Everyone in the beta reporting that dungeons are REALLY easy :(

[TigTone]

Classic WAS fucking easy, people were just clueless back then.

That and mostly everyone had shit internet and shit computers so lag fest for all. Dc tank dc healer etc

[david0925]

and for people that name TBC heroics as hard. Yes, they were hard because they were unfair in a lot of cases.

The best example was Shattered Halls in which you have mobs that just hit really really hard so you need to CC (Paladin tanks with very high block chance in later gear nullified this). If you bring 1-2 mages, you make it significantly easier. Meanwhile if you bring melee, they will be either afk bow shooting, or getting a lot fo rezzes, because for some reason Blizzard think it's fun to have instant 360 cleave that cannot be avoided.

I've done a LOT of 45 minute Shattered Halls runs tanking with 2 mages back in the days for Magtheridon attunement. It isn't hard with 2 mages, but without, and especially with melee, you just struggle a lot.

In general I've enjoyed vanilla and TBC a lot, but a lot of the things people find them to be appealing simply aren't objectively true.

[FelPlague]

Right so if they were all so piss easy, why are the ppl in classic reporting the levelling to be much harder?

what? people are reporting the leveling to be much easier then they thought, what you talking about?

and again, early levels were very easy, but we were new, higher levels is where it gets "hard"

[Nitros14]

and for people that name TBC heroics as hard. Yes, they were hard because they were unfair in a lot of cases.

The best example was Shattered Halls in which you have mobs that just hit really really hard so you need to CC. If you bring 1-2 mages, you make it significantly easier. Meanwhile if you bring melee, they will be either afk bow shooting, or getting a lot fo rezzes, because for some reason Blizzard think it's fun to have instant 360 cleave that cannot be avoided.

I've done a LOT of 45 minute Shattered Halls runs tanking with 2 mages back in the days for Magtheridon attunement. It isn't hard with 2 mages, but without, and especially with melee, you just struggle a lot.

I remember going in to tank heroic Blood Furnace and the first naked orc punched my tank with 11,000 HP for 7k. That's when I knew I wasn't in vanilla dungeons anymore.

[FelPlague]

Sure but at the same time you need to keep in mind every private server player has noted that leveling is slower on classic, the disconnect between the dungeons and leveling mobs is what is curious about this topic.

I am sure blizz is looking into this and will keep us updated.

almost like private servers are not accurate, because private servers have been proven to use the tbc exp values as with the 2.0 launch all the websites changed to the 2.0 exp values which were much more.

one specific server was pointed to this and was and still is the first server to do the research to actuallty get it closer to the real values

so your logic is "an illegal third party who guessed says its wrong." ok... and blizxzard has the ACTUAL CODE

[RobertoCarlos]

Hardest part of WoW has always been finding good fellow adventurers.

Atm retail is a sea of emptiness and "Link AOTC +over gear raid by a thousand item levels for invite! scrubs ignored!" etc etc but Vanilla actually encourages you to group up with others

Is it hard? No. But you cant do a lot of it solo either. Which is the point of an MMO. Playing with other people.

Something retail massively lacks as you jump from instant que to instant que and never even say a word if you dont want too.

[FelPlague]

That was exactly what i wanted to discuss, not the usual 'vanilla was easy hysteria'.

except its wrong, both him, and you.

"muh private server" is the issue, they were wrong, cause they run off the 2.0 values, cause no one though to back up stuff until tbc came out and people wanted classic back, and by that point stuff was allready lost.

[potis]

Obviously, people believe that the streamer thats literally playing retarded on purpose and pretending its hard shit in order to get extra $$ because its the trend is the real deal.

Everything is as hard as the people you play with.

There hasnt been a hard dungeon in the game, there was been an overtuned dungeon, SL HC the first 3 weeks before they removed mobs, which 99.9% of the TBC players never experienced, there is a massive difference with the 4 stealth rogue mobs before the 2nd boss, when it was 10-12 of them or so, with at least 6 overlapping at the same time, 1 shotting everyone that wasnt a tank , that was the only place i felt "Wtf is this shit" but not because it was "hard", because i was stunlocked by the first 2 rogues which gave the other 2-4 time to 1 shot the healer and we didnt have a Hunter, and this was the first run.

After that despite the amount of rogues, we facerolled it cause it wasnt the first time, duh and then it got nerfed to what it has been for 12 years.

After that, its only M+ that actually has difficulty.

When i do M+ with the decent people, +15 Bursting is a joke.

When i do M+ with some of my friends, +10 Volcanic can be cancerous.

[threads]

most people in classic got 5-10 fps and didn't know how to keybind

[david0925]

Hardest part of WoW has always been finding good fellow adventurers.

Atm retail is a sea of emptiness and "Link AOTC for invite +overgear raid by a thousand item levels" etc etc but Vanilla actually encourages you to group up with others

Is it hard? No. But you cant do a lot of it solo either. Which is the point of an MMO. Playing with other people.

Something retail massively lacks as you jump from instant que to instant que and never even say a word if you dont want too.

Sorry, I never get this argument.

When you find good players, you add them to friend list and form groups in the future. This is the same regardless of what expansion you play. The process at which you find people is the only difference. I fail to see how finding a person through trade chat advertisement is any different than finding someone through LFD. If anything, achievement acted as a filter, if you wish to use it as such, and made the process easier.

Server identity I can understand, LDF/queue system argument I don't.

[FelPlague]

most people in classic got 5-10 fps and didn't know how to keybind

I got half way through nax
clicked my spells
M rasta 2%
edit, youtube, play other games, etc

im a clicker still

game has always been easy.

[RobertoCarlos]

Sorry, I never get this argument.

When you find good players, you add them to friend list and form groups in the future. This is the same regardless of what expansion you play. The process at which you find people is the only difference. I fail to see how finding a person through trade chat advertisement is any different than finding someone through LFD. If anything, achievement acted as a filter, if you wish to use it as such, and made the process easier.

Server identity I can understand, LDF/queue system argument I don't.

Running around in the world doing a quest designed for 3-5 people > Waiting in Org for invite and auto summon to raid

[suprep]

If I applied the knowledge I have now back in Classic, things would be MUCH easier. I know for a fact not everyone used voice comms, no min-maxing, the only keybinds you generally had were 1 to 9-0 and most dungeons were complete randoms that had no proper experience either.

Remember that people doing these dungeons probably had only one character that they were leveling up, they had no clue about how to properly play the game at that point. You now have people with years of experience at max level, raiding and what not. It's not the same boat at all.

I remember my first time in Blackrock Depths to get MC attunement (at like level 54), that stuff was completely crazy. Fast forward when we were farming MC and it felt like a joke since we knew what to do for others that wanted to get attuned. Not to mention all raids will be easier since people know the strategies and what is required, it won't be the same Vanilla people are expecting. Things will go much faster...

[FelPlague]

Running around in the world doing a quest designed for 3-5 people > Waiting in Org for invite and auto summon to raid

sounds like your just anti social mate.

[Gsara]

most people in classic got 5-10 fps and didn't know how to keybind

Thats pretty much how wow is now. The majority of players at any time in wow's history or currently on live are usually not very "good" or whatever the term is you want to use. On the other hand, you have now and had players that use keybinds and knew what strafe is and how to do it while using skills. I mean all you have to do is go pug some m+ or do lfr/lfd and youll see players overall are really any better now than they were then.

[Kelathos]

I played in 2004, and I am in the Beta.

The numbers seem fine.

[Drusin]

Classic WAS fucking easy, people were just clueless back then.

MMO-Champ needs upvotes

I have a bit over 1500 hours of /played, I don't expect any actual difficulty in dungeons. The only difficulty will be from people being dumb or making mistakes.

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sounds like your just anti social mate.

When I'm doing something I just want to get it done, I don't want any off topic conversation. After I get my work done then we can sit around and talk about other stuff.

[THEORACLE64]

Classic WAS fucking easy, people were just clueless back then.

This is the main part of it tbh. *Everybody* was new back in the day, along with a constant influx of new players going strong until after Wrath. The hardest/longest part of dungeons usually came with creating them or having to go out and find new players if people left. Apart from that dungeons were as straight forward as they are now, they just took longer.

[Nitros14]

I mean, at high level the difficulty is people being impatient and overpulling. The dungeons are dense and have a lot of patrols. It's just a matter of being careful.

[arkanon]

MMO-Champ needs upvotes

I have a bit over 1500 hours of /played, I don't expect any actual difficulty in dungeons. The only difficulty will be from people being dumb or making mistakes.

I think in the type of content i would compare to a vanilla 5man (BfA heroic / M+0) is quite comparable in actual 'difficulty' as far as how hard things hit, how hard we hit, how long things take to kill etc. What has absolutely changed is how quickly you can outgear the 5man content (leaving M+ aside obviously) I would say within an hour of hitting 120 heroics / m+0 would stop rewarding anything of use outside of warforged / titanforged items (another discussion altogether)

But in response to what you said, people still make stupid mistakes and pull extra packs now, but we have so many more tools to avoid a wipe - multiple classes with brez, hero, self heals, huge defensive cds, mass stuns / blinds / fears, nearly everyone can CC a mob, many even while in combat (sap the only exception now? cant even remember, never use CC)

tl;dr the hard part for ppl will be not having all those 'oh shit' buttons that every single class has now - sometimes a mistake will happen, and that will be it - you will just wipe and there will be nothing you can do to stop it from happening.