WoW Classic Beta: Elite Mob Damage Comparison - Doesn't Add Up

[Segus1992]

Some of them hurt. The elites didn't usually do much more actual damage than normal mobs, but they did have 3 times as much health so they could outlast you. This damage is fairly consistent with my memory. I remember getting boosted by a half t1 warrior in Scarlet Monastery and he didn't have to stop that often. Mages had to stop for mana because AoE spells are very expensive.

I remember clearly, I healed him during the run, and we later did SM which he couldn't manage on his own without doing small pulls, so he brought another guy (T2 Warrior) to help make it faster. I had to heal the Mage to keep him up in SM. (Edit: I had to heal him to keep him up so we could do quick runs, not because a small pull would kill him otherwise)

Elites hurt. They did at least double damage vs a normal mob.

[nodlimax]

Btw. if someone says Stockade mobs should hit harder - this is also from 2006 and they use two rogues as tanks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOYmgdPy4ys

Sooooooo scary. Stockades only became "difficult" back then if you actually pulled 2-3 groups at the same time.

[Echocho]

If you didn't want 1.12 #nochanges you shouldn't have shouted "1.12 #nochanges" non stop for over a year. 1.12 was the easiest version of vanilla.

[nellkee]

I remember clearly, I healed him during the run, and we later did SM which he couldn't manage on his own without doing small pulls, so he brought another guy (T2 Warrior) to help make it faster. I had to heal the Mage to keep him up in SM. (Edit: I had to heal him to keep him up so we could do quick runs, not because a small pull would kill him otherwise)

Elites hurt. They did at least double damage vs a normal mob.

Here's an old video I just found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NVoqxhJWh0
It's a run from a 60 in SM graveyard. There are both elites and non elites and they hit for more or less the same.

There are a lot of old video already linked in this post where you can see that elites didn't hit really hard

[Coldfrostzero]

Big difference is knowing what gear to equip and not just putting it on because it is green or blue. I tank on a paladin in beta and am working on a druid... I know what gear to target and wear which is something I wouldn't have done back in the day because I was throwing on whatever. Didn't even put on gray shoulders because I didn't know they were the only thing available at that level back in the day.

On beta, the first set of shoulders I got on my paladin was leather. You bet your ass I put that on immediately until grey shoulders dropped that were mail. Having knowledge of how armor and spells work after 15 years of playing is a huge advantage over 17 year old me who didn't know anything about the game other than maybe the 5 second rule as a healer and how much spirit/mp5 on a priest felt "right."

[MuricaIsDead]

The real question we should be asking is, why does it matter so much? It's not like these elites drop anything, so even if they are soloable... So what?

[PelinalWhitestrake]

I see that op smoke too much health pipes.

1-they are using the former server blades info for classic.
2-Classic ELITES never hit that hard, since the DAMAGE back then was related to Armor rating, type and stats.
2.5-Classic uses the Same formula as Morrowind to calculate damage based on the level of the add and the armor rating that you have, though they don't use skills for heavy, medium and light armor to increase the DT and DR%, they cleverly use the item rarity and Health to sort it out, meaning that the best armor pieces that you have for your level + Your health pool, the less damage you take.

[Segus1992]

Here's an old video I just found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NVoqxhJWh0
It's a run from a 60 in SM graveyard. There are both elites and non elites and they hit for more or less the same.

There are a lot of old video already linked in this post where you can see that elites didn't hit really hard

A Mage was FAR more squishy in PvE than a Rogue because of Rogues' ~30% avoidance (increased due to difference in level) and higher armor, plus he's clearly being careful with the mobs despite being 30 levels above it. Graveyard is also a LOT easier than the other SM dungeons entirely because a lot of GY mobs are nonelites.

Those mobs hit a 60 Rogue for ~60 per hit, and you think 20 per hit vs a similar level with less armor than the Rogue is appropriate?

[Morbownz]

I tried to post this on official Battle.net forums just now, and received a temporary silence. Nice one Blizzard.

Hey, I have watched your streams a few times and some of your videos and you do create some quality classic content, I was glad to see you get a Beta invite. I think after watching your video it does seems to me like in some cases it just comes down to flavour (not all), but I don't expect an Ogre with a 2 hand to have the same melee damage as a Caster. I did play in 2006 and remember things like this being a reality, or at least, I remember some mobs would just hit like a truck whilst others wouldn't. Also perhaps Vanilla wasn't perfectly tuned at low level to begin with? Maybe there were oversights that were never addressed?

[Arainie]

What IS worth something then, Blizzard's words? The people who want as many as possible to play Classic and might think that with proper tuning, fewer will want to?

What matters is quite clearly factual comparisons and not a feeling. A feeling from 14-15 years ago can be influenced by so many things, while recorded footage with some known circumstances (gear, level etc) are just what they are. The streamers you're watching playing classic gear infinitely better than what the vast majority (99% is probably not a bad estimate) did back in 2004-2005 (and even 2006), and if they weren't dealing with mobs better than we were back then, something would be off. Using private servers for any type of comparison is prone to the exact same issues as feelycrafting is.

If you want some actual good comparisons there are plenty of people who put in effort to compare from old videos in this thread. Whether damage is off or not is besides my point, and I have not looked in to all of the videos here (obviously).
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/..._off_evidence/

Again, feelycrafting is worth nothing in the end. If the damage is actually wrong, then you're not going to get anyone on your side by questioning how "idiots" can't see this without providing any evidence.

[Charge me Doctor]

Gee I can't imagine why you were silenced on the official forums. Nice one Blizzard!

Probably he got silenced because they already answered this question and debunked it...

[Segus1992]

What matters is quite clearly factual comparisons and not a feeling. A feeling from 14-15 years ago can be influenced by so many things, while recorded footage with some known circumstances (gear, level etc) are just what they are. The streamers you're watching playing classic gear infinitely better than what the vast majority (99% is probably not a bad estimate) did back in 2004-2005 (and even 2006), and if they weren't dealing with mobs better than we were back then, something would be off. Using private servers for any type of comparison is prone to the exact same issues as feelycrafting is.

If you want some actual good comparisons there are plenty of people who put in effort to compare from old videos in this thread. Whether damage is off or not is besides my point, and I have not looked in to all of the videos here (obviously).
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/..._off_evidence/

Again, feelycrafting is worth nothing in the end. If the damage is actually wrong, then you're not going to get anyone on your side by questioning how "idiots" can't see this without providing any evidence.

First of all, I wasn't the one who did that. I'm just questioning peoples blind trust in Blizzard (which is odd, to say the least - yeah they've seemed to be dedicated to a faithful recreation, but is that all it takes for people to become blind?), they would have a good reason to tune damage to be lower for leveling dungeons. That reason is that their average playerbase does not handle failure as well as it did back then (and it didn't handle it well back then either) - easier dungeons means fewer frustrated/complaining/quitting players, and therefore more profit.

- - - Updated - - -

Probably he got silenced because they already answered this question and debunked it...

Debunked it? Source?

[inyu]

If you didn't want 1.12 #nochanges you shouldn't have shouted "1.12 #nochanges" non stop for over a year. 1.12 was the easiest version of vanilla.

Basically this.

[edw]

With 12 posts i don't know if you are trolling but playing on private serves and then lecturing us about how much dmg elite mobs do is pretty redundant.
The private servers are not the official server and if you played there for 5-6 years that doesn't mean they got the numbers right.

[urasim]

Comparing a BOSS to trash is really, really dumb.

Insinuating that all elites of the same level should do the same damage is really, really dumb. It has never done that, ever. Some mobs will hit harder than others. Some will be pathetic. Especially those in large groups. If that giant pack in RFD all hit for 10% of your health, you'd be dead in a few seconds because your healer wouldn't be able to keep up.

[Rathwirt]

Debunked it? Source?

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ence/178518/78

[Castration]

It's not even from Private servers... This is not how Classic WoW operated. How can you idiots not realize this?

ok there Wrathbaby

[Charge me Doctor]

Debunked it? Source?

Their very own "not a bug list" thread...
https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/...ot-a-bug-list/
They even referenced that exact video at some point

[Segus1992]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ence/178518/78

Their very own "not a bug list" thread...
https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/...ot-a-bug-list/
They even referenced that exact video at some point

Did you not look at the video in the OP? Why are you even commenting?

That's ONE mob, and Blizzard's word. How is "elites do less damage than they should" debunked from just that? Why are you so blindly trusting of Blizzard?

Them saying the damage isn't too low just means it isn't a bug, literally nothing else.

[Wilian]

SM GY was hotspot of soloing for many paladins between 30 and 40 before they nerfed the green drop rates. It wasn't particulary hard and even the packs were were doable so eh