Will horde dominate raiding like live for will min maxers go alliance?

[Hittion]

It's not about racials. It's about Paladins vs Shamans. And Blessing of Salvation alone makes Alliance superior to Horde when it comes to mixmaxing. Not even a contest. Who cares about Windfury Totem when you are already threatcapped.

And even if it were about racials, I'm pretty sure Human Sword spec is the best for Warriors and Rogues, while Gnome 5% Int (scales with gear) is the by far best for Mages. That's the 3 best (and the only 3 Dps classes for hardcore guilds) having superior racials as Alliance.

Hey you take at least a warlock along.

[RickJamesLich]

We used fury spec tanking in classic, too... We couldn't use it at the start of the game because the gear wasn't there for survivability, yet. All five mans, that were run by my server first guild, were run with fury warriors as tanks. It was just too costly for our tanks, who wanted higher pvp standings, to keep switching back and forth.

Also, even with the fury tanking threat was still an issue.

Not the same fury tanking lol. Here's a video that explains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_azvBdVgz0

Back in vanilla it was most common for warriors to for mortal strike and then the rest of their points in the defensive tree so they'd have some pvp viability while also being able to tank better than usual.

[urasim]

Not the same fury tanking lol. Here's a video that explains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_azvBdVgz0

Back in vanilla it was most common for warriors to for mortal strike and then the rest of their points in the defensive tree so they'd have some pvp viability while also being able to tank better than usual.

This just proves you didn't play classic. You can't do that spec against all bosses(some bosses couldn't parry haste). Parry haste would destroy any tank that played that spec. The bosses on private servers had low parry compared to classic.

[RickJamesLich]

This just proves you didn't play classic. You can't do that spec against all bosses(some bosses couldn't parry haste). Parry haste would destroy any tank that played that spec. The bosses on private servers had low parry compared to classic.

Time will tell but in many cases the bosses in classic were easier, it's been discovered for example that Rag actually has more armor on private servers than he did on retail. Plus it was uncommon for raids to be prepared to the same level (like having all world buffs) so the idea that it can't work is speculation on your end. That being said, people being more educated on private servers than you doesn't mean that they didn't play classic lol.

[Annelie]

I had no interest in reading about top guilds back then (and still doesn't today) but on my server the Allience was dominent in PvE and the Horde (vastly) dominent in PvP

On my server Horde dominated PvE and PvP. Maybe because it was the same server as Curse Gaming was on.

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Time will tell but in many cases the bosses in classic were easier, it's been discovered for example that Rag actually has more armor on private servers than he did on retail. Plus it was uncommon for raids to be prepared to the same level (like having all world buffs) so the idea that it can't work is speculation on your end. That being said, people being more educated on private servers than you doesn't mean that they didn't play classic lol.

Private servers also have stacking armor debuffs out the yazhoo. And dont have the same resist values as vanilla had. And i belive Pserver raidbosses have something in the line of 5% parry while live had 15% or around there.

[Bildur]

[QUOTE=Annelie;51413719]On my server Horde dominated PvE and PvP. Maybe because it was the same server as Curse Gaming was on.

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I don't know about that but yes ... I'm guessing it was different from server to server and will be so again.

Some servers will be either Horde or Allience dominated, some will be an even split between the two factions, some will have one faction dominent in either PvP or PvE (like on mine) and some will have one faction dominent in both (like yours). All sorts of combinations. I intend to play on the same server as I did back then, and still does (if it becomes an option) but only time will tell how the balance is gonna be this time

[Malacrass]

And even if it were about racials, I'm pretty sure Human Sword spec is the best for Warriors and Rogues, while Gnome 5% Int (scales with gear) is the by far best for Mages. That's the 3 best (and the only 3 Dps classes for hardcore guilds) having superior racials as Alliance.

The Gnome racial does almost nothing for PVE, math has been done. With very good gear it's a whopping 2 dps more, while the mana gain equals two more Frostbolts. It's one of those cases where something sounds good on paper, but really isnt. Escape Artist is sick for PVP though, that's why you will see all the tryhards going Gnome on Alliance.

Having another trinket with Troll Berserking is infinitely more useful for Mages in PVE.

[totino]

min maxers go alliance for sure

[Mukind]

Time will tell but in many cases the bosses in classic were easier, it's been discovered for example that Rag actually has more armor on private servers than he did on retail. Plus it was uncommon for raids to be prepared to the same level (like having all world buffs) so the idea that it can't work is speculation on your end. That being said, people being more educated on private servers than you doesn't mean that they didn't play classic lol.

again it doesn't reduce threat problems

you'd have to be in a good guild to know if it's true

you're not

lol

leave the changes from p servers to classic aside. The people you play with are so far from the ceiling they're irrelevant

[Heathy]

I think that loot itself plays a bigger part in terms of who will progress faster.

for example if you had a horde guild and an alliance guild both do 5 or 10 molten core raids, the diversity in which raid gets which loots that ultimately effects their ability to either move onto other content quicker, or down the content they are doing faster. for example there would be rather profound effects of a raid dropping mainly tank loot. or mainly dps loot. and how many runs it takes before you get the optimal amount of loot spread across the entire raid. this is largely something that neither faction has any control over what so ever, and largely why the 'world first dick measure contest' doesn't really mean dick when not all raids are getting the same loot drops. ie the starting points aren't the same. you're basically hoping that you get the exact loot you need to push what you're capable of doing in that gear or with that level of output.

usually most races that actually matter tend to follow strict rules where all participants start at either the same time or that the parameters of the race are the same for all participants. in a game that rewards loot on a dice roll its like having some ppl have hurdles in a 100 meter sprint and others not having hurdles and expecting it to be a fair race.

I still think the horde have an advantage when it comes to add based fights, the alliance have hunter slow trap but the earthbind totem is pretty godly in managing fights with lots of adds. there aren't many but i'd imagine gluth, razorgore, nepharian, twin emps maybe, any fight with adds is probably much easier to manage with the combination of earthbind and slowtrap, rather than relying pretty much entirely on slow traps to slow adds. this is the main benefit i see where most of the difference is really going to be tied to what loot you have and the overall output of the raid. vs utility that actually has an impact on how difficult the content is. how many wipes it takes before you get it right.

I think razorgore is a good example of the totem in action, I did the boss as a priest, the aggro management wasn't so bad for me because of fade and fear bomb and the ability to pop swiftness potions and just kite. our hunters had to be on the ball with the slow traps or you'd just get random blobs of dudes running off and one tapping someone. blessing of salvation is great but it doesn't really do shit if noone has built up much aggro on the mobs. mages can't really just randomly start firing off frost novas without potentially getting one tapped. but for the horde being able to perma slow the mobs, it kinda trivialises it to some degree imo. i'm sure you could perma slow as alliance but you'd probably need to stack like 10 hunters. likely more than 5 and have them time the cds.

[JJWF]

I think a very large amount of the population will be Horde just because of the racials for PvP which will skew the number of top guilds to be Horde.

[Mukind]

I think a very large amount of the population will be Horde just because of the racials for PvP which will skew the number of top guilds to be Horde.

class imbalance trumps racial imbalance. Not that horde is very good outside Orc anyway. WotF is terrible next to fear ward.

so unless you're solo you wanna be alliance if ur a min maxer

or just love to spam AB when it comes out

[RickJamesLich]

again it doesn't reduce threat problems

you'd have to be in a good guild to know if it's true

you're not

lol

leave the changes from p servers to classic aside. The people you play with are so far from the ceiling they're irrelevant

Considering that you didn't know what it was, but cited the guilds that actually use the tactic, I find it odd that you keep talking about something you obviously didn't know about lol. Do you remember which faction first fully cleared Naxx?

[Mukind]

Considering that you didn't know what it was, but cited the guilds that actually use the tactic, I find it odd that you keep talking about something you obviously didn't know about lol. Do you remember which faction first fully cleared Naxx?

didn't know what was?

I've raided with the literal best people on these servers....

Do you mean vanilla/ The clickers? Who cares? lol

Again you seem to think some plebs matter.

[Heathy]

dude all healers are essentially clickers, if i had 10 heals and 25 ppl to heal, i'd need 250 separate keybinds to not be a 'clicker'.

[Mukind]

dude all healers are essentially clickers, if i had 10 heals and 25 ppl to heal, i'd need 250 separate keybinds to not be a 'clicker'.

it implies a lack of knowledge of how to play teh game properly lol

yes you could certainly pve as a clicker pretty close to ceiling for many classes

but have fun as a raid of clickers trying to get to raid with buffs while an alliance 40 man is camping the mountain...hahah

And no you wouldn't...Just bind all your heals except the instants. Only instants need to be click casted and you can stop cast better that way anyway...Although idk how stop cast will work on this abomination of a client we will play on

And yea target with your mouse....

[Heathy]

I've always used heal bot, in classic I used, benecast? i think i was probably a precusor to addons like healbot, and vuhdoo and others. there wasn't a real huge diversity in what was actually possible, I do remember at one point they deliberately broke decursive and then it worked again. or i'm not sure but yeah ct_raid was quite popular but i don't think you could setup mouse over. I'm quite traditional, it took me a while to move to autotarget but thats how I play alt/shift/ctrl modifiers and right/left click. these days theres more muscle memory, i haven't been playing for a several month though.

for a while i had raidframes for targets and healbot for direct healing, it worked well for me throughout tbc/wrath eventually I didn't need seperate target frames and got used to having left click be auto target + flash but it requires mini stopcasts shifting constantly if you don't want to cast flash but you do want to target that person.

[Mukind]

I've always used heal bot, in classic I used, benecast? i think i was probably a precusor to addons like healbot, and vuhdoo and others. there wasn't a real huge diversity in what was actually possible, I do remember at one point they deliberately broke decursive and then it worked again. or i'm not sure but yeah ct_raid was quite popular but i don't think you could setup mouse over. I'm quite traditional, it took me a while to move to autotarget but thats how I play alt/shift/ctrl modifiers and right/left click. these days theres more muscle memory, i haven't been playing for a several month though.

for a while i had raidframes for targets and healbot for direct healing, it worked well for me throughout tbc/wrath eventually I didn't need seperate target frames and got used to having left click be auto target + flash but it requires mini stopcasts shifting constantly if you don't want to cast flash but you do want to target that person.

idk how it worked in retail...but it seems it will work in classic either way.

[Heathy]

all i'm saying is we all started somewhere, I never bothered to learn mouse over either targeting or casting i didn't think it would work that well for me. but there are still a lot of folks who click and not all of them are terrible.

I feel like there was a limit to apm anyway, the gcd didn't really change it wasn't as variable as it is today. there wasn't enough haste to really drastically alter your cast times. sure there are abilities that effect haste but gear wise nothing much perhaps until the end and t3. i don't think ppl are going to squeeze a whole lot more efficiency out of the game, less lag and better frame rates won't really change the actual pace and ofc thing like aggro limitations mean that even if you can mash buttons a tiny bit faster these days you're still gunna end up having to hold back and not cause a wipe or just pull aggro and die yourself. i wouldn't say my apm was great in classic, i don't think it was really spammy, at least compared to tbc where it was more frantic for healing. spamming flash heals and having a much higher apm. it became more important but i don't think it was for me in the beginning. if i just spam healed and went oom that didn't really help anyone. if you had to you could ofc but i think you need to know your innervate limits. not just put yourself into a 1 minute wand off.

[RickJamesLich]

didn't know what was?

I've raided with the literal best people on these servers....

Do you mean vanilla/ The clickers? Who cares? lol

Again you seem to think some plebs matter.

Well for starters clearing naxx in vanilla is a much greater accomplishment then doing it on the private servers lol. That being said I doubt Nihilium had many clickers.

But I'm referring to fury tanking, which you didn't understand despite playing with the best people on the servers lol. I'm guessing that statement was supposed to impress me, right? lol