[Megathread] Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

[dope_danny]

If you data mine any game you will see things that were scrapped. That's just how game development works. Players only get to see a fraction of what was supposed to be. I do agree that dragonrot is pretty useless, probably couldn't balance it right in time. Which is also how game development works. It's not always time, sometimes they just can't get it to work without someone having an Eureka moment in the shower.

I know when I've done programming, 3d work or level design that you sometimes get the solution to a problem in the most obscure places... you can't hold things indefinitely until that arrives.

Headless do what they are supposed to do though, be an extra challenge you can combat early and a way for you to realise you become stronger by having an enemy that probably killed you without you knowing what the hell was going on or how to counter it, to later overcome it either through to perserverance or getting stronger.
Rewards are kinda meh, I agree, but having candy which you don't have to farm is ok, Not sure what they could've given us instead.

Hopefully they expand on the dragonrot in the DLC with the extra time they now have. Being the first game in the "series" it will always leave room for improvements.

I can see the whole "when does it tick over, how many revives, what can we actually close off when so little of the game is off the critical path already" type stuff being a rigmarole but the Headless really feel pointless in retrospect. Nothing they drop is useful, they don't block any paths and can be just walked around, they dont have a relation to the story bar one background note about ashina before the dragon. The caster ones are much needed variety in a melee heavy game but the sword ones are just a guy with a sword that once or twice will try a 'nothing personal kid' teleport behind you backstab.
Considering these fights require a consumable thats hard limited till the last 90% of the game should make them seem like a big deal that drop massive boons early on to skilled players but anyone can farm them by the end. But thats a model Fromtsoft uses for things like crystal lizards or those one off mobs that drop spells or something and all the other minibosses already serve that purpose. If you removed the headless from the game the entire experience would be exactly the same and thats just disappointing when those creepy headless ghosts build up to nothing more than a solid waste of time.

[RobertoCarlos]

The what now?

You've never heard the expression off the beat and path? it means out of the way

[AwkwardSquirtle]

You've never heard the expression off the beat and path? it means out of the way

I've heard of "off the beaten path," like the path that's been beaten down by everyone walking on it.

[Champagne Supernova]

Guys like this amaze me and make me hate him at the same time. I don't agree with it but i applaud the way he's found to cheat the game. Obviously don't watch if it's your first playthrough.

[dope_danny]

Boy i forgot and failed to notice some pretty obvious Kuon references in the game.
https://i.imgur.com/urDlemj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9H4YR19.jpg

[Darleth]

Guys like this amaze me and make me hate him at the same time. I don't agree with it but i applaud the way he's found to cheat the game. Obviously don't watch if it's your first playthrough.

Seen most of this stuff used by speedrunners. As is tradition with fromsoft games, there is always some weird way to abuse enemy AI or certain mechanics to make the game easy mode. Especially the Horse guy and Demon of Hatred fight being THAT cheesy with making them commit suicide still makes laugh quite a bit.

[Shinzai]

I can see the whole "when does it tick over, how many revives, what can we actually close off when so little of the game is off the critical path already" type stuff being a rigmarole but the Headless really feel pointless in retrospect. Nothing they drop is useful, they don't block any paths and can be just walked around, they dont have a relation to the story bar one background note about ashina before the dragon. The caster ones are much needed variety in a melee heavy game but the sword ones are just a guy with a sword that once or twice will try a 'nothing personal kid' teleport behind you backstab.
Considering these fights require a consumable thats hard limited till the last 90% of the game should make them seem like a big deal that drop massive boons early on to skilled players but anyone can farm them by the end. But thats a model Fromtsoft uses for things like crystal lizards or those one off mobs that drop spells or something and all the other minibosses already serve that purpose. If you removed the headless from the game the entire experience would be exactly the same and thats just disappointing when those creepy headless ghosts build up to nothing more than a solid waste of time.

I dunno, this is like complaining about some of the more obscurely placed black and silver knights in Dark Souls.

Also, there are 2 whole storylines of lore about the red eyes, each with its own implications.

As to the Headless, they fit in the lore as they are restless dead, generally fending off graverobbers and such. Also, a later game reference will point out that, because of the war, there isn't enough salt to go around to purify all the corpses of those that've died.

But regardless, it's just one more challenge for those looking for one and they're not that hard

[dope_danny]

So i'm one trophy away from the platinum and like most from what i've read its the skill point grind. Honestly on NG+3 when killing things are a breeze since you know all the patterns you can go without dying and losing anything from NG+ onwards and still reach that point and go "welp, guess i gotta just grind mobs like its vanilla WoW and i'm a horde player thats hit lvl58 and ran out of quests" and i guess it stands out more because there isn't really a hard cap to chase in the other fromsoft games. Finding all the spells in DS1 for example is scouring the map and doing some covenant stuff each NG rotation and thats it. I honestly assumed NG+ would have ramped it up considering everything after Saint Isshin feels like a victory lap till this.

[Darleth]

So i'm one trophy away from the platinum and like most from what i've read its the skill point grind. Honestly on NG+3 when killing things are a breeze since you know all the patterns you can go without dying and losing anything from NG+ onwards and still reach that point and go "welp, guess i gotta just grind mobs like its vanilla WoW and i'm a horde player thats hit lvl58 and ran out of quests" and i guess it stands out more because there isn't really a hard cap to chase in the other fromsoft games. Finding all the spells in DS1 for example is scouring the map and doing some covenant stuff each NG rotation and thats it. I honestly assumed NG+ would have ramped it up considering everything after Saint Isshin feels like a victory lap till this.

Other Fromsoft games also work differently. And you do have hard caps in all of these (99 stat points into everything). The difference is, that the NG+s work differently in those games, scaling both HP and Damage. You'll get one shot at certain points a lot if you get hit by something weird. In Sekiro, this isn't the case because your HP is already "hardcapped" after the 10th HP upgrade. In general I think the only thing that REALLY scales is mob HP over all the NG+, but their damage only increases from NG to NG+1 and after that it seems to stay relatively the same. Mob HP scaling makes sense, since you can increase your damage up to 99.

[Cairhiin]

NG+ does feel quite easy but I attribute it to the fact I've actually learned to play over the course of normal. Was great to get revenge on the Bull. Just grabbing it by the horns and destroying it in short order. Instead of spanking that booty for 5 minutes. Revenge on Genichiri felt also very satisfying. Kicking his ass in the tutorial.

[Yunaqt]

Finally beat the game last night, so satisfying and the final boss was freak'n great! Although I think the one that gave me the most trouble overall was Genichiro first time round, mostly since it was this point I had to essentially relearn the game and completely change my approach.

Was a bit slow to beat it though since I picked up the game 3 weeks ago and have been struggling to find time to play >.<

But absolutely loved it, was hilarious starting new game + and beating Genichiro in the opening and just 1 shotting all the way through to past boss 2 in a couple of hours. Dominated the first 2 bosses through thier posture instead of, I the think the 10minute fight I made Lady Butterfly first time round opting for blocking everything and just getting taps in on her vitality. This time round the entire fight was easily about sub 2 minutes just deflecting countering Kanji moves and breaking her posture while she was still 80% health.

Looking forward to the next few play throughs to finish the last of my trophies.

[P for Pancetta]

I've heard of "off the beaten path," like the path that's been beaten down by everyone walking on it.

No no no off the beat and path is when you're so drunk you're unable to dance to the beat and walk on a straight path, it's also known to cause people to mishear and misremember common phrases.

[dope_danny]

So i'm just grinding skills in NG+++++ for the platinum trophy and doing the optimum route, including bosses i think you only have to kill 16 things in this game. Without glitches i imagine speedruns of this will be trimmed down to an absurd degree in the future. Personally as i near the end i'm happy with it but boy if certain things like mentioning Tomoe's connection to 'deep sea' and that recent leaked concept art from Fromsoft of a watery dragon that looks like the palace nobles i am fully expecting an artorius of the abyss style expansion but with Tomoe behind it.

[hellhamster]

So i'm just grinding skills in NG+++++ for the platinum trophy and doing the optimum route, including bosses i think you only have to kill 16 things in this game. Without glitches i imagine speedruns of this will be trimmed down to an absurd degree in the future. Personally as i near the end i'm happy with it but boy if certain things like mentioning Tomoe's connection to 'deep sea' and that recent leaked concept art from Fromsoft of a watery dragon that looks like the palace nobles i am fully expecting an artorius of the abyss style expansion but with Tomoe behind it.

Shura ending can be achieved in 22 minutes, all memories and beads in just over an hour and 10 minutes.

[dope_danny]

Okay i got the Platinum trophy and double checked a guide after and i absolutely found everything, beat everything and exhausted every possibility. I can safely say its a fun game. The easiest fromsoft game for me with only Sword Saint, Owl and Demon taking me more than one try -quite a few more for sword saint, maybe ten times as genichiro before him throws your tenpo off for his delayed phase one attacks- and overall i liked it. If i had to bullet point it:

Positives:
-On console there is no game from fromsoft that runs this smoothly
-The speed and verticality, while does on replays make it largely pointless between mandatory bosses, is a refreshing change from the slow, reflexive gameplay of past games from the team
-Making parry/visceral attacks part of the combat flow rather than just a finisher thats way easier to miss makes combat much more enjoyable, this is the best combat from Fromsoft no question
-Characters and voice acting were better in general
-Locations that stand out like mt.Segoku or Mibu Village are peak fromsoft and put a lot of soulsborne zones to shame in the looks department
-Weapon skills are constantly useful and feel like what weapon arts in ds3 tried and utterly failed to be

Negatives:
-Waaaay too much time spent around the Ashina Castle tileset
-Not enough enemy variety
-Only 3 ninjutsu in the entire game with only one being consistently useful
-Very few actual items that werent healing or status effect curing. A ninja with no caltrops or smoke bombs?
-Like DS3 before it there is interesting stuff set up with things like the Infested Monks that goes absolutely nowhere, maybe a dlc will add more but i expect tomoe more
-Hitbox issues leading to some cheap command grabs but happened a lot less often to be fair
-Replay value feels pretty low overall
-Sidequests have very little impact and many go nowhere
-Headless not being progress or even shortcut blockers makes them feel kind of redundant
-xp is flat out incorrectly tuned. It took maybe 9 more hours of mob grinding in NG++++ onwards after doing and seeing everything to just unlock all the skills, not mandatory by a longshot but i've never felt the grind so clearly in a fromsoft game before
-Not many traps for a fromsoft game

It looks like theres way more negatives but you notice them a lot more in retrospect while the good is constantly there to keep you going. I'm happy with my time with it and i think its a game thats going to hold up a lot better over time than something like DS1 where places like Lost Izalith have aged like warm milk. I'm really interested in what they are doing for their next game. Personally i wouldn't mind something more stealth focussed, or perhaps follow more of the infested stuff and go full survival horror with Kuon again.

Also i'm so glad i couldn't guess the ending. The endings kind of meh but i like a game that doesnt impress the ending halfway through or earlier.

[Yunaqt]

-xp is flat out incorrectly tuned. It took maybe 9 more hours of mob grinding in NG++++ onwards after doing and seeing everything to just unlock all the skills, not mandatory by a longshot but i've never felt the grind so clearly in a fromsoft game before

Nothing will get me quite as bad as farming all the tokens and shit in DS3 for completing the all rings achievements etc. Didn't have online so did this just by killing mobs with a very very small drop rate on them so it took hours upon hours.

I don't have much time to play sadly but about halfway through the second playthrough myself for my next ending.

Absolutely love this game.

[dope_danny]

Nothing will get me quite as bad as farming all the tokens and shit in DS3 for completing the all rings achievements etc. Didn't have online so did this just by killing mobs with a very very small drop rate on them so it took hours upon hours.

I don't have much time to play sadly but about halfway through the second playthrough myself for my next ending.

Absolutely love this game.

honestly i would say the xp grind is worse than the ear grind in DS3. It feels like theres so few places to really grind and break up the monotony and at the end of the day most of it is backstabbing on repeat for -for me at least- maybe as much as 13+ hours after doing everything else.

[Yunaqt]

honestly i would say the xp grind is worse than the ear grind in DS3. It feels like theres so few places to really grind and break up the monotony and at the end of the day most of it is backstabbing on repeat for -for me at least- maybe as much as 13+ hours after doing everything else.

Little late but nevertheless, got my plat trophy last night after having some free time this weekend so I manged to finish play-through #2, #3 and #4.

On the 4th I had barely any exp to go to finish the all skills trophy tbh. I did make sure to do 'Shura' third so I had access to post fountainhead content in the 4th. I have to grind 3.5 skill points after beating the dragon before going and killing Isshan for the final time. The last skill point was only 79k so I finished it pretty much bang on 5minutes just farming the antichamber mob which gave 4.2k exp every kill, so went by ridiculously fast.

Loved doing Shura and hated it at the same time, felt horrible having to fight Emma and betray Kuro, felt horrible :P But was loved having a new fight to do even if it did only take a few attempts since by the time you've played that much you're generally pretty decent at the combat.

The last 2 playthroughs were fun in the fact that you just dominated them, Shura I got through with only a single boss death on the double monkeys optional fight and a few deaths on the last being a new encounter.

My very last I had a couple of stupid deaths usually just being ridiculously greedy trying to close it super quick, but most fell over in 1 attempt. Isshan took 3 or 4 because I always get far too greedy to stagger in phase 3 and often just don't bother healing at all.

All in all I really enjoyed this game and a little sad it's over. It's very rare that I find a game where I go for the plat trophy for because I enjoy it so much that I can't stop. Guess now i'm just hyped for Ghost of Tsushima now which looks a little similar however, there's no way it'll be on the same difficulty not being a From Software title.

[leoooooo]

I can still rember the last fight with Isshin Ashina. This is a different soul game I've played. And I like his suit.Because it makes him look like a Japannese Ronin.
I hope Sekiro could have the second one.

[dope_danny]

https://gamerant.com/sekiro-shadows-...n-development/

Rumour is rumour but if its true and theres no Sekiro DLC boy is that a shame. The Tomoe and infested stuff in particular teased a lot more and this reminds me of Dark Souls 3's whole Cathedral of the Deep section teasing "the coming age of deep sea" people expected for dlc that went absolutely nowhere.