Should the south secede?

[Kaleredar]

While this is an example why politicians will continue to succeed in scarring the populace into doing stupid shit. That issue should be dictated on the federal level, under universal healthcare. Instead, we are in a quagmire because Michigan and Pennsylvania voted Trump in. Last I checked... those are not south...

I mean the widwest has always teetered on being "The South: part 2"

As for Pennsylvania... it was the rural areas that saw him into victory.

[Nurasu]

I've enjoyed the time I've spent in the South and tend to think that people that have little or no experience with the South are entirely too smug about their superiority.

It's also pretty funny to me that a bunch of states that people think are backwards and incompetent still have way higher per capita GDPs than places like the UK and France. Think Arkansas is a bunch of illiterate dumbfucks? They still outproduce the typical European by a wide margin. Move over to states like North Carolina and you've got a state that beats out places like Germany and Netherlands.

They certainly aren't dumb - they've mastered the art of siphoning funding from wealthier states to support themselves. However, if you're talking about actual literacy, which is easily measured, they certainly are lagging behind. Not that I can talk, coming from Idaho; though they wish they were southern.

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As for Pennsylvania... it was the rural areas that saw him into victory.

It also won't be repeated.

[Independent voter]

Really, it probably would have been enough to just execute the Confederate leadership for treason, with prison sentences for major officers and agents.

That they just, with very few exceptions, let them just go home and get back to things was arguably one of the single largest mistakes in American political history. It allowed the rot to fester and continue. It needed to be burned out to the roots.

We'd still be fighting the Civil War if we executed their leaders and imprisoned the rest.

We even let them keep their guns.

[Najnaj]

Pig feet and collared greens are an acquired taste. If you fed people from Europe grits, they would think it’s polenta.

Pig feet are not an acquired taste, it is revolting and something I never saw in any soul food restaurant I ever went to. Collard greens are amazing.

[Kellhound]

Executing the traitors and imprisoning other major contributors would, hopefully, have prevented the lionization and hero-worship of traitorous racist murderer fuckbags, at least.

We should talk about fuckbags like Robert E. Lee the same way we talk about Hermann Goring. With disgust and revulsion, not respect.

The North was full of racists as well. As for being traitors, that depends on who you see them owing more allegiance to, their state or their country.

[downnola]

That’s not true; have you tried the food?

First post, best post. I'd put Cajun/Creole cuisine up against food from the rest of the country (especially the midwest, rofl) any day.

[Nurasu]

The North was full of racists as well. As for being traitors, that depends on who you see them owing more allegiance to, their state or their country.

The Southern states were more than happy to leverage the federal government against the Northern ones to protect their slavery interests and even expand slavery, right up until it was no longer going their way. "States rights" is totally revisionist, because if anything, the North was pushing for states rights to choose, starting with the Fugitive Slave Act. The South was loyal to the federal government until it was inconvenient; it was treasonous.

[Kellhound]

The Southern states were more than happy to leverage the federal government against the Northern ones to protect their slavery interests and even expand slavery, right up until it was no longer going their way. "States rights" is totally revisionist, because if anything, the North was pushing for states rights to choose, starting with the Fugitive Slave Act. The South was loyal to the federal government until it was inconvenient; it was treasonous.

The South was loyal to itself.

[Adam Jensen]

There's a lot to like below the Mason-Dixon Line.
Backwards thinking and the humidity, not so much.

The humidity alone is enough to keep me north of the Mason Dixon. Like, they could fix everything else I dislike about the South, so long as it's humid, I'm avoiding it.

[Polyxo]

I don't quite know if executing the South's leadership and incarcerating former southern soldiers would have exactly "fostered the peace" so much as it would have bred even more resentment and possibly lead to decades of protracted "unofficial" conflict from angered confederate holdouts. And there was already a lot.

I'd say a more direct and fastidious approach to actual reconstruction would have done a lot more good for the welfare of African Americans than bringing up punishment on confederate soldiers.

Dissolving the estates of all supporters of the Confederacy, and distributing the proceeds to newly freed and previously escaped slaves would've helped.

[Fugus]

1) Southern States Secede.
2a) Southern States go bankrupt because they refuse to actually raise taxes to fund anything and can no longer live on the welfare of the rest of the nation and their voters are so indoctrinated that they can't pass any legislation to fix it.

2b) While at the same time, the deficit in the rest declines MASSIVELY and without them fighting the nations best interests we pass laws and regulations that actually balance the budget and keep things going.

3) Northern states have to blockade the southern border because the new southern nation is full of illegals trying to cross into the new northern nation for a better life but at the same time don't want to accept the facts and try and bring policies that drag the rest down again.

Yeah, would be an interesting thing.

[Nurasu]

1) Southern States Secede.
2a) Southern States go bankrupt because they refuse to actually raise taxes to fund anything and can no longer live on the welfare of the rest of the nation and their voters are so indoctrinated that they can't pass any legislation to fix it.

2b) While at the same time, the deficit in the rest declines MASSIVELY and without them fighting the nations best interests we pass laws and regulations that actually balance the budget and keep things going.

3) Northern states have to blockade the southern border because the new southern nation is full of illegals trying to cross into the new northern nation for a better life but at the same time don't want to accept the facts and try and bring policies that drag the rest down again.

Yeah, would be an interesting thing.

The Southern states wanted a very weak federal government, which means they probably would have transitioned into an oligopoly much faster than the North did upon industrializing. They probably would have had a fairly successful economy for quite some time, in my humble opinion. Much of Rockefeller's wealth, in particular, would have come from the South.

[cubby]

Because it feels like nothing good comes from that region.

Ignorant red states filled with people who don't understand they cost more than they contribute? Good riddance. Those that are aware can move up here - we'd be happy to have them. They shouldn't have to fight against people who don't recognize reality anymore - and that's pretty much those in the South.

(I know there are good people in the South, fighting the good fight, and losing despite - please come up north, we'd love to have you and you must be tired of pushing wet sand uphill - let's give the South Trump and let them to their demise)

[Fugus]

The Southern states wanted a very weak federal government, which means they probably would have transitioned into an oligopoly much faster than the North did upon industrializing. They probably would have had a fairly successful economy for quite some time, in my humble opinion. Much of Rockefeller's wealth, in particular, would have come from the South.

Might be successful companies, but not successful economies when the bottom is living like peasants at best. They could end up with their own Gilded Age again.

[Ripster42]

They certainly aren't dumb - they've mastered the art of siphoning funding from wealthier states to support themselves. However, if you're talking about actual literacy, which is easily measured, they certainly are lagging behind. Not that I can talk, coming from Idaho; though they wish they were southern.

Like most mountain west, low pop states (vis WY, MT), Idaho has an impressive high school graduation rate.

[Ahovv]

The South is superior when it comes to cost of living and general food quality.

It sucks at just about everything else, from politics, to being way too fucking hot, too much religion and a culture of obesity.

[Cthulhu 2020]

They can secede if they want. I live in the south, and aside from a few metropolitan cities (that are strongly liberal) most of the south is an honest shit hole. The untouched wilds are nice, the areas where there's no people and just a lot of nature, but go into any podunk town and it's a garbage heep. Without federal funding, most of these places would quickly fall apart. Well, fall apart more than they already have. Most small towns are 90% boarded up windows.

I suppose that's the reason religion dominates the south though, they live in destitute conditions and turn to faith to ease themselves of their situations.

[enigma77]

I wonder if they'd get away with it this time. Last time it obviously wasn't accepted by the Federal Government. But this time they have nukes, I think?

So if they rebuilt the Confederacy with nukes, what could the 'North' (+California etc) really do about it?

[minteK917]

Im not sure Texas would want to pay for everyone else on its own. I guess Texas would prefer a seceding where they become independant but not linked to anyone else either.

[Slant]

Maybe the North could do its job and help the South come out of their miserable, uneducated ways instead of asking them to fuck off like this thread does. It's not that the people are inherently evil, they just don't know any better.