Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[nonameelf]

Nothing stopped Democrats from starting impeachment inquiry on emolument charges or anything else; but it had to be "investigating Biden"...

Oh, cool, so you're just going to lie about things then huh? Good to know. See you later, liar.

[Orbitus]

In US practice those seem to be inseparable.

Nothing stopped Democrats from starting impeachment inquiry on emolument charges or anything else; but it had to be "investigating Biden"...

I think it's on same level as Obama's IRS targeting controversy.

("In October 2017, the Trump Justice Department settled two lawsuits filed by conservative groups that said they were targeted in the controversy. One of these lawsuits was filed on behalf of 428 groups, and the other was filed on behalf of 41 groups.[124] The settlement included payments of $3.5 million to these groups, an apology, and an admission of wrongdoing from the IRS.")

The targeting controversy that had NOTHING behind it? Even having the IRS person that started the "targeting" stating that all she did was insert some specific tags to look for specific groups to audit. It is just hilarious, that out of all of the groups, the only groups that were denied tax exempt status, were LIBERAL GROUPS.

And it wasn't just "investigating Biden" that started the impeachment proceedings. It was that Trump "asked them for a favor" to investigate Biden, while holding $250 million in aid that Congress had already given them, claiming it was just an "interagency error". It was nothing but a bullshit answer to the question as to why it was being withheld, and as soon as he was asked, the money was released, along with $140 million more than what congress gave them.

And I know you know asking for help from a foreign country for dirt on Trump's political opponent is illegal, Trump did it by asking your country in 2016 and he got that help. Hell you are still helping him by lying on this fucking forum.

And the Emoluments Clause lawsuits are still going through the courts. So to say nothing is happening there, means you have no fucking clue what is going on.

But thanks to Trump, he fucked up by having some people with fucking working conscience in the Whitehouse. This Ukraine thing isn't the only thing that is fucking Trump, and it seems that if Congress can get ahold of that server the recordings are on that Trump illegally moved them to, he is fucked. And Putin's biggest investment will be dying in fucking prison.

[Shalcker]

The targeting controversy that had NOTHING behind it? Even having the IRS person that started the "targeting" stating that all she did was insert some specific tags to look for specific groups to audit. It is just hilarious, that out of all of the groups, the only groups that were denied tax exempt status, were LIBERAL GROUPS.

Right, like all Trump did is suggest that Ukraine might look into some things done by former administration and their relatives.

And it did end up with IRS admitting culpability and paying penalty.

And I know you know asking for help from a foreign country for dirt on Trump's political opponent is illegal, Trump did it by asking your country in 2016 and he got that help. Hell you are still helping him by lying on this fucking forum.

US goverenment did it in 2016 from same Ukraine (with US Embassy encouragement) and got that help against Trump's campaign. You know, that "Manafort/Yanukovich ledger" thing.

[nonameelf]

Right, like all Trump did is suggest that Ukraine might look into some things done by former administration and their relatives.

He didn't suggest. He asked them to do him a favor. And from the looks of things, held back aid money to force that favor.

Stop lying, liar.

[Shalcker]

He didn't suggest. He asked them to do him a favor.

Stop lying, liar.

suggestion /səˈdʒɛstʃ(ə)n/ noun 1. an idea or plan put forward for consideration.

Where is disagreement?

[nonameelf]

suggestion /səˈdʒɛstʃ(ə)n/ noun 1. an idea or plan put forward for consideration.

Where is disagreement?

Because asking someone to do something and making a suggestion are different things. You're trying to downplay that Trump asked the Ukrainian president to interfere in our elections by saying it was merely a suggestion. It wasn't, he asked for it directly.

[Shalcker]

Because asking someone to do something and making a suggestion are different things. You're trying to downplay that Trump asked the Ukrainian president to interfere in our elections by saying it was merely a suggestion. It wasn't, he asked for it directly.

https://www.unian.info/politics/1069...sky-talks.html
As UNIAN reported, Zelensky's press service said on July 25 that during a telephone conversation, Trump expressed his conviction that the new Ukrainian authorities would be able to quickly improve Ukraine's image and "complete an investigation into corruption cases that had hindered interaction between Ukraine and the United States."

Or we can go with direct quote:
The President: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

Still suggestion as far as i see.

[nonameelf]

Still suggestion as far as i see.

This.

that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it.

This right here is not a suggestion, it is a request.

[Orbitus]

Right, like all Trump did is suggest that Ukraine might look into some things done by former administration and their relatives.

And it did end up with IRS admitting culpability and paying penalty.

US goverenment did it in 2016 from same Ukraine (with US Embassy encouragement) and got that help against Trump's campaign. You know, that "Manafort/Yanukovich ledger" thing.

They already did, there is no need for a fucking investigation.

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suggestion /səˈdʒɛstʃ(ə)n/ noun 1. an idea or plan put forward for consideration.

Where is disagreement?

That he asked for a fucking favor. You didn't read the transcript that Trump released, did you?

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/76416...ays-no-charges

"I would like you to do us a favor," Trump asked President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, according to the official account released on Wednesday.

Later in the conversation, according to the memo, Trump said:

"I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation in Ukraine ... There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that. So whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it ... it sounds horrible to me."

[Shalcker]

This.

This right here is not a suggestion, it is a request.

Stop splitting hairs.

All Trump doing is checking (using Giulliani and Barr) wherever Biden's involvement went against any US laws.

All previous Ukrainian investigation did is conclude that it didn't violate Ukrainian laws.

[Orbitus]

Stop splitting hairs.

All Trump doing is checking (using Giulliani and Barr) wherever Biden's involvement went against any US laws.

All previous Ukrainian investigation did is conclude that it didn't violate Ukrainian laws.

Liar. He SPECIFICALLY asked for a fucking favor. That right there, is against the law. That right there, is where the extortion comes in, because he didn't give them their money that CONGRESS gave them. Trump has NO SAY on whether they get that or not.

Oh, and Guilliani isn't a federal employee, nor does he or he shouldn't have a fucking security clearance, he should be in jail for violations of the Logan Act. Barr should be impeached and indicted, and Trump should be in fucking cuffs.

[Fahrenheit]

I'm a supporter of facts and logic.

I almost blew the coffee I was drinking out of my nose. That’s some good shit, lol.

[nonameelf]

Stop splitting hairs.

All Trump doing is checking (using Giulliani and Barr) wherever Biden's involvement went against any US laws.

All previous Ukrainian investigation did is conclude that it didn't violate Ukrainian laws.

No, he's trying to get Ukraine to help him create a scandal for Biden to use against Biden in the election. That is illegal.

Stop lying, liar.

[Dontrike]

Stop splitting hairs.

All Trump doing is checking (using Giulliani and Barr) wherever Biden's involvement went against any US laws.

All previous Ukrainian investigation did is conclude that it didn't violate Ukrainian laws.

Giulliani can't do any of that, so there's one fucking problem, second Trump withholding money to coerce them into looking into it.

[Shalcker]

Liar. He SPECIFICALLY asked for a fucking favor. That right there, is against the law. That right there, is where the extortion comes in, because he didn't give them their money that CONGRESS gave them. Trump has NO SAY on whether they get that or not.

Where do you see him making it conditional for receiving that money?

Oh, and Guilliani isn't a federal employee, nor does he or he shouldn't have a fucking security clearance, he should be in jail for violations of the Logan Act. Barr should be impeached and indicted, and Trump should be in fucking cuffs.

Using federal employees against you political opponents (like that IRS case) is even more against the law.

[Orbitus]

I almost blew the coffee I was drinking out of my nose. That some good shit, lol.

zenkai is the next Steven Crowder, conservative comedian that isn't funny.

[Shalcker]

No, he's trying to get Ukraine to help him create a scandal for Biden to use against Biden in the election.

No disagreement here.

They cannot create scandal from nothing though. It's about uncovering something that could be made into one.

I sure hope you don't honestly think that Biden isn't corrupt, and his son being paid by Ukrainian firm is based solely on his qualifications and merits though.

That is illegal.

So you claim, and yet i see many examples of similar behaviour and no prosecution.

[nonameelf]

Where do you see him making it conditional for receiving that money?

Trump had halted the money before the call. Now why would he do that?

And don't say corruption because that's already been proven as bullshit:
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/76445...ne-over-corrup

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No disagreement here.

They cannot create scandal from nothing though. It's about uncovering something that could be made into one.

Clearly you've never heard of Benghazi. It was a scandal created from nothing that remained a scandal even after Clinton was cleared of any wrongdoing.

[Orbitus]

Where do you see him making it conditional for receiving that money?

Using federal employees against you political opponents (like that IRS case) is even more against the law.

Well, just because he doesn't say they aren't getting the money until they investigate Biden, doesn't mean shit.

The fact that he still asked for a favor, the favor being looking for dirt on a political opponent, which is SPECIFICALLY illegal still makes this call illegal.

He used 2 bullshit excuses to not release the money, to which he had no say to not release it. 1. Was that there was an interagency screw up, which is bullshit. 2. Was that he wanted the EU to help them, even though the money was already appropriated, he had no say in where it went.

Also, why did they get $140 million more than what congress gave them? Why was Ukraine surprised they got $140 million more?


Oh, and your bullshit whataboutism argument in the 2nd sentence is just that, BULL SHIT. Obama didn't order the IRS head to do this, NO ONE DID. She said she did this on her own because of the rise and TRIPLING of the average of tax exempt status requests because of the FUCKING TEA PARTY that didn't fucking care about taxes or the fucking debt when Trump came into office, so you can get this shit out of here and NEVER MENTION IT AGAIN.

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No disagreement here.

They cannot create scandal from nothing though. It's about uncovering something that could be made into one.

I sure hope you don't honestly think that Biden isn't corrupt, and his son being paid by Ukrainian firm is based solely on his qualifications and merits though.

So you claim, and yet i see many examples of similar behaviour and no prosecution.

Considering the Bidens were fucking cleared, yeah, they are pretty much fine and dandy in Ukraine.

And that isn't what @Nelinrah is claiming, that is what the fucking law states.

[Shalcker]

Trump had halted the money before the call. Now why would he do that?

Thousands of reasons. Like putting pressure on EU to pay more (given that he complained about them not doing enough in same call).

Which even has some merit, depending on what you count.

Clearly you've never heard of Benghazi. It was a scandal created from nothing that remained a scandal even after Clinton was cleared of any wrongdoing.

US embassy staff died in Benghazi under her watch; it was decidedly not "nothing".

Biden's son getting payments in Ukraine also isn't "nothing" - even though it might still be legal.

You should really close that loophole, Trump's kids are getting similar benefits on his backing.