Do you think Trump betrayed the U.S.?

[nonameelf]

Sure it is. But you have to convince a lot of others that is what he did ( a crime worthy of removal from office) under the Articles of impeachment.

You can literally just read the incomplete and edited transcript that he released and he asked twice in that. We really need the complete transcript that's on that server that Trump put it on that it wasn't supposed to be on. Huh, that sounds familiar...

[Ghostpanther]

You can literally just read the incomplete and edited transcript that he released and he asked twice in that. We really need the complete transcript that's on that server that Trump put it on that it wasn't supposed to be on. Huh, that sounds familiar...

I read the transcript. Already posted that in a earlier post in this thread. I am not convinced. The last poll I saw on the subject, 58% of Americans are opposed to impeachment, with 37% for it. Rest undecided.

[nonameelf]

I read the transcript. Already posted that in a earlier post in this thread. I am not convinced. The last poll I saw on the subject, 58% of Americans are opposed to impeachment, with 37% for it. Rest undecided.

He literally asked twice in the transcript Trump provided and that's not even the full transcript. I don't really know what else to tell you. You're basically saying you're not convinced by the evidence that's right in front of you that was provided by Trump himself.

[Noxx79]

I read the transcript. Already posted that in a earlier post in this thread. I am not convinced. The last poll I saw on the subject, 58% of Americans are opposed to impeachment, with 37% for it. Rest undecided.

Of course you’re not convinced. You’d defend trump even if he murdered your family in front of you.

That fact alone explains why impeachment shouldn’t be dependent on polling..

Also it’s not a transcript, it’s a summary written by the very people this whole deal is investigating.

[Ghostpanther]

He literally asked twice in the transcript Trump provided and that's not even the full transcript. I don't really know what else to tell you. You're basically saying you're not convinced by the evidence that's right in front of you that was provided by Trump himself.

Yep. Right along with the other 58% of Americans. The burden of proof is on the Democrats.

[nonameelf]

Yep. Right along with the other 58% of Americans. The burden of proof is on the Democrats.

You're choosing to be blind. Nothing will ever convince you.

[Ghostpanther]

You're choosing to be blind. Nothing will ever convince you.

Well, you certainly have not. But not getting personal is the best approach. It is also off topic. We each are entitled to our opinions. I respect yours , even if we disagree. I have been wrong before and could be in this case. Time will tell. Not convinced yet however.

[nonameelf]

Well, you certainly have not. But not getting personal is the best approach. It is also off topic. We each are entitled to our opinions. I respect yours , even if we disagree. I have been wrong before and could be in this case. Time will tell. Not convinced yet however.

I honestly don't know what more evidence you need than the president admitting that he asked Ukraine to help him against a political opponent.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Do you think Trump betrayed the U.S.? Yes.

However by the Summary of what was stated so far. I am going to say based on what I read Yes, but that is only because Trump has a history and pattern of this kind of shit and he was even more recently recorded literally talking about what "How we used to handle spies" in reference to the guy who leaked it.

That said, as much as I do hate Trump, and I am not some 1st Amendment nutcase regardless to context, I DO think some of what gets painted with clear intent isn't always.

Case in point Bob Woodward complained the Obama administration specifically threatened him, and while I would agree in some exchanges they had not been as friendly I wouldn't suggest Bob Woodward was ever threatened

I think over all what gets considered explicit or innuendo isn't.

So as I said in the scope of the OP, YES It's a betrayal and not only in the language used, but the context being language he has used before, language in fact that has gotten him in the same kind trouble, since 2016 and since.


Clinton got impeached because he was unfaithful, if Trump hasn't reached the the level of infractions deserving of impeachment, then impeachment doesn't mean anything, and it is only a political device.

And right now the people eye balling the evidence and hand waving this, they are either full of it or willfully ignorant of the fact both Bill and Hillary were targeted and prosecuted for far far less.

[Noxx79]

Well, you certainly have not. But not getting personal is the best approach. It is also off topic. We each are entitled to our opinions. I respect yours , even if we disagree. I have been wrong before and could be in this case. Time will tell. Not convinced yet however.

“Time will tell” is a bullshit statement meant to shut down any differing opinion on an event.

[zenkai]

Well, you certainly have not. But not getting personal is the best approach. It is also off topic. We each are entitled to our opinions. I respect yours , even if we disagree. I have been wrong before and could be in this case. Time will tell. Not convinced yet however.

They haven't learned anything from the Mueller report

[Spectral]

I'm not entirely clear (yet) on whether his actions are illegal, but referring to them as a "betrayal of the US" is absurd on its face. Most Americans aren't actually that deeply invested in whether Ukraine investigates Biden's kid or not. Most Americans weren't aware that the United States was spending hundreds of millions of dollars arming Ukrainians and I'd wager a poll of whether that's a good idea would be split on unpredictable lines since the average American has no idea whether we're supposed to like Ukraine or not.

[Skroe]

I'm not entirely clear (yet) on whether his actions are illegal, but referring to them as a "betrayal of the US" is absurd on its face. Most Americans aren't actually that deeply invested in whether Ukraine investigates Biden's kid or not. Most Americans weren't aware that the United States was spending hundreds of millions of dollars arming Ukrainians and I'd wager a poll of whether that's a good idea would be split on unpredictable lines since the average American has no idea whether we're supposed to like Ukraine or not.

The message of the thread is incorrect for the moment, but abusing his office for personal gain is a betrayal of America.

And let's be clear, that is precisely what Donald Trump did. He was entrusted with the custodianship of the office of the Presidency to advance the national interest, and he utilized it in this Ukraine episode to advance his personal interests. And then he threatened the whistleblower - who followed procedure to the letter - with death.

This is why he can't be President anymore.

[Felya]

They haven't learned anything from the Mueller report

Trump getting away with using foreign interference is now something we just need to learn? WTF sort of bullshit is this?

[Calfredd]

Trump getting away with using foreign interference is now something we just need to learn? WTF sort of bullshit is this?

Mueller Report also didn't say what he thinks it said.

[Poopymonster]

Could a Mod please put a fourth option in "Which time" please?

[Noxx79]

Asking for a favor is not extortion. Are you fucking high?

It is when that favor is immediately preceded by discussions of defense.

And regardless, he is point blank asking a foreign government to conjure an investigation into one of his political opponents.

How much corruption do you accept? It’s sad that you’re so anti-American and anti-law and order

[Felya]

We used to hang traitors from trees. Now almost half the country is supportting the treason.

You sound like Trump talking about the whistleblower.

- - - Updated - - -

Asking for a favor is not extortion. Are you fucking high?

Why is president of US asking for a personal favor from a foreign leader, while representing US? Why can’t the president of US launch the investigation?

[Skroe]

Asking for a favor is not extortion. Are you fucking high?

Trump asked for a favor to serve a personal political interest, not the national interest.

And he did it after downgrading Ukrainian-US relations, including intentionally not sending Pence to the inauguration fo the Ukrainian President to send a message, including suspending transfers of weapons, including gutting of the Ukrainian state department staff, all to send a message to Ukraine. He made the threat of saying "play ball with me on a personal matter and get stuff you want" which the Ukrainian government understood. This is even why in that very same call the Ukrainian President highlighted how he stated at a Trump property at his last visit to the US.

That is bribery. This is extortion. He admitted to it as well. This is in the constitution. It is a high crime.

Trump abused the office he was entrusted with and it must and will be taken from him. The Constitution and the Founders demand it and there will be no compromise on that issue.

[Draco-Onis]

Asking for a favor is not extortion. Are you fucking high?

It is when you are holding up millions in aid against a country as leverage for a personal favor that will benefit you not the United States. Do you need me to link you the definition of extortion and blackmail?

Best part is that Trump already admitted to all this.