new forsaken leader spoilers

[Super Dickmann]

I liked you better when you admitted you just wanted Calia in the job out of spite instead of actually trying to debate something you have no knowledge of or prior interest in except for the purposes of trying to own the Forsaken playerbase.

Uhm you do realize Alonsus Faol the High Priest of the Netherlight Temple is undead too, yes? The Light doesn't seem to have a lot of problems with undeath these days. I think there was some discomfort, but it doesn't seem to be such a big deal for Faol and all the other Forsaken Holy priests.

Yes, and that's why he too is out of place. Dev interviews and shit like Zeliek show you how undead react to the Light - it's agonizing because it reconnects the body and soul. Ergo, you feel the rot and the worms crawling around your body and you're in great pain. You can still use the Light, but it goes against oyur nature, which is why only those with a strong will can do it, with Forsaken holy priests either being just that zealous, showing the titular Will of the Forsaken or basically masochists.

Which is exactly what Sylvanas and Nathanos are. They also didn't sport the decayed look of the other Forsaken out of solidarity. In fact Sylvanas had the power to restore them, like she did with Nathanos but just didn't care enough about the others to perform the necessary rituals. She even apparently used it on Derek Proudmoore so he would look more like Jaina's brother and thus had an easier time killing her. Yup, Sylvanas cared less about you then about her little toy assassin.

That's not what he's getting at, but you're wrong even in the weak point you make. The thing with undeath is that it's a traumatic experience - it numbs positive emotions, enhances negative ones, splits the soul from the body and turns you into a monster, it's also accompanied by a loss of your will and is, with the exception of Zelling, not a choice. Sylvanas and Nathanos fit all those criteria. Calia chose to be undead and her state is an improvement of life - there is no trade-off. The Curse of Undeath is no curse at all to her but a benefit. As for Nathanos, for Sylvanas to fix one guy she needed a relative of his as fuel and this still almost killed her val'kyr and her intention was to use Eyir to fix everyone else up. It's in her internal monologue in BTS. So you manage to be wrong on every point.

I give you this. However BTS has shown that not all Forsaken are basically Scourge with free will and brain power. If this is the kind of character you want to play, a mass murdering psychopath with bio weapons, I am not sure how you ever expected any faction to accept you. The Horde is still mostly populated by LIVING beings, how do you expect them to support your character spewing blight everywhere for fun? Even Garrosh would have killed you for that. It's probably only the mercy of game mechanics that allow this to remain part of any faction.

BTS goes in contradiction with every single Forsaken quest up to that point. Sylvanas did not need to be running some comical orwellian state for people to defect earlier - see Judkins or the guys with the bloodstones in Vanilla. Nor were all the Forsaken a bunch of pathetic sadsacks pining for human hugs which they were only denied by Sylvanas. The undead mistrusted the living who wanted to destroy them and the living justifiably disliked the undead because they were anathema to their religion and as already stated, were provably morally aberrant because of the curse of undeath. There's a reason BTS features zero (0) prior Forsaken characters, rewrites Sylvanas' stance on Lordaeron and offloads this characterization onto Calia and replaces this with basically nothing - humans who want hugs and will get hugs now that Sylvanas is out of the picture. They are not Forsaken, because no one forsook them, and they have no issues with their state or with the living. They have no relationship with the Horde because that relationship is out of focus - the only thing that grants them validation is humanity.

In short: Calia is a symbol of hope. She demonstrates that the Forsaken do not have to live in blight pools as they have done till now. That is exactly the point of BTS. Anduin and even Genn realize that the Forsaken could be different. It was only Sylvanas who deliberately kept them in the dark and gloomy because people without hope are a lot easier to manipulate then those who actually see something in their future.

You can turn back time on the dragon in Tirisfal and see Forsaken freely walking around Lordaeron Keep in-game right now. Every other Forsaken NPC in Cataclysm invokes the Lordaeronian heritage and brings up how they don't need to wallow as they did in Vanilla but can instead move forward. Others like the dark rangers see that as a way to fill a void in their hearts. Sylvanas herself tells you that the Forsaken are the heirs to Lordaeron and that because of that it belongs to them and holds speeches to that effect. This is entirely an invention of the book and never before in evidence.

The Forsaken identity is the identity that you can see in either intro of the Forsaken and in their questing experience of fifteen years. Sylvanas didn't make them hate the living or tricked them in the prior versions, they already did. What Sylvanas did do was bring them together and lead them. Try and find a single Forsaken quest congruent with BTS - you will fail and fail spectacularly.

[Kumorii]

They turning the forsaken Alliance compatible, so when they make the races playable cross faction in the next expansion there is "lore" behind the reasoning of rotting corpses playing together with gnomes, nightelves, humans etc

Sure, Idm them creating a bridge. What bugs me is that it doesn't happen naturally. Lillian instantly try to make Calia queen and Derek just "welp, I'm undead so I better join forsaken". If they make it over time that Derek might be treated suspiciously or being shunned by people and he finds himself not really belonging I can understand him moving towards forsaken. That however should take time.

Which is why I think the identity of forsaken just get deleted and reduced to "just" being undead rather than being forsaken due to tragic circumstances and the need of a home
It's like if Jaina died and get resurrected as undead and instantly flip flops and becomes a member of the horde just because she is undead disregarding all past characteristics and social standing with the different factions.

Or lets reverse it. If somehow Sylvanas become "alive" again and instantly join Alliance and being buddy buddy with them and going anti-horde or any other Undead character. This all just make it all about if you are undead or not, which is a reduction of identity.

Honestly the intriguing thing about the Forsaken is that each of them can have very different circumstances.
First generation Forsaken were Scourge for a decent amount of time. Many of them killed family members, some probably killed their entire family. They owe Sylvanas everything because she literally delivered them from hell. But on how they were Forsaken; that experience must be different for many of them. For some their remaining family fled Lordaeron and they never saw them unless they met them in battle during faction wars (or I guess during the BTS meeting; some probably were only truly Forsaken when their family discovered their existence and refused them). Others knew they had no family. Still others had family that remained in Lordaeron; those are probably the ones we most easily identify as Forsaken since their experience with the living is almost entirely negative. Still all of them had negative experience with the living because of the Scarlets.
Second generation Forsaken SHOULD have been markedly different. For most of them, their living family would have been driven off Lordaeron or killed; it seems unlikely many of them would have someone to interact with unless that someone was a militant like Voss' father. They also have far less reason to worship Sylvanas; if the first generation was delivered from hell, the second one was delivered to it.

Really, few of the other races, except perhaps the orcs, have as varied backgrounds as the Forsaken do.

I agree and many good points. They have varied backgrounds but even in all of those varied backgrounds they all looked for a new home, which is why Forsaken were created and why many turned to it after having their past being wiped clean and they don't really belong anywhere anymore.

Sylvanas loyalty is irrelevant to the arguments I'm making since I'm talking about as of why forsaken as a societ and faction were created. Noone of my arguments are about if forsaken should support Sylvanas or not, since it kinda depends if you are a forsaken who existed back when Sylvanas actually did take care of forsaken or if you are a relatively new one who see the current tyrant.

My main argument is how Calia and Derek going forsaken so quickly and most likely in high position is that it reduces the need for the faction to exist and reduces their identity due to the fact previous established identity don't really matter anymore.

Now when there is truce between Horde and Alliance It makes sense to make Calia and Derek work like a bridge to reunite forsaken and maybe make the faction less of a society of forsaken. Thing is by doing so the need for the faction gets reduced. If they stop being "forsaken" and gets accepted, newly forsaken see no reason to join that faction and will most likely stay with their family and friends in previous factions. Over time this is fine, doing so too quickly seems hamfisted and not natural.

The end result is still that the faction will seep away and disappear as more and more forsaken die off through battles and newly created forsaken realistically will stay within the faction they belonged to as they were alive.

How people can argue that this is growth for forsaken is sorta weird since this is just diluting the society as a whole and over time the need for it existence will be nil. Basically "forsaken" just get reduced to a skin and won't have their own culture or society anymore.

[Shakana]

. 15 years and all the Forsaken has is Lilian Voss... someone who only joined this expansion, who is now appointing(setting up) Alliance members... to be the leaders of the Race that is supposed to hate the Alliance most. Glad i don't play anymore lol

Lilian Voss has appeared in Cata refusing what she was, an undead, she only got recovered recently but she still struggles. She couldn't believe who she was. So for a undead "recent recovered" turning into a leader wouldn't be that great. She has loads of struggles with it, she doesn't want to be a leader. She doesn't want to create a massive destruction into the world either, but she always fighted for undead and against necro and scarlet crusade.
She has been on all expansions here and bfa you have seen her more, she is not just "someone who only appeared now". Rather more like she appeared now recovered from her struggles.

[akki22]

--- snip ---

You can turn back time on the dragon in Tirisfal and see Forsaken freely walking around Lordaeron Keep in-game right now. Every other Forsaken NPC in Cataclysm invokes the Lordaeronian heritage and brings up how they don't need to wallow as they did in Vanilla but can instead move forward. Others like the dark rangers see that as a way to fill a void in their hearts. Sylvanas herself tells you that the Forsaken are the heirs to Lordaeron and that because of that it belongs to them and holds speeches to that effect. This is entirely an invention of the book and never before in evidence.

[Shakana]

You can turn back time on the dragon in Tirisfal and see Forsaken freely walking around Lordaeron Keep in-game right now. Every other Forsaken NPC in Cataclysm invokes the Lordaeronian heritage and brings up how they don't need to wallow as they did in Vanilla but can instead move forward. Others like the dark rangers see that as a way to fill a void in their hearts. Sylvanas herself tells you that the Forsaken are the heirs to Lordaeron and that because of that it belongs to them and holds speeches to that effect. This is entirely an invention of the book and never before in evidence.

Yet they blighted their city because Sylvanas said to.

[Super Dickmann]

Yet they blighted their city because Sylvanas said to.

No shit. Else the city would be conquered. It's like the Russians burning Moscow.

[Shakana]

No shit. Else the city would be conquered.

And once again, yet they don't even care to go there, and stayed at orgrimmar and don't try to reconstruct it. It's a destroyed city.

[Super Dickmann]

And once again, yet they don't even care to go there, and stayed at orgrimmar and don't try to reconstruct it. It's a destroyed city.

They do care. The refugees talk about how Lordaeron will always belong to them. Paxton and company bemoan them. And this is after BTS retconned how mention of Lordaeron used to be forbidden.

[Raisei]

is this highelf dude the same who rp'ed as alleria and ve before?

nice! great candidate for the forsaken leader. you are eaither trolling or just bad in thinking

Oh yes, I must be trolling or stupid because I do not share your foolish opinion about a character that we barely know anything about (or your lack of respect for capital letters for that matter).

Ah well, this is happening, your rage won't change it and it would be an idea to safe your whining until after it is clear that Calia does not stand for the Forsaken you want (degenerate zombies with a tendency for mass murder I gather?). I know stupid of me to even suggest such a thing

[Tharivor]

Uhm you do realize Alonsus Faol the High Priest of the Netherlight Temple is undead too, yes? The Light doesn't seem to have a lot of problems with undeath these days. I think there was some discomfort, but it doesn't seem to be such a big deal for Faol and all the other Forsaken Holy priests.

What has Alonsus Faol got to do with anything? He's not even Forsaken. Unless there has been a massive lore retcon I'm not aware of, the established lore since vanilla has been that the Light physically burns the undead; those Forsaken priests who use it do so sparingly and with immense pain. Furthermore there aren't really any "Forsaken holy priests" in a non-mechanical sense. Again Alonsus Faol isn't a Forsaken (he's an independent undead) and the Forsaken dominant religion is the Cult of Forgotten Shadow which is a deliberate inversion of the Church of the Holy Light and the virtues it represents. This is Forsaken 101 lore and has been around since vanilla.

Which is exactly what Sylvanas and Nathanos are. They also didn't sport the decayed look of the other Forsaken out of solidarity. In fact Sylvanas had the power to restore them, like she did with Nathanos but just didn't care enough about the others to perform the necessary rituals. She even apparently used it on Derek Proudmoore so he would look more like Jaina's brother and thus had an easier time killing her. Yup, Sylvanas cared less about you then about her little toy assassin.

Physically they aren't rotting yes, but they remain imperfectly attached to their bodies with the accompanying emotional/mental torment by virtue of being shadow-raised undead. This has been a part of Sylvanas from the beginning ("What are we if not slaves to this torment?"). I'm less concerned about Calia's physical appearance and more about the fact that on a mental/emotion level she lives through none of the continuous mental trauma/twisting all other forsaken continue to experience, which is why her viewpoint on everything is "Generic Human" rather than resembling anything any Forsaken ever thought ever.

I give you this. However BTS has shown that not all Forsaken are basically Scourge with free will and brain power. If this is the kind of character you want to play, a mass murdering psychopath with bio weapons, I am not sure how you ever expected any faction to accept you. The Horde is still mostly populated by LIVING beings, how do you expect them to support your character spewing blight everywhere for fun? Even Garrosh would have killed you for that. It's probably only the mercy of game mechanics that allow this to remain part of any faction.

I concede that Blizzard, especially since Cata, has often gone down the silly psycho route for the Forsaken. But there are ways to nuance this without doing an instant 180 degree turn and become the polar opposite overnight. Not all the Forsaken we have met have been kitten-killing psychos but what has always defined the race is their willingness to use extreme measures against their enemies- when they are not immoral they are at very least amoral. Their development of the new plague and open tolerance of dark/demonic magics are a common feature to all Forsaken, and set them apart from other races.
I don't mind (in fact as you say its probably necessary) if the Forsaken are weaned of their genocidal tendencies, but they should remain a faction unafraid of using everything in their power against their enemies (which tbh should not be problematic anymore considering the acceptance of groups like DK's and DH's under similar pretences)

In short: Calia is a symbol of hope. She demonstrates that the Forsaken do not have to live in blight pools as they have done till now. That is exactly the point of BTS. Anduin and even Genn realize that the Forsaken could be different. It was only Sylvanas who deliberately kept them in the dark and gloomy because people without hope are a lot easier to manipulate then those who actually see something in their future.
She even executed those Forsaken in Arathi who showed signs of hope, because they would "infect" others and thus loosen her hold on the Forsaken as a whole.

Not at all. Calia represents a specifically human hope; namely that everything was just a bad dream and Lordaeron can be happily rebuilt with butterflies and rainbows with everyone forgetting about the horrors Arthas committed or how for years free-willed undead were hunted down like mindless animals.

What the Forsaken hope for, as seen in Cata, is a new independent Lordaeron beholden neither to the Lich King nor to those who abandoned them in their time of need. A place where the Forsaken can move on as a race and build an entirely new society, not mindlessly aping after a past which was traumatically wrenched from them and with which they now, even on a metaphysical level, are incompatible with. And guess what this vision even works without Sylvanas in the picture!

So if anything, the Forsaken identity was whatever Sylvanas decided it was. She filled them with hate against the living and actively hindered them from becoming a different people. All in the name of her own power and immortality. She used you. The sooner you actually accept this the sooner you will be able to move on from what she wanted to be your identity to making your own.

Or keep supporting her and we have one psychopathic undead more to kill next expansion. No big deal really.

Again where is the evidence for this baseless claim? Vanilla forsaken were brimming with hatred without Sylvanas ever lifting a finger. The established lore is (was?) that their hatred comes from their new emotion-dulled undead state coupled with being forced to survive on their own rejected by all the living. Sylvanas' personality cult just made everyone worship her, it had nothing to do with their hatred of the living.

Again I'll repeat- I seriously advise that you and others that hold this opinion, stop mindlessly regurgitating everything you read on a forum and actually go and play a Forsaken character in Classic. Then perhaps you'll see that the Forsaken actually have an identity of their own, as well as their own established cast of characters, rather than just superimposing on them your absurd alliance fanfiction, which ironically idolises Sylvaans more than most forsaken players.

[Tarba]

No, it's not about not being good showing a lack of depth. It's about undead as a race being pigeonholed by you to be just evil bitches, just like bitch queen sylvanas. I am far more interested in seeing a Forsaken race where there are both evil and good guys in, rather than exclusively evil or good characters. You are the one who wants to make to make undead be one thing, and one thing only, and never, ever develop. This is why I say that you don't understand what development means, and are immediately scared at the idea that some forsaken people do not fit your fanfic.

Nope you just want to retcon them so your snowflake character loyal good can become Canon. You are destroying their own nature to make them as bland as anduin green human, anduin blue human, anduin long ears human, anduin human human.
The same pile of shit everywhere. No nuance at all. No race characteristics. No personnality. No history. Just 8 yo fantasy book loving characters. Development means not denying their whole nature. It means evolving according to it.
Forsaken were not creature who felt love or had any cares for the livings. They should evolve according to that. Not do a full 180 and go in the arms of that calia/derek bullshit.

[Zurganak]

Several directions they could take this: council could have the different motivations of how the Forsaken perceive themselves play out and possibly add more variation of character to them as a race.

[Keristrasza]

I can't help but be amused by the "Oh no! Calia? RIP Forsaken Identity." Seriously, is the forsaken that bad of a race that their ONLY ounce of Identity came from the Banshee bitch? Really? If that is true, then they were horrific to start with and can really only go up from here. (Yes, that is sarcasm. Calm down, it's not the end of the world.) One lore character should not make up nor be the singular support that makes them "good".

I can't tell what I am more disappointed with this expansion. The lack of questing zones, or the vocal minority that is so scared of chance they are preaching gloom and doom if even a single solitary thing is altered in a 15 year old story arc....

[Shakana]

They do care. The refugees talk about how Lordaeron will always belong to them. Paxton and company bemoan them. And this is after BTS retconned how mention of Lordaeron used to be forbidden.

I only see Calia being a good thing for the forsaken to recover and have hope. They lost their city, they are homeless in orgrimmar, they are without a warchief that they devoted with everything. So ye, Sylvanas really needed to get out of the picture, their blind devotion to Sylvanas only made them lose a home, and get confused with what are they after atm. I will repeat again this one more time, she has been doing stuff that undead don't even understand what is her plan, she is moving on from forsaken. She decided it in Mak'gora. The undead that looked at her didn't just look at her because she said the horde is nothing only, it's because horde has been their home too even more after undercity was blighted so they were like, bitch you saying we devoted to you all this time and you treating us like shit? That would happen or else they would just turn into a third faction, because forsaken has always been their own faction basically. Them embracing the horde is blizzard's way to show there won't be a third faction problem anymore.
FFS, they have been struggling with stuff to do because of the lore of forsaken etc. They probably felt like they had to end this internal conflict within horde and forsaken. Also ending this Sylvanas speaking for all forsaken. It's true undercity belongs to them, they are the ones that died there. Not all undeads are from Lordaeron tho, but the ones that are and are the original undeads, they should have their voice louder in decisions. Go after their city and reconstruct it. Fk Sylvanas tbh.

[Super Dickmann]

I only see Calia being a good thing for the forsaken to recover and have hope. They lost their city, they are homeless in orgrimmar, they are without a warchief that they devoted with everything. So ye, Sylvanas really needed to get out of the picture, their blind devotion to Sylvanas only made them lose a home, and get confused with what are they after atm. I will repeat again this once more time, she has been doing stuff that undead don't even understand what is her plan, she is moving on from forsaken. She decided it in Mak'gora. The undead that looked at her didn't just look at her because she said the horde is nothing only, it's because horde has been their home too even more after undercity was blighted so they were like, bitch you saying we devoted to you all this time and you treating us like shit? That would happen or else they would just turn into a third faction, because forsaken has always been their own faction basically. Them embracing the horde is blizzard's way to show there won't be a third faction problem anymore. FFS, they have been struggling with stuff to do because of the lore of forsaken etc. They probably felt like they had to end this internal conflict within horde and forsaken. Also ending this Sylvanas speaking for all forsaken. It's true undercity belongs to them, they are the ones that died there. Not all undeads are from Lordaeron tho, but the ones that are and are the original undeads, they should have their voice louder in decisions. Go after their city and reconstruct it. Fk Sylvanas tbh.

The devotion to Sylvanas argument is a meme. Sylvanas isn't the reason they did many of the things they did - they shared Sylvanas' position because their experiences were extremely similar, hence being amenable to her stance. Indeed, prior to Cataclysm, it was the Forsaken who were more radical than Sylvanas - Sylvanas didn't actually care about killing the living or taking over the world or what have you, she just wanted to kill Arthas and then commit suicide. But people like Putress did, to them 'Death to the living' was an actual position to hold and they were spiteful of more than just that one guy. Sylvanas wasn't behind every single Forsaken nudging them to do things, they were acting based on the warped morality created by undeath and the justifiable reaction of the living against them. This infantilization of the entire race that you accept and that Blizzard are pushing is laughable and is only made worse when the only real change is that instead of being clones of Sylvanas, which they weren't in the first place but never you mind that, they'll be clones of Calia who is herself just Anduin with tits who have their own gravitational pull.

The whole bit about the connection to the Horde is false - there was more cross-Horde support in Cataclysm while Sylvanas was still in charge and you saw the Forsaken interact with Garrosh, Cromush, the sailors and so forth. Hell, there was more in Wrath with Thrall helping take back UC. The Forsaken prioritizing the Horde over Sylvanas is dubious, but I'd buy for the sake of them asserting their individuality. Them prioritizing the Horde only in a single cutscene only to then immediately pivot to needing a savior from the Alliance to guide them on the other hand renders the whole bit pointless.

@Tharivor is right that the people who say that Sylvanas is the sole Forsaken cast member and is the fault of everything give Sylvanas more credit than they should, but he doesn't go far enough since the writers do that too. They explicitly make Sylvanas correct by showing the Forsaken to be a bunch of lemmings who, had they not followed her, would've found someone else to attach themselves too because they are weaklings incapable of initiative or of resolving their own problems.

[ravenmoon]

derek king consort of lordaeron

Thank you, both for the info and for your response. The first few resonses above you have completely focused on the wrong thing. They focus on what they fear would happen to the forsaken rather than what is actually happening.

The forsaken become evil, hardcore killers they moan, they put it aside to be a bit more like their original selvs with improvement potential, and they loathe.

What if blizzard is setting up Calia to lead an undead allied race? And the forsaken are no longer one diemnsional evil buggers but have another sid eto them? Why must you think all of a sudden the forsaken are all going to be like Calia? Why not htink some would be like Calia, and some would be like Sylvanas? Why not look forward to the possibiliteis this new information can resutl in rather than moan abouut a result you can't even verify? Why always go to the worse possible conclusion to get yourself disapopinted and unhapppy, completely ignoring and failign to think about what else this means?

[Shakana]

The devotion to Sylvanas argument is a meme.

It's not a meme, there's not a single person that thinks about the forsaken without thinking about Sylvanas.

Sylvanas didn't actually care about killing the living or taking over the world or what have you, she just wanted to kill Arthas and then commit suicide.

Warbringers show you she hates life. You're saying she just got this trait but hanging out with undead? It's an undead feeling. She always had it. She just was more focused in revenge. If she wanted to commit suicide, then why she tries to stay 'alive'?

[Super Dickmann]

It's not a meme, there's not a single person that thinks about the forsaken without thinking about Sylvanas.

Yes, that's because Sylvanas is the archetypal Forsaken and the founder of the faction as well as its leader for fifteen years. Every Forsaken theme is represented in Sylvanas, except arguably the whole being from Lordaeron theme, instead it's a different fallen kingdom ravaged by Arthas. That doesn't mean that no other Forsaken characters exist or that Sylvanas is the sole cause for any Forsaken doing anything. That's simply outright false.

Warbringers show you she hates life. You're saying she just got this trait but hanging out with undead? It's an undead feeling. She always had it. She just was more focused in revenge. If she wanted to commit suicide, then why she tries to stay 'alive'?

I'm saying that Sylvanas lead the Forsaken initially so as to kill Arthas and then planned to kill herself. This was Vanilla to Wrath. Then she saw she'd go to hell and focused on making the Forsaken powerful/immortal to make herself powerful/immortal. This is Cata to BTS. Finally, she decided to fuck the whole business and kill everyone for some very vague goal. This is BFA and onwards.

But the Forsaken do not share those steps or that mentality. In Vanilla you have Forsaken like the rogue trainer, or those tied to Varimathras who already talk about Forsaken world conquest and killing the living. In turn, in Cataclysm you have the shift of mentality to adopting the Lordaeronian identity and undeath as a transhumanist state. The Forsaken and Sylvanas are closely connected, but they do not have the same span nor the same mentality in their majority ,let alone between individual characters. Sylvanas being in charge didn't stop Clarice, Judkins, Zelling, Onslaught and so forth from existing.

I recommend people play the old and new Forsaken quests, because A) They're good B) It'd allow people to discuss them without resorting to these stale memes.

[Rhlor]

So now the Alliance characters are put in place of Horde leaders. This is so bad. I'd probably be laughing if it wouldn't be so absurdly sad.

Looking forward to an ex Hellscream lumberer leading the remnants of Night Elves once Tyrande is transformed into raid boss.

let me remember this sylvanas and all the forsaken were not alliance originally?

- - - Updated - - -

Calia and the Mag’har Orcs in 1 faction......
It makes 0 sense blizzard it is like putting a Eradar as leader of the worgen next to the Draenei.
A undead light being would be the biggest nightmare of the AU Orc but lets ignore it.....

Not sure what writters blizzard currently have but they actually managed to destroy the Horde in a few years after Metzen.

Do you remember that blood elves have light worship? the golden eyes and the sunwell

[Trbn]

Oh yes, I must be trolling or stupid because I do not share your foolish opinion about a character that we barely know anything about (or your lack of respect for capital letters for that matter).

Ah well, this is happening, your rage won't change it and it would be an idea to safe your whining until after it is clear that Calia does not stand for the Forsaken you want (degenerate zombies with a tendency for mass murder I gather?). I know stupid of me to even suggest such a thing

I will not even read what you wrote, because I don't think a human being who could make an opinion about someone he didn't know a shit could write anything useful