https://www.wowhead.com/sounds/name:VO_Baine_Event
Here you go, too bad we got the crap timeline with irredeemable scumbag traitor Baine.
https://www.wowhead.com/sounds/name:VO_Baine_Event
Here you go, too bad we got the crap timeline with irredeemable scumbag traitor Baine.
"Oh, wait..." what? Oh, resorting to a crappy straw-man in lieu of an argument? How original And that in-game portrayal of things, especially that of ease and speed of transit or scale is terrible to go by shouldn't be a surprise to anyone paying the slightest amount of attention. Armies aren't teleporting around from place to place. Jaina's feats of teleportation magic are considered to be amazing. Hearthstones are near-mythical objects. And @Super Dickmann just told you how Mages weren't exactly commonplace in Orgrimmar until Cata. And even then areas with more Mages have suffered droughts. How can that be if Mages can just conjure water on a large scale, eh? And yes, there's fuckton of societies surviving on fish alone.
Ah, got it right then. Cheers. It just shows how MU is indeed the darkest timeline. Same as how our Garrosh was apparently the worst one. Pinging @mickybrighteyes
It's just amazing how you didn't get what @TheRagebear was saying there.
So the fact that "Thrall subjected his people to living in a barren wasteland" is self-admittedly both a major retcon and an illogical plot device has no bearings whatsoever on the credibility of the argument that "Thrall's an asshole, Garrosh was right?" Is that what I'm reading from you? If so, you forfeit all rights to criticize Illidan's "redemption arc" and pretty much Warlords of Draenor in its entirety, maybe the time travel aspect notwithstanding. You don't really, but do you not see the ridiculousness of it? Even if we take mage portals, and mages conjuring food and water en masse out of the equation, do you know how fucking huge Kalimdor is? Where do you draw the line where in-game representation does not translate to lore? There are literally forests surrounding Dire Maul, wildlife in Southern Barrens, fucking dinosaurs walking U'goro Crater, and Winterspring, Stonetalon Mountains, Azshara, and Tanaris crawling with wildlife and lumber Orcs can reach on foot, mounted, or in caravans and vehicles, yet the easiest fucking route to get some wood is invading night territory to incite conflict? That's some major limbo to justify that level of shit writing.
I'm not advocating for World of Peacecraft, but if you're going to try to advocate for the goofball, kindergarten-level of story-telling that Blizzard puts out, it's not going to happen without getting picked apart. I'm sorry that the "Thrall is an asshole, he put his people in a shit desert fortress, Garrosh was right" argument doesn't hold water, that's not your fault, you didn't write it, but don't die on a hill pretending it makes a lick of sense. Everything to do with this plot was forced or retconned to make Thrall look HORRIBLE, even though he was regarded a hero, and Moses-level figure in Warcraft III. But no, Thrall's an asshole, and Garrosh was right. Even if the "Thrall is a self-righteous masochistic dickface to his people" story wasn't illogical and a forced plot device to make Garrosh anything short of a monster, by that logic, when God made the Jews walk the desert for 40 years, he was wrong. Hate to bring in real world parallels but it's to bring to light how awful this argument even is.
Last edited by Kyphael; 2019-10-11 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Fixed typos.
I had a long thing typed, pointing out that the Bael'dun, Bael Modan, and Mulgore expeditions were a single anomalous expedition, referencing the defences of the other expeditions, their ability to work with other races, and then I found these bits of information which are a little bit more convincing regarding the Stormpike's motivations than what you initially linked. It could be argued that this is something that came about post Frostwolf aggression, but it seems that the Stormpike were being the aggressors for the purposes of Dwarven expansionism.
- Reference: https://classic.wowhead.com/quest=72...ign-imperativeOriginally Posted by Lieutenant Haggerdin
- Reference: https://classic.wowhead.com/item=194...wolf-artichokeOriginally Posted by Vanndar Stormpike
Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief
Back when Alliance was actually allowed to have a story and be anything but a Horde plot device. Besides, Frostwolves are squatting on the remains of a kingdom the Old Horde destroyed. If it's Horde territory because of that, then Dwarves have every right to try to reconquer it for the Alliance.
Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/
Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/
Now that I’ve played Classic, I have to say how refreshing it is to have Alliance forces be aggressive and have morally gray agendas (dwarves especially). It drives the story and makes the Horde being war-based make more sense, since their main competitor isn’t the perfect little collective they are on retail. Of course modern Horde will always be the evil faction, since every conflict with the Alliance HAS to originate from the Horde attacking the Alliance, because god forbid the Alliance having agendas that means taking something from the Horde...
This also lets Horde characters actually maintain the savage noble-ness they value. Reading quests given by orcish NPCs show that a lot of them value honor and acting within a code of conduct, as seen by for example how the Fallen Hero of the Horde in Swamp of Sorrows is lamenting the fact that he was rash and took his team of 20 top-notch soldiers into the Blasted Lands without waiting for their orders. He fears that the orders might have held information that would have saved his troops from horrible deaths (it did), and that his rash decision has dishonored the Horde and his Warchief.
He later wants you to get him the orders that he didn’t get to see, for him to see if they would have saved his troops. When you ask the commander at Stonard about what happened to the orders, he is obviously insulted at first, going as far as to stating «What are you implying?» before telling you what happened to the troops he sent with the orders.
It feels like the current writers can only write the Horde/Alliance relationship in a binary state. Either we are at full out war, or we are at full on peace. Dustwallow Marsh is a perfect example from Classic on how I personally feel like the Horde and Alliance should be at their most peaceful; The Horde and Theramore are in a really strained state of armistice, with both sides spying on eachother and trying to steal information from eachother, as well as always suspecting the other faction of having a hand in anything negative that happens in the zone (Decapitated Orc Head, the burned down inn etc). This works because both the Horde and Alliance have plotlines where they are the obvious aggressors (one could argue that it is unknown if Tarren Mill or Southshore started the conflict in Hillsbrad, but I would make it a safe bet that the Forsaken started it, potentially after Dalaran wizards encroached into Silverpine?), so the factions are justified in being extremely wary of the other.
In retail WoW the Horde has NO basis to suspect the Alliance of ever doing anything questionable. Because of this the Horde has no reason to maintain its more war-like systems, because their competing superpower oozes peaceful intentions from every front. The only current potential aggressor from the Alliance is Tyrande, which is A) - direct revenge for an originally Horde aggression, and B) - very clearly, even to the Horde, not approved by the core of the Alliance. The plot cannot justify the Horde being unfriendly with the Alliance even if they’re not in a direct war because the Alliance never does anything to make the Horde be justified in it. In Classic it worked because races had a much higher impact than the Alliance as a whole, so while the Alliance and Horde weren’t in an official war, the Orcs were still operating in Ashenvale and skirmished with the Night Elves, the Forsaken battled Humans in Hillsbrad, and Dwarves expanded aggressively into the Barrens, Mulgore and Alterac Valley, clashing with the Tauren and Orcs especially.
Since some goldiewhatever started writing the wow novels and whoever got in charge of wow lore, wow became a political correctness propaganda pamphlet
Well, I have unsubscribed because of the dumpster fire they made of Horde lore. (And having the Horde beg for Alliance forgiveness is only making things worse.) So if you think that is important, you will have to let me know what quests and I can look them up. But I have to say that giving out quests doesn't have the impact of showing someone giving orders to the other faction's army.
Horde weren't aprticularly war mongering in WC3. Thrall led them away form conflict in fact, to find a new peaceful life.
You're thinking of the Old Horde.
RETH
The most confusing part is people like to pin post-WotLK as when the lore went downhill, yet that is exactly the point where the Horde became more warmongery under Garrosh.
Make up your darn minds, guys.
They have absolutely set the groundwork for their return to that position, right down to them not being easily trusted due to their dark past, which we as players now have actually participated in, rather than hearing about in some distant game of another genre decades ago few of us have seen anything of.
I for one, am eager to see where that goes, especially since they are brewing up more forsaken storytelling with Sylvanas gone and them trying to find their place once again amidst these feelings of abandonment.
I'm still not understanding where it is you saw Anduin giving orders to Horde troops. I saw rebellion troops being given orders by a rebellion leader. Why is that such a big deal?
The Alliance and Horde are still separate, they're just not at war anymore. There was a joint rebellion force that has now basically disbanded.
I don't care enough about the story or have any vested interest in it going one way or the other. I'm just along for the ride. It's still entertaining to me, in the sense that I'm still curious enough about the story to find out where it's going and as cheesy as I see some of the things going on...NONE of it is implausible or nearly as bad or contrived as some of the shows out there.
Golden has been writing novels since before mop In what way has wow become politically correct since then?
Nuking gnomes and having there body’s then to dust doesn’t seem very politically correct, neither does trying to drown a city full or Civs or killing orcs with shards of broken glass.
Mop wod and legion all had some pretty dark stuff in it which wouldn’t fall under political correctness.
Then we have bfa which took it up to 11 with thousands of civs burning alive in great detail farm folk pinned to walls in front of there kids and leaders blighting there own troops.
So how exactly has golden made Warcraft pc?
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Kalimdor is massive that’s the problem you don’t seem to grasp that wow is the size of an actual world not the thing you can run across in 20 min in game. The orcs live in a massive desert with other good pieces of land being far away other then night elf lands. The only real options are to run massive supply lines which would be targeted and attacked none stop like what we saw in the battle field barrens or to get resources from the huge forest right next door that some stupid elf’s won’t let you touch.
The horde even tried to make trade deals with the night elf’s but that fell though because of the twilight hammer and then a stupid cow challenging garrosh. That left the orcs high and dry and a point and time where they needed to beef up there defences because the alliance declared war on them and the world it self was breaking open.
Garrosh made the right choice.
The right choice being use his power to subject other Horde races to his prejudice and line up Orcs loyal to him for the slaughter? Now he's six feet under and getting eaten by maggots. Sure seems like running supply lines might have been a better choice than encroaching on enemy territory. I understand Kalimdor is huge, but even in lore, goblins are known to be able to build incredible vehicles and flying machines. That might be a little exaggerated but not to the extent they couldn't possibly maintain a supply line and transport of goods from south of Southern Barrens. Sure that might have been subject to interference and attacks, but it's nothing Orcs couldn't defend, and surely would require less man power than fighting a war. Not to mention if they have ships that can take them to Northrend and Pandaria where they build strongholds, how does that reflect on their poverty back home? They can afford war, send troops oversee, build garrisons, footholds, and feed all troops, but back home they starve.
I'm accepting of the fact the writers chose this retconned plot device to justify Garrosh's power trip, but given player reception to it, and the end result being Garrosh dead, it seemed like even less a good idea to paint Thrall as a failure to prop up Garrosh only to end up with him dead on Nagrand with his face in the mud.
Right choice indeed.