Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Jeezy911]

I agree that pulling the race card where it's not relevant is not great. It wouldn't happen if minoritys weren't so used to getting shit on for so long though.

Also, some minoritys are inherently disadvantaged. The average white household net worth is something like 10x that of black households. They start behind, expecting them to not seize advantages like affirmative action, and other equalizing methods, is unreasonable.

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Your right wing news outlets are lying to you.

For funzies I looked it up "The door-to-door poll from Stop The AOC PAC yielded the following key results........" stopped there.

Of course you'll take a "poll" from such a group at face value. I won't. The other results I found were from much earlier in the year. A poll from march is no longer relevant. You really think a liberal congresswoman, from a liberal district, acting like a liberal, has 10% approval rating? That should of set off your alarm instantly. But no, you read it and instantly believed it, no brain used at all.

And since you need it spelled out for you, pointing out the real problems in the country does not mean you hate america. The fact that I have to type this to a human is asinine. Colin kapp does not "hate america", he was protesting things in it he does not like. But you and many others drank the trump koolaid on that issue as well.

I dont know the exact numbers of the polls, but they are very unpopular regardless. Remember a cup of water could beat AOC? She couldn't win in almost any other district in america.

[Endus]

Except they are not treated equal. What all white college can they attend? Affirmative action? Minority quotas? In an effort to equal the lines, we have the exact thing these same people claim to be against in the opposite direction. Now they are pushing even further into reparations talk, it's the exact same thing as Jim Crow laws. One group is deemed superior because of race.

Yeah, now you're just lying about really basic shit.

There are no race-restricted colleges.
Affirmative action doesn't work like you apparently think.
There are no minority quotas.

There's no reason to push this conspiracy theory. Because that's all this is. A completely manufactured conspiracy theory, to try and protect the fragile sensibilities of racists who can't take personal responsibility for themselves.

[Hinastorm]

I dont know the exact numbers of the polls, but they are very unpopular regardless. Remember a cup of water could beat AOC? She couldn't win in almost any other district in america.

A non reply, cool. I guess it's better then a doubling down on your BS. Care to comment on the rest of my reply to you? Do you really think anyone who criticizes anything in america hates america?

You know what, don't bother. I'm sick of talking to trump cultists, its aggravating and ultimately pointless.

[Crispin]

The problem is, and I saw this on Twitter and it's true, people abhor these comments from Trump, and would like them to cease, but if you asked these people if they're willing to give up their healthcare plans to make it cease, they'd probably balk and say, "Well, Trump gonna Trump." I'm sure there are lots of Republicans who'd love to condemn Trump, but they take one look at the opposition and their goals, and it scares them. So they give Trump the old crazy uncle treatment, where everything he says is inappropriate but you just sort of get used to it.

The Democratic response to Trump was to veer hard left, and it puts the moderate majority in a tough spot.

A different Republic Presidential candidate is unthinkable? What happens when Trump is gone? The GoP and it's voters will still be branded racists, every Republican who supported Trump will be remembered for it and will have to answer for it in the future.

Just push for a different candidate in 2020 and disown Trump, that might just give a chance for a Republican President in the 2020-2032 timeline, the current direction will eliminate that chance.

[Dontrike]

Nobody even seems to understand the effect of these tweets, Trump knew exactly what he doing. While everyone on the left predictably melts down, it's a political win for Trump. The 4 people mentioned are extremely unpopular even in their own districts/ Like 10-15% approval unpopular in the mainstream. But the real point of the tweet is to now start a brand: Those who like america and those that don't. This will be the foundation of his 2020 campaign.

Yeah, no. This has nothing to do with liking America or not and you know it. Just because you swallow whatever Trump puts out there doesn't mean anyone else is dumb enough to do the same. It is funny though that you think his obvious racist tweet meant liking America or not.

[Xeones]

Compared to those they wanted to victimize without repercussion?

Yes.

That they could victimize those people without repercussion demonstrates that, conclusively.

All this whinging about "unfairness", and the only thing these people are facing is the horrible specter of being treated exactly like everyone else.

Telling people they are advantaged when they don't feel that way, realistically aren't for their place/position, and with no realistic way to prove how they are isn't effective.

I feel this is similar to using the "but what about hungry kids in africa" people use when trying to put down someone elses problems.

[Cthulhu 2020]

The difference between you and I, is that I'm basing my position on a comparison to other developed nations and their political frameworks and policies.

You're basing your claims on your own bias, and literally nothing else.

The Democrats would be considered centrists in nearly any European country. If not right-wing in some. They're not remotely "hard left", by any reasonable analysis.



They've spent the last 30 years essentially letting the Republicans pull the Overton window rightward, and pushing their centrist, right-wing members as the leaders of the Democratic Party, seeking to try and find a middle ground with a Republican Party that had zero interest in any such thing.

What you're seeing lately is the younger members of the Party realizing it's a fool's errand that gains them nothing, and they're choosing to stand by proper left-wing principles for once. Even if they're only a little left-wing; they're trying to pull that Overton window back closer to the middle.

It "makes no sense to you" because your own personal bias has convinced you the current American Overton window is "normal", when any historical or international analysis would show you how egregiously abnormal it actually is.

Indeed, unions are weaker than ever, the minimum wage is getting farther and farther from a reasonable standard of living, corporations are allowed to practically own the government, every time we try to raise taxes on corps the right screams "STEALING MONEY" and every time we lower taxes on them it's by Republican hands with no push back from Dems, about the only way the US is even moving leftward is socially, and even that is at a crawl compared to most nations.

[Crispin]

Odd how Trump didnt leave the US all those years he were bitching about the administration.

[Cthulhu 2020]

So lower class,poor white voters in the Midwest were advantaged? Probably the most disadvantaged group in the US right now.

By conservative logic, they should have pulled themselves up by their boot straps, created business and wealth for themselves, and stopped looking for salvation from the government. You can't whine about Democrats trying to help disadvantaged people then cry that Trump won because midwest conservatives felt disadvantaged. There are programs out there to help them, but they refuse them because "socialism", but for some odd reason are willing to take their hand-outs from Trump.

You might say "Well they just wanted jobs again" but the thing is, Hillary offered career retraining programs for midwestern poor in her platform, something that would get them into a career where they could pull themselves up. Trump promised coal coming back, and as an industry that has a noose around it's neck, propping coal up for coal jobs would have been a massive hand-out from the government. The government would have to basically pay for a dead industry to function, and make no money off of it simply because people can't be arsed to do something constructive for our society.

[Wyrt]

You might say "Well they just wanted jobs again" but the thing is, Hillary offered career retraining programs for midwestern poor in her platform, something that would get them into a career where they could pull themselves up. Trump promised coal coming back, and as an industry that has a noose around it's neck, propping coal up for coal jobs would have been a massive hand-out from the government. The government would have to basically pay for a dead industry to function, and make no money off of it simply because people can't be arsed to do something constructive for our society.

Yep, this. Clinton had actual policy to help poor, midwestern whites, but they rejected it for Trump. They don't want help, they want to bitch.

[Crispin]

Yep, this. Clinton had actual policy to help poor, midwestern whites, but they rejected it for Trump. They don't want help, they want to bitch.

"Bring back coal" apparently sound alot better for degenerates than "let's re-educate you and give you meaningful jobs!"

[Shalcker]

"Bring back coal" apparently sound alot better for degenerates than "let's re-educate you and give you meaningful jobs!"

Have you looked at success rates of those "re-educate and give jobs" programs?

As far as i see "bringing back coal" is actually more realistic prospect.

[Belize]

"Bring back coal" apparently sound alot better for degenerates than "let's re-educate you and give you meaningful jobs!"

Because one takes effort and a change of lifestyle.

You have to realize that a lot of these people have lived in Smalltown, Nowhere their entire life, and some have never left it, ever.

To them change is scary, it's why they hate immigration, because it brings change. So of course they were going to vote for the idiot telling them that he'd bring back the old ways.

[Dontrike]

Have you looked at success rates of those "re-educate and give jobs" programs?

Better chance than thinking a dying industry will suddenly go back to how it was 50 years ago.

As far as i see "bringing back coal" is actually more realistic prospect.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

[Warning]

The problem is, and I saw this on Twitter and it's true, people abhor these comments from Trump, and would like them to cease, but if you asked these people if they're willing to give up their healthcare plans to make it cease, they'd probably balk and say, "Well, Trump gonna Trump." I'm sure there are lots of Republicans who'd love to condemn Trump, but they take one look at the opposition and their goals, and it scares them. So they give Trump the old crazy uncle treatment, where everything he says is inappropriate but you just sort of get used to it.

The Democratic response to Trump was to veer hard left, and it puts the moderate majority in a tough spot.

Are you one of the people who abhor these comments? What's your stance? I feel like you're using "people" as a proxy for your own opinions cause you're not sure about voicing them. If you think this is wrong, condemn it and let those other Republicans, of who you claim there are lots do the same. It matters if sufficiently many of you voice your disgust. Not only to correct the administration but also those who may rightly feel this calls into question whether the government and the rest of the country feels they belong in America. If you're afraid of healthcare policy fight the healthcare policy, but do not accept this blatant racism in the process.

Furthermore, passing healthcare reform is not easy. Obama at his most powerful had a lot of trouble, and had to compromise greatly. Trump with a majority failed altogether. What makes you think these more "extremist policies" are a realistic threat, justifying this decay of moral standard?

[ati87]

Have you looked at success rates of those "re-educate and give jobs" programs?

As far as i see "bringing back coal" is actually more realistic prospect.

Have you ever thought about how your opinion doesn't matches with reality? A simpel google search shows that the so called realistic prospect isn't all that realistic.
Trump tried to bring back a dying industry and he failed as people predicted....

[Dontrike]

Are you one of the people who abhor these comments? What's your stance?

Dacien never says why or how what Trump says is wrong and only ever says "I don't like what he says". You won't get a stance from him unless it's in favor of Trump.

[Ghostpanther]

And yet, you're still going to vote for him.

Well of course. Not because I approve of all his antics, which I don't. Because at the present, there is no democrat candidate who I would prefer on policies. I will say, of them all, I would prefer Biden then the rest. Whom I also feel has the best chance of beating Trump. So you guys should be supporting him if you want Trump out of office.

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The problem is, and I saw this on Twitter and it's true, people abhor these comments from Trump, and would like them to cease, but if you asked these people if they're willing to give up their healthcare plans to make it cease, they'd probably balk and say, "Well, Trump gonna Trump." I'm sure there are lots of Republicans who'd love to condemn Trump, but they take one look at the opposition and their goals, and it scares them. So they give Trump the old crazy uncle treatment, where everything he says is inappropriate but you just sort of get used to it.

The Democratic response to Trump was to veer hard left, and it puts the moderate majority in a tough spot.

Those are some good points. You can still condemn his actions, but approve of him overall on what you feel is the best policies for America. There were a lot of voters who voted for Trump in 2016, because they felt he was a hell of lot better than the other choice. And if the Democrats keep on this radical road they are heading down, the same thing could happen again.

[Dontrike]

Well of course. Not because I approve of all his antics, which I don't. Because at the present, there is no democrat candidate who I would prefer on policies. I will say, of them all, I would prefer Biden then the rest. Whom I also feel has the best chance of beating Trump. So you guys should be supporting him if you want Trump out of office.

What policies does Trump have again? (I ask knowing Ghostpanther has me on ignore.)

[Shalcker]

Have you ever thought about how your opinion doesn't matches with reality? A simpel google search shows that the so called realistic prospect isn't all that realistic.

"Retrain and give jobs" is more of a dream then reality too.

It doesn't have to be "realistic" to be better - it just has to have higher chance of actually working, no matter how low.

Maybe if you would offer options that actually work rather then try making them chase things you think "should" work they would respond better (and vote accordingly).