One classic nay sayer admits they were wrong after playing beta

[MidnyteTV]

There's definitely some stuff I think classic is making people nostalgic for. One of the big ones is probably the talent trees. Less brutally effective than modern Wow but they made levelling more... impactful... and theoretically allow people to tweak specs more than they can at the minute. Probably also slower rates of rewards - there's value in forcing downtime. And stuff like the unique hunter pets, class quests and the like.

On the flip side there's a bunch of things I think the game has massively improved which the 'classic or bust' crowd kind of ignore. Graphic improvements, transmog as a reason to grind old content (note - the arguments against transmog in classic... the 'transmog removes your prestige of sitting around in Ironforge' ignores how long it took to get a full tier 2 back then And how ugly a lot of the gear was. AQ40... I'm looking at you...). New classes. Professions that appeared (admittedly ones that are kind of gutted now) Also things like mount tabs, improved UI and a dozen others.

Wow definitely streamlined for efficiency as the years went on. Lost some cool stuff for sure and I suspect people who play it will be reminded of those things. Then time will pass and they'll curse the odd bugs, the weirdly broken specs, and miss aspects of modern Wow.

I'd say you're right.

However, I will slightly disagree with you about the talent trees.

Many WoW purists praise the old talent trees. I for one, feel as though they are archaic. The new trees introduced in MoP have been a welcome change. Of course there's the cookie cutter specs, but let's be real here, there wasn't much tweaking going on with this old talent trees because nothing was ever really balanced around them.

Even through Wrath, there was very little deviance from the established "best" talent picks.

While currently there are some clear winners, I really enjoy having to change a talent to accommodate a playstyle and/or boss fight. While the old talent trees have very little deviation.

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You've seen the light. Better late than never as they say

I wonder how many of the "haters" are dealing with an internal struggle right now. It's like when Mother Theresa admitted she was really an atheist at the very end

I by no means will play Classic.

I'll admit it, I am a Wrath baby. However, leveling through the 1-60 zones was painful. The old dungeons were horrendous. I hated having to travel all the way to a dungeon just to get in. I hated running out of quests and mobs to in a zone without hitting the appropriate level to move on.

I would definitely say I was a hater. But now I am a well-wisher. I want it to do well. Because that helps the game overall (my speculation/hope).

I just hope that the people who really wanted legacy servers show up and live up to their word. Because if they somehow falter, that won't bode well for legacy BC or Wrath servers.

[ManiaCCC]

Even through Wrath, there was very little deviance from the established "best" talent picks.

I just want to point that WotLK/Cata talent trees were probably the worst iteration. As you said, they didn't provide much options but not because talents were bad, but because that talent trees were just too big and not going at the bottom of the tree would ruin every build. This is the point where you started to play spec, not class.

Vanilla and TBC talent trees provided much more freedom and options for "hybridization".

[Lollis]

I just want to point that WotLK/Cata talent trees were probably the worst iteration. As you said, they didn't provide much options but not because talents were bad, but because that talent trees were just too big and not going at the bottom of the tree would ruin every build. This is the point where you started to play spec, not class.

Vanilla and TBC talent trees provided much more freedom and options for "hybridization".

The old talent tree system is one of the few aspects of the old game that I would love to return. That, and the ability to use spells from multiple schools of course. Cataclysm's talent system was a major influence on why I quit for the first time since starting in Vanilla.

[WowClassic]

Another high profile player loving Classic, this time it's Cdew:

[MidnyteTV]

Another high profile player loving Classic, this time it's Cdew:

Clickbait video.

I could care less what "prominent" youtubers and streamers think. It matters to me what I think. And it matters to the game what the majority of the playerbase thinks.

Time will tell.

[Gungnir]

Sure thing, it might be that the game has gotten worse, but for me, and many other guildes/friends, the game is pretty okay, and in a much better state than WoD. The game has been declining overall though because newsflash, it's 15 years old.

Age literally has nothing to do with what the quality of the game is at, the only thing determining the quality of the game is the developers.

[Melsiren]

I am looking forward to months following launch.

Lots of eating of words is going to be had.

[Awsyme]

I'd say you're right.

However, I will slightly disagree with you about the talent trees.

Many WoW purists praise the old talent trees. I for one, feel as though they are archaic. The new trees introduced in MoP have been a welcome change. Of course there's the cookie cutter specs, but let's be real here, there wasn't much tweaking going on with this old talent trees because nothing was ever really balanced around them.

Even through Wrath, there was very little deviance from the established "best" talent picks.

While currently there are some clear winners, I really enjoy having to change a talent to accommodate a playstyle and/or boss fight. While the old talent trees have very little deviation.

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I by no means will play Classic.

I'll admit it, I am a Wrath baby. However, leveling through the 1-60 zones was painful. The old dungeons were horrendous. I hated having to travel all the way to a dungeon just to get in. I hated running out of quests and mobs to in a zone without hitting the appropriate level to move on.

I would definitely say I was a hater. But now I am a well-wisher. I want it to do well. Because that helps the game overall (my speculation/hope).

I just hope that the people who really wanted legacy servers show up and live up to their word. Because if they somehow falter, that won't bode well for legacy BC or Wrath servers.

What I meant to say is the old talent trees improve the levelling experience (they're almost the polar opposite of BFA's). You improve, you get to make a choice. Yes... the talent tree was often garbage. That 'vital' increase in wand usage isn't exactly exciting for example. But you could plan ahead and feel excited each time you worked your way towards a major point on the table.

In theory modern wow talents work far better. Heck, I know they're easier to use or swap. I also know for all classic fans claim you can spec how you want... no one did. (side note... all the 'druids/paladins can tank and anyone bar priests heal? Not really vanilla. You never saw the first two. If you weren't a priest trying to get into a 5 man you had to BEG. Priests were healers. Druids for example were crippled by their lack of general rez and long instances which often meant mobs spawned behind you). BUT despite this it felt more impactful. Rather than just fiddling with 6 tiers... you had 50 odd points to allocate. Which feels more exciting to a lot of people.

Even now.

[MidnyteTV]

What I meant to say is the old talent trees improve the levelling experience (they're almost the polar opposite of BFA's). You improve, you get to make a choice. Yes... the talent tree was often garbage. That 'vital' increase in wand usage isn't exactly exciting for example. But you could plan ahead and feel excited each time you worked your way towards a major point on the table.

In theory modern wow talents work far better. Heck, I know they're easier to use or swap. I also know for all classic fans claim you can spec how you want... no one did. (side note... all the 'druids/paladins can tank and anyone bar priests heal? Not really vanilla. You never saw the first two. If you weren't a priest trying to get into a 5 man you had to BEG. Priests were healers. Druids for example were crippled by their lack of general rez and long instances which often meant mobs spawned behind you). BUT despite this it felt more impactful. Rather than just fiddling with 6 tiers... you had 50 odd points to allocate. Which feels more exciting to a lot of people.

Even now.

I'd say juggling 50 points on paper sounds great. But not when you have to dump 5 points to up your critical strike.

Just like they said during Blizzcon 2009 (I was there), the talents needed to be streamlined in some way so that ou weren't dumping points into boring talents. From my recollection, as Prot Warrior, i had 23 points that either upped my crit, defense, or shield block.

[Gungnir]

I'd say juggling 50 points on paper sounds great. But not when you have to dump 5 points to up your critical strike.

Just like they said during Blizzcon 2009 (I was there), the talents needed to be streamlined in some way so that ou weren't dumping points into boring talents. From my recollection, as Prot Warrior, i had 23 points that either upped my crit, defense, or shield block.

Except the new talent trees doesn't work either.
There's always the best single target throughput talent, and there's always the best AoE throughput talent, along with the best resource modifying talent.
The ONLY talent tiers you have an actual personal choice in is defensives/mobility. Even then there's a clear best defensive and mobility talent aswell.

Shit, I'd actually kill for a talent that actually gave me 10% haste in BfA.

[MidnyteTV]

Except the new talent trees doesn't work either.
There's always the best single target throughput talent, and there's always the best AoE throughput talent, along with the best resource modifying talent.
The ONLY talent tiers you have an actual personal choice in is defensives/mobility. Even then there's a clear best defensive and mobility talent aswell.

Shit, I'd actually kill for a talent that actually gave me 10% haste in BfA.

The new talent trees are much more intuitive. While the old talent trees were convoluted, boring, and required a simple google search to master. THe new talent trees require you to plan ahead of a boss fight IE: I have to take my AoE talent and my survivability talent.

[Daffan]

You do realize there was catchup mecanics in vanilla right?

Explain it. I'l wait.

[Gungnir]

The new talent trees are much more intuitive. While the old talent trees were convoluted, boring, and required a simple google search to master. THe new talent trees require you to plan ahead of a boss fight IE: I have to take my AoE talent and my survivability talent.

So what you're saying is that just because they're simple, it means they're automatically better?
Streamlining and simplifying sure has done the game great services.

Also, literally the only thing you have to check is if the fight has adds or not.
Hell, some specs don't even have the option of making that choice because their best single target ability is also their best AoE ability.
The MoP-style talent tree is the most dull, uninspired and simply disappointing thing I've ever come across because it just means that they moved abilities we should've had baseline in every spec into talent trees instead.

[MidnyteTV]

So what you're saying is that just because they're simple, it means they're automatically better?
Streamlining and simplifying sure has done the game great services.

Also, literally the only thing you have to check is if the fight has adds or not.
Hell, some specs don't even have the option of making that choice because their best single target ability is also their best AoE ability.
The MoP-style talent tree is the most dull, uninspired and simply disappointing thing I've ever come across because it just means that they moved abilities we should've had baseline in every spec into talent trees instead.

I guess just putting 5 points to increase critical strike is better....right?

[Gungnir]

I guess just putting 5 points to increase critical strike is better....right?

Yes, contrary to actual emperical evidence and popular belief, the 51 point talent tree only gave you 5 talent points to work with, and they were only crit nodes.
You've solved it.

[op3l]

I've said it and I'll say it again. Classic is only "fun" because of the memories you had with your buddies. I have a very fond memory of me being the hunter and getting "Aspect of the Pack" and planning out how to run to freaking Desolace from eastern kingdoms because we had quests there(or we ran out of quests or whatever) and that run took us probably over an hour. We were running and chatting and trying to find new passes(which we did in ashenvale. There was a tunnel leading to stone talon mountain that saved us quite a bit of time) and that to me was what made WoW classic fun.

That and not having a bunch of resources to know what to do in a dungeon and having to plan out every pull and having to discuss with party members and KNOWING which players are good and which are shit(no sharding) gave it a sense of community.

In fact, it just boils down to the game now just don't have communication anymore. It might as well be single player. We gamers play these MMORPGS for a certain amount of social interaction that we crave because we sure as fuck can't talk openly about this with just anyone in the streets. That was what made classic WoW so good.

[Specialka]

Explain it. I'l wait.

Zul gurub was à catch up mecanics and so was Dire maul. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Daffan]

Zul gurub was à catch up mecanics and so was Dire maul. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Ahh yes. Running Dire Maul and skipping entire raid tiers like Modern WoW. DM trib run > Attunement > Naxx 60.

[bloodykiller86]

An extension/expansion/update doesn't have to invalidate the previous content.



The point is I have time to play and I don't want the game to be played for me, e.g catchup. It being easier to catchup is a direct negative for me.

I'm also sure it's a negative for many others of all types hardcore/casual, as catchup/'seasons' was the direct catalyst for content droughts existing.

catch ups were definitely not the reason for content droughts

[Vibah]

Ahh yes. Running Dire Maul and skipping entire raid tiers like Modern WoW. DM trib run > Attunement > Naxx 60.

Hahahah... Dire Maul catchup? Are you comparing Dire Maul to modern days world quest or m+ dungeons where gear scale with each patch....?