over it.

Yes, a lot of people who aren't Trump have committed crimes and are in jail. Maybe like 2 Million people incarcerated currently in the U.S.? I'm not sure, but to my understanding it's near that number.

But yeah, we aren't talking about them. We are talking about Trump. Did Mueller find that people who aren't trump did wrong doings? Sure. So what?

[DarkTZeratul]

But yeah, we aren't talking about them. We are talking about Trump. Did Mueller find that people who aren't trump did wrong doings? Sure. So what?

So your argument is that when though a lot of people working for or with Trump were guilty, Trump personally isn't, therefore the entire investigation was a waste of time and we should stop looking into everything and pay no attention to all his bullshit?

[draynay]

Yes, a lot of people who aren't Trump have committed crimes and are in jail. Maybe like 2 Million people incarcerated currently in the U.S.? I'm not sure, but to my understanding it's near that number.

There's shifting the goalposts and then there's launching them into space.

[Draco-Onis]

The Russian Lawyer lady was also not a representative of the Russian government. And if even if she was, it's still not illegal to receive oppo research from other governments.

It is illegal to receive help from a foreign government someone even linked you the law that says so, why do you keep lying?

The Mueller investigation says you are wrong.

Barr's summary of the investigation said no such thing and no one has read the Mueller report aside from the justice department. You are basically talking out of your ass, how do you know how close he came but didn't meet the limit? it's pretty fucking obvious Trump did some shaddy shit.

Well, it's not "racist" to say someone wasn't born in the U.S. It wasn't racist when Trump said Ted Cruz wasn't born in the U.S. But otherwise, yeah, that conspiracy

Wait you are saying birtherism isn't racist? really go ahead and tell me why it wasn't.

Seems you are pulling at straws. You have no idea of how she presented herself. Also, a lawyer is not "the government". And no, you don't have to call the FBI every time a foreigner calls you. Just like Fusion GPS didn't call the FBI when they talked to her.

Don Jr.'s email made it clear and the line this is part of a concerted effort from the Russian government to get your father elected so you do call the FBI. This has happened and the past and you know what other campaigns did? THEY CALLED THE FUCKING FBI.

[TotallyGenericName]

How about a reverse investigation of all parties involved in initially spreading the collusion lies? I bet that would be fun.

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So doubling down on the deliberately and maliciously dishonest framing, and confirming that it was in no way a simple mistake on your part.

You are spreading lies and propaganda, to muddy the waters and disinform the public.

Your claim here is obviously, blatantly untrue on the facts. Facts are not partisan. Accepting unsolicited dirt on your opponent from a foreign national is illegal. Contracting an internationally-based research company is not. Conflating the two is a lie, and you know it.

Lies claimed as facts can very much be partisan though. So that’s not entirely true.

[Orbitus]

So, can he be brought to testify to Congress about it?

With a goal of hurting Hillary. Noone cared about Trump.

Unsuccessfully.

And Clinton Foundation was major DNC funding source, getting foreign money...

1. Sure, Steele can be brought before congress.

2. Yes, they wanted to hurt Hillary, and help Trump. They got the RNC emails as well.

3. The fact that they tried to establish back channels, is illegal.

4. And the Clinton Foundation money wasn't used for funding the DNC or anything else other than their charity work.

Am I surprised that Shalcker was lying? No.

[Masark]

I just linked you the fucking law that showed you to be wrong, and you are still saying it isn't illegal?

"If the Republican does it, it's not illegal!"

[Orbitus]

How about a reverse investigation of all parties involved in initially spreading the collusion lies? I bet that would be fun.

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Lies claimed as facts can very much be partisan though. So that’s not entirely true.

Because it wasn't "collusion lies". Especially since it was Trump's own people that got the investigation started.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Yes, a lot of people who aren't Trump have committed crimes and are in jail. Maybe like 2 Million people incarcerated currently in the U.S.? I'm not sure, but to my understanding it's near that number.

But yeah, we aren't talking about them. We are talking about Trump. Did Mueller find that people who aren't trump did wrong doings? Sure. So what?

We put people who broke the law away. How is that a bad thing.

[wunksta]

Did Mueller find that people who aren't trump did wrong doings? Sure. So what?

A lot of people Trump hired...

[Dontrike]

4. And the Clinton Foundation money wasn't used for funding the DNC or anything else other than their charity work.

I can't believe Trumpsters are still trying to make the Clinton Foundation a thing. Hearing about that is like listening to music from the 50's.

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We put people who broke the law away. How is that a bad thing.

Because it hurt their god king, that's why.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

While I wish the document came out and was basically a "Trump needs to go to prison now" thing, that wasn't realistic. But it's a damn good start. And I do feel like it's got some bad stuff on Trump, but Barr's hiding it.

[Orbitus]

I can't believe Trumpsters are still trying to make the Clinton Foundation a thing. Hearing about that is like listening to music from the 50's.

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Because it hurt their god king, that's why.

Yep, we see the Clinton Foundation tax returns, and they are still stupid enough to claim it.