Why the Shadowlands make me depressed

[Wilfire]

Point 1. Blizzard retconned a lot of lore to make them happen
This point has already been beaten to death by other posters but I feel like I have to go over it again. Retconning lore on a grand scale like they did with the Shadowlands cheapens everything that happened in the old continuity. Kil'jaeden is no longer a powerful, ingenious demon lord who created the Scourge. He's just some cheap hack who had his goons steal some artifacts from the Shadowlands and then borrowed Maldraxxus' magic. By extensions the Nathrezim are lame too now since they aren't the masters of necromantic magic and the creators of Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination that we thought they were. And this example is just the tip of the iceberg. I won't be buying WC3: Reforged now because replaying the campaign knowing that Kil'jaeden, Ner'zhul & co were just cheap hacks who borrowed or stole stuff that wasn't theirs won't feel right.

Other lore simply doesn't work in the new continuity. If all the souls have been going to the Maw since (at the very least) Teldrassil and no one escapes from the Maw, how did Delaryn and Sira get raised? It's just a glaring plothole now.

But worst of all, it's hard to care about the lore when Blizzard keeps making shit up on the spot and coming up with new "biggest threat ever" every other year or so and waylaying established characters. Why get invested in the lore of the Shadowlands when it's a given that the Jailer will end up being a mook for some other cosmic threat? Speaking of waylayed characters...

Point 2. Why do the Shadowlands deserve their own expansion in the first place?
People were hyped to go to Argus for at least a decade. It ended up being a couple of barren rocks floating in space and Sargeras' main base of operations was somehow less impressive than Scourge fortresses in Icecrown, who were supposed to be the Legion's proxies. Did you want to see the purple heels of Mac'Aree? Fuck you. Advanced Eredar technology? Fuck you. Grandiose Burning Legion strongholds? Fuck you.

Same goes for Nazjatar. The branch of Naga in the Outland somehow managed to have a more impressive presence in Zangarmarsh than in their own capital on Azeroth. At least the Coilfang facility had 3 dungeons and a raid. Nazjatar was just one small raid surrounded by a barren seafloor and... that's it.

Won't even get started on Ny'alotha. What they did there after a decade of build up is an atrocity. Argus at least got 3 zones. The "great and terrible city of Ny'alotha" ended up being two cramped, instances temples. Which brings me to...

Point 3. Blizzard doesn't care about the integrity of Warcraft's lore
It would have made sense if Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha / Black Empire had gotten their own expansions. They were, after all, very important places. Arguably more important than Pandaria which did end up being a fully-fledged continent.

Unfortunately Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about what makes sense and what doesn't. They listened to a bunch of bogus complaints that people were tired of fel green / underwater zones / tentacles and decided to quickly ax those stories despite them being fundamental, long-running parts of the Warcraft universe. Guess what? Shit storytelling and gameplay makes games unenjoyable, not color palettes. People still play Counterstrike decades later despite it having a relatively boring and same-y color palette.

And even if we assume that a same-y color palette has any bearing on the enjoyability of a game, who's to say Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha couldn't have been colorful and diverse? After all, Blizzard managed to take a barren black / white / grey dimension and turn it into something that resembles and acid trip and based an entire expansion around it. Too bad Argus didn't get the same treatment.

How can you get invested in the lore of a game when all the shots are called by investors and the "boohoo who cares about the lore, give me colorful enemies to slay" crowd rather than the writers? You can't. Speaking of the writers...

Point 4. The current writing team has no respect for the efforts of the OGs like Metzen
The current writing team just jumps on the latest twitter bandwagon and bases the entire story around it. WC3 Sylvanas, Jaina and Tyrande were strong women and Thrall embodied non-toxic masculinity. BfA Sylvanas, Jaina, Tyrande are just caricatures of their WC3 selves. And Anduin is non-toxic to the detriment of common sense.

Point 5. Blizzard just does whatever the fuck they want to
Blizzard wants Dracula's castle in WoW? Blizzard makes Dracula's castle in WoW. Which leads me to believe that the current team is completely unversed in Warcraft's lore if they have to do complete asspulls and retcon existing lore to create something interesting.

Or even worse, they DON'T care about WoW's lore. They just sit down and and come up with whatever generic fantasy trope they want to draw / write a story about on a given day and roll with it. Existing lore be damned. Speaking of genericity...

Point 6. The Shadowlands are completely generic
The Night Fae, the Necrolords, the Kyrians and the Venthyr are just caricatures of the Wild Gods, the Scourge, the Val'kyr and the San'layn respectively. But whereas the latter factions have rich backstories and were introduced into Warcraft in an organic, non-jarring way, the former factions are just asspulls that Blizzard came up with on the spot to fill the Shadowlands with variety. There's nothing new or interesting about the Shadowlands Covenants. They're just regurgitated and less interesting versions of what we already had for years.

Point 7. The Shadowlands are extremely childish
If you're a good man - you go to WoW heaven. If you're a bad man - you got to WoW hell. It's dogmatic, it's simplistic, it's browbeating. There's absolutely zero need to say "oh yeah Kael'thas was a bad man so he's getting tortured by BDSM vampires in hell for eternity". It reads like something a 5 year old child would write to "punish" a bad character he dislikes. Kael'thas already got his punishment and that was the legacy of the Sunstriders being completely destroyed and all but forgotten about. It's a way more fitting punishment for a character's misdeeds than saying "oh yeah he was a bad man so he's going to burn in hell."

But worst of all, Blizzard just can't or refuses to write satisfying story arcs anymore. Everything drags on for years and years and the gets wrapped up in the least satisfying way imaginable. Give us something fun, concise and enjoyable like the Blood Elves' redemption arc in TBC. Not more of Sylvanas' edgy adventures.

[DemonHunter18]

Point 1. Blizzard retconned a lot of lore to make them happen
This point has already been beaten to death by other posters but I feel like I have to go over it again. Retconning lore on a grand scale like they did with the Shadowlands cheapens everything that happened in the old continuity. Kil'jaeden is no longer a powerful, ingenious demon lord who created the Scourge. He's just some cheap hack who had his goons steal some artifacts from the Shadowlands and then borrowed Maldraxxus' magic. By extensions the Nathrezim are lame too now since they aren't the masters of necromantic magic and the creators of Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination that we thought they were. And this example is just the tip of the iceberg. I won't be buying WC3: Reforged now because replaying the campaign knowing that Kil'jaeden, Ner'zhul & co were just cheap hacks who borrowed or stole stuff that wasn't theirs won't feel right.

Other lore simply doesn't work in the new continuity. If all the souls have been going to the Maw since (at the very least) Teldrassil and no one escapes from the Maw, how did Delaryn and Sira get raised? It's just a glaring plothole now.

But worst of all, it's hard to care about the lore when Blizzard keeps making shit up on the spot and coming up with new "biggest threat ever" every other year or so and waylaying established characters. Why get invested in the lore of the Shadowlands when it's a given that the Jailer will end up being a mook for some other cosmic threat? Speaking of waylayed characters...

Point 2. Why do the Shadowlands deserve their own expansion in the first place?
People were hyped to go to Argus for at least a decade. It ended up being a couple of barren rocks floating in space and Sargeras' main base of operations was somehow less impressive than Scourge fortresses in Icecrown, who were supposed to be the Legion's proxies. Did you want to see the purple heels of Mac'Aree? Fuck you. Advanced Eredar technology? Fuck you. Grandiose Burning Legion strongholds? Fuck you.

Same goes for Nazjatar. The branch of Naga in the Outland somehow managed to have a more impressive presence in Zangarmarsh than in their own capital on Azeroth. At least the Coilfang facility had 3 dungeons and a raid. Nazjatar was just one small raid surrounded by a barren seafloor and... that's it.

Won't even get started on Ny'alotha. What they did there after a decade of build up is an atrocity. Argus at least got 3 zones. The "great and terrible city of Ny'alotha" ended up being two cramped, instances temples. Which brings me to...

Point 3. Blizzard doesn't care about the integrity of Warcraft's lore
It would have made sense if Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha / Black Empire had gotten their own expansions. They were, after all, very important places. Arguably more important than Pandaria which did end up being a fully-fledged continent.

Unfortunately Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about what makes sense and what doesn't. They listened to a bunch of bogus complaints that people were tired of fel green / underwater zones / tentacles and decided to quickly ax those stories despite them being fundamental, long-running parts of the Warcraft universe. Guess what? Shit storytelling and gameplay makes games unenjoyable, not color palettes. People still play Counterstrike decades later despite it having a relatively boring and same-y color palette.

And even if we assume that a same-y color palette has any bearing on the enjoyability of a game, who's to say Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha couldn't have been colorful and diverse? After all, Blizzard managed to take a barren black / white / grey dimension and turn it into something that resembles and acid trip and based an entire expansion around it. Too bad Argus didn't get the same treatment.

How can you get invested in the lore of a game when all the shots are called by investors and the "boohoo who cares about the lore, give me colorful enemies to slay" crowd rather than the writers? You can't. Speaking of the writers...

Point 4. The current writing team has no respect for the efforts of the OGs like Metzen
The current writing team just jumps on the latest twitter bandwagon and bases the entire story around it. WC3 Sylvanas, Jaina and Tyrande were strong women and Thrall embodied non-toxic masculinity. BfA Sylvanas, Jaina, Tyrande are just caricatures of their WC3 selves. And Anduin is non-toxic to the detriment of common sense.

Point 5. Blizzard just does whatever the fuck they want to
Blizzard wants Dracula's castle in WoW? Blizzard makes Dracula's castle in WoW. Which leads me to believe that the current team is completely unversed in Warcraft's lore if they have to do complete asspulls and retcon existing lore to create something interesting.

Or even worse, they DON'T care about WoW's lore. They just sit down and and come up with whatever generic fantasy trope they want to draw / write a story about on a given day and roll with it. Existing lore be damned. Speaking of genericity...

Point 6. The Shadowlands are completely generic
The Night Fae, the Necrolords, the Kyrians and the Venthyr are just caricatures of the Wild Gods, the Scourge, the Val'kyr and the San'layn respectively. But whereas the latter factions have rich backstories and were introduced into Warcraft in an organic, non-jarring way, the former factions are just asspulls that Blizzard came up with on the spot to fill the Shadowlands with variety. There's nothing new or interesting about the Shadowlands Covenants. They're just regurgitated and less interesting versions of what we already had for years.

Point 7. The Shadowlands are extremely childish
If you're a good man - you go to WoW heaven. If you're a bad man - you got to WoW hell. It's dogmatic, it's simplistic, it's browbeating. There's absolutely zero need to say "oh yeah Kael'thas was a bad man so he's getting tortured by BDSM vampires in hell for eternity". It reads like something a 5 year old child would write to "punish" a bad character he dislikes. Kael'thas already got his punishment and that was the legacy of the Sunstriders being completely destroyed and all but forgotten about. It's a way more fitting punishment for a character's misdeeds than saying "oh yeah he was a bad man so he's going to burn in hell."

But worst of all, Blizzard just can't or refuses to write satisfying story arcs anymore. Everything drags on for years and years and the gets wrapped up in the least satisfying way imaginable. Give us something fun, concise and enjoyable like the Blood Elves' redemption arc in TBC. Not more of Sylvanas' edgy adventures.

you forgot about the Chronicles.

most canon thing you can find.

no retconing anymore, fam.

[Yunru]

I wonder why they didnt go with Emerald Dream instead.

It would probaly be a much better option.

[FlasKamel]

I dont mind any of it. Sticking to lore from the 2000s in a 15+ year old game would be way too limiting. Now there's more to learn, and I'm excited about it.

[Varodoc]

The best point you made is this one:

Point 2. Why do the Shadowlands deserve their own expansion in the first place?
People were hyped to go to Argus for at least a decade. It ended up being a couple of barren rocks floating in space and Sargeras' main base of operations was somehow less impressive than Scourge fortresses in Icecrown, who were supposed to be the Legion's proxies. Did you want to see the purple heels of Mac'Aree? Fuck you. Advanced Eredar technology? Fuck you. Grandiose Burning Legion strongholds? Fuck you.

Same goes for Nazjatar. The branch of Naga in the Outland somehow managed to have a more impressive presence in Zangarmarsh than in their own capital on Azeroth. At least the Coilfang facility had 3 dungeons and a raid. Nazjatar was just one small raid surrounded by a barren seafloor and... that's it.

Won't even get started on Ny'alotha. What they did there after a decade of build up is an atrocity. Argus at least got 3 zones. The "great and terrible city of Ny'alotha" ended up being two cramped, instances temples. Which brings me to...

Point 3. Blizzard doesn't care about the integrity of Warcraft's lore
It would have made sense if Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha / Black Empire had gotten their own expansions. They were, after all, very important places. Arguably more important than Pandaria which did end up being a fully-fledged continent.

Unfortunately Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about what makes sense and what doesn't. They listened to a bunch of bogus complaints that people were tired of fel green / underwater zones / tentacles and decided to quickly ax those stories despite them being fundamental, long-running parts of the Warcraft universe. Guess what? Shit storytelling and gameplay makes games unenjoyable, not color palettes. People still play Counterstrike decades later despite it having a relatively boring and same-y color palette.

And even if we assume that a same-y color palette has any bearing on the enjoyability of a game, who's to say Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha couldn't have been colorful and diverse? After all, Blizzard managed to take a barren black / white / grey dimension and turn it into something that resembles and acid trip and based an entire expansion around it. Too bad Argus didn't get the same treatment.

How can you get invested in the lore of a game when all the shots are called by investors and the "boohoo who cares about the lore, give me colorful enemies to slay" crowd rather than the writers? You can't. Speaking of the writers...

When Kul Tiras (a single human nation) and Shadowlands (which was previously shown as nothing more than a bleak wasteland, a limitless void) became the center of new expansions, the creative team of Blizzard would have easily been able to give that same diversity to Argus, Nazjatar, and Ny'alotha. Especially since the argument "Well, there can't be a lot of diversity in Argus because it is the capital of the Legion" doesn't work, because we already have a full faction of independent broken hiding in the shadows and an entire zone that is untouched from the Legion's corruption.

Nazjatar was also very underwhelming. I would have rather played in the city around the palace than the empty wasteland around it.

[DemonHunter18]

The best point you made is this one:


When Kul Tiras (a single human nation) and Shadowlands (which was previously shown as nothing more than a bleak wasteland, a limitless void) became the center of new expansions, the creative team of Blizzard would have easily been able to give that same diversity to Argus, Nazjatar, and Ny'alotha. Especially since the argument "Well, there can't be a lot of diversity in Argus because it is the capital of the Legion" doesn't work, because we already have a full faction of independent broken hiding in the shadows and an entire zone that is untouched from the Legion's corruption.

that no one saw for +25,000 years.

either Archimonde and Kil'jaeden are the most idiotic demonlords ever and their Spectral Sight sucks as well with other millions of demons or Dranei's shroud ability is Godly.

[Ronin2k]

What have they retconned from Chronicles? Since that's the only canon that exists for lore now

[Varodoc]

that no one saw for +25,000 years.

either Archimonde and Kil'jaeden are the most idiotic demonlords ever and their Spectral Sight sucks as well with other millions of demons or Dranei's shroud ability is Godly.

The point is that Archimonde and Kil'jaeden never saw those broken nor bothered to send any troops to Mac'aree at all, so it would have been fairly easy to justify an expansion of us going to Argus and rallying the various free peoples of the world against the Legion. And again you also can't say "it would be boring because it is just one massive green planet" because, again, see Mac'aree. That's anything but a Fel-blighted wasteland. The only problem would be the Legion fatigue, because two expansions back to back of fighting demons would be boring, but that's no different from two expansions kickstarted by Sylvanas.

[Kyrian Warrior]

If you're a good man - you go to WoW heaven. If you're a bad man - you got to WoW hell. .

Not even true, and even if it was like that, that wouldn't make it childish. It is completely normal for people to feel that there needs to be justice and that good people should be rewarded and bad people should be punished. It is how we build our societies.

[DemonHunter18]

The point is that Archimonde and Kil'jaeden never saw those broken nor bothered to send any troops to Mac'aree at all, so it would have been fairly easy to justify an expansion of us going to Argus and rallying the various free peoples of the world against the Legion. And again you also can't say "it would be boring because it is just one massive green planet" because, again, see Mac'aree. That's anything but a Fel-blighted wasteland.

that's the problem though.

Argus, the biggest Legion stronghold which is basically unbreachable.

Illidan novel described Argus way better.

you would expect to have many demons.

how did they miss those scrubs is beyond me.

but yeah, Argus deserved to be it's own expansion.

my guess is when they were making Legion, they figured they cannot do multiple Legion based expansions because they would have to recycle a lot of bosses so they wanted to ended it in one patch

[Wilfire]

Not even true, and even if it was like that, that wouldn't make it childish. It is completely normal for people to feel that there needs to be justice and that good people should be rewarded and bad people should be punished. It is how we build our societies.

Heaven / Hell are an extremely simplistic justice system. Everyone gets their due - Heaven and Hell or not. Kil'jaeden's punishment for selling his people out was seeing his homeworld get overtaken by the Fel and ultimately have all of his plans fall apart. Arthas' punishment for destroying his kingdom was dying alone, surrounded by enemies and full of regrets. Tirion's reward for having faith in the Light and leading a righteous life is being remembered as one of Azeroth's greatest heroes, even many years after his death.

"If you're bad you burn in hell" is extremely infantile by comparison.

[Super Dickmann]

The simplistic distribution of souls is the one that gets me the most and that you articulated really well, @Wilfire. The second you introduce an implacable authority deciding where you'll go you fuck things up and you also open it up to out of story problems when that arbitration doesn't mesh. Like why Kael got to be a magic vampire despite trying to destroy the world, whereas pre-Cata Sylvanas went to super hell. It also means that when you know for a fact that being a good dude will get you a place in super heaven for all time, the only possible reason to deviate from this is to be a dick for its own sake.

You do lose roughly a million points for thinking the TBC blood elf story was anything but a prelude to what happened to the Forsaken in BFA. Pure, blandifying dross from start to finish that resulted in the Horde lugging around a misplaced Alliance race for over 12 years now, with all of the qualities that made the race what it is dispensed with except a red color scheme.

[Eazy]

Shadowlands shown us one thing... that Blizzard can, and will, change everything they want as long as it sells and keeps the game alive. Nothing is sacred and consistent anymore.

[DemonHunter18]

What have they retconned from Chronicles? Since that's the only canon that exists for lore now

you'll change your mind soon enough.

[Nork]

Point 1. Blizzard retconned a lot of lore to make them happen
This point has already been beaten to death by other posters but I feel like I have to go over it again. Retconning lore on a grand scale like they did with the Shadowlands cheapens everything that happened in the old continuity. Kil'jaeden is no longer a powerful, ingenious demon lord who created the Scourge. He's just some cheap hack who had his goons steal some artifacts from the Shadowlands and then borrowed Maldraxxus' magic. By extensions the Nathrezim are lame too now since they aren't the masters of necromantic magic and the creators of Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination that we thought they were. And this example is just the tip of the iceberg. I won't be buying WC3: Reforged now because replaying the campaign knowing that Kil'jaeden, Ner'zhul & co were just cheap hacks who borrowed or stole stuff that wasn't theirs won't feel right.

Other lore simply doesn't work in the new continuity. If all the souls have been going to the Maw since (at the very least) Teldrassil and no one escapes from the Maw, how did Delaryn and Sira get raised? It's just a glaring plothole now.

But worst of all, it's hard to care about the lore when Blizzard keeps making shit up on the spot and coming up with new "biggest threat ever" every other year or so and waylaying established characters. Why get invested in the lore of the Shadowlands when it's a given that the Jailer will end up being a mook for some other cosmic threat? Speaking of waylayed characters...

Point 2. Why do the Shadowlands deserve their own expansion in the first place?
People were hyped to go to Argus for at least a decade. It ended up being a couple of barren rocks floating in space and Sargeras' main base of operations was somehow less impressive than Scourge fortresses in Icecrown, who were supposed to be the Legion's proxies. Did you want to see the purple heels of Mac'Aree? Fuck you. Advanced Eredar technology? Fuck you. Grandiose Burning Legion strongholds? Fuck you.

Same goes for Nazjatar. The branch of Naga in the Outland somehow managed to have a more impressive presence in Zangarmarsh than in their own capital on Azeroth. At least the Coilfang facility had 3 dungeons and a raid. Nazjatar was just one small raid surrounded by a barren seafloor and... that's it.

Won't even get started on Ny'alotha. What they did there after a decade of build up is an atrocity. Argus at least got 3 zones. The "great and terrible city of Ny'alotha" ended up being two cramped, instances temples. Which brings me to...

Point 3. Blizzard doesn't care about the integrity of Warcraft's lore
It would have made sense if Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha / Black Empire had gotten their own expansions. They were, after all, very important places. Arguably more important than Pandaria which did end up being a fully-fledged continent.

Unfortunately Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about what makes sense and what doesn't. They listened to a bunch of bogus complaints that people were tired of fel green / underwater zones / tentacles and decided to quickly ax those stories despite them being fundamental, long-running parts of the Warcraft universe. Guess what? Shit storytelling and gameplay makes games unenjoyable, not color palettes. People still play Counterstrike decades later despite it having a relatively boring and same-y color palette.

And even if we assume that a same-y color palette has any bearing on the enjoyability of a game, who's to say Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha couldn't have been colorful and diverse? After all, Blizzard managed to take a barren black / white / grey dimension and turn it into something that resembles and acid trip and based an entire expansion around it. Too bad Argus didn't get the same treatment.

How can you get invested in the lore of a game when all the shots are called by investors and the "boohoo who cares about the lore, give me colorful enemies to slay" crowd rather than the writers? You can't. Speaking of the writers...

Point 4. The current writing team has no respect for the efforts of the OGs like Metzen
The current writing team just jumps on the latest twitter bandwagon and bases the entire story around it. WC3 Sylvanas, Jaina and Tyrande were strong women and Thrall embodied non-toxic masculinity. BfA Sylvanas, Jaina, Tyrande are just caricatures of their WC3 selves. And Anduin is non-toxic to the detriment of common sense.

Point 5. Blizzard just does whatever the fuck they want to
Blizzard wants Dracula's castle in WoW? Blizzard makes Dracula's castle in WoW. Which leads me to believe that the current team is completely unversed in Warcraft's lore if they have to do complete asspulls and retcon existing lore to create something interesting.

Or even worse, they DON'T care about WoW's lore. They just sit down and and come up with whatever generic fantasy trope they want to draw / write a story about on a given day and roll with it. Existing lore be damned. Speaking of genericity...

Point 6. The Shadowlands are completely generic
The Night Fae, the Necrolords, the Kyrians and the Venthyr are just caricatures of the Wild Gods, the Scourge, the Val'kyr and the San'layn respectively. But whereas the latter factions have rich backstories and were introduced into Warcraft in an organic, non-jarring way, the former factions are just asspulls that Blizzard came up with on the spot to fill the Shadowlands with variety. There's nothing new or interesting about the Shadowlands Covenants. They're just regurgitated and less interesting versions of what we already had for years.

Point 7. The Shadowlands are extremely childish
If you're a good man - you go to WoW heaven. If you're a bad man - you got to WoW hell. It's dogmatic, it's simplistic, it's browbeating. There's absolutely zero need to say "oh yeah Kael'thas was a bad man so he's getting tortured by BDSM vampires in hell for eternity". It reads like something a 5 year old child would write to "punish" a bad character he dislikes. Kael'thas already got his punishment and that was the legacy of the Sunstriders being completely destroyed and all but forgotten about. It's a way more fitting punishment for a character's misdeeds than saying "oh yeah he was a bad man so he's going to burn in hell."

But worst of all, Blizzard just can't or refuses to write satisfying story arcs anymore. Everything drags on for years and years and the gets wrapped up in the least satisfying way imaginable. Give us something fun, concise and enjoyable like the Blood Elves' redemption arc in TBC. Not more of Sylvanas' edgy adventures.

They didn't explain where the helm of domination comes from, or its meaning. When did they talk about KJ? You're saying things they didn't say just to justify your point of view. At least don't lie.

[Wangming]

I just realized I don't care about the story. Like what happens to hell. I mean we obviously kill Sylvanas, kill the Jailer, and place somebody there as the new jailer. Calling it now. Sure, the aesthetics of Il Mheg and the Vampire soon will be nice-ish, but the biggest thing in Shadowlands is that leveling till the new expansion won't suck as much as it did before.

I care about the chance to skip over the decade old continents and jump straight to Pandaria and earn a skill every level up. That sounds good. The rest? Why should I fucking bother. The story will be bad, covenants will be neutered in 10.0 and what we do in 9.0 will have zero effect on Azeroth.

- - - Updated - - -

They didn't explain where the helm of domination comes from, or its meaning. When did they talk about KJ? You're saying things they didn't say just to justify your point of view. At least don't lie.

Yes they did. It was made at a forge here in the Shadowlands. Same as Frostmourne.

[Nork]

I just realized I don't care about the story. Like what happens to hell. I mean we obviously kill Sylvanas, kill the Jailer, and place somebody there as the new jailer. Calling it now. Sure, the aesthetics of Il Mheg and the Vampire soon will be nice-ish, but the biggest thing in Shadowlands is that leveling till the new expansion won't suck as much as it did before.

I care about the chance to skip over the decade old continents and jump straight to Pandaria and earn a skill every level up. That sounds good. The rest? Why should I fucking bother. The story will be bad, covenants will be neutered in 10.0 and what we do in 9.0 will have zero effect on Azeroth.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes they did. It was made at a forge here in the Shadowlands. Same as Frostmourne.

Link the source then. Otherwise it's a lie.

[Bigdoser]

I just realized I don't care about the story. Like what happens to hell. I mean we obviously kill Sylvanas, kill the Jailer, and place somebody there as the new jailer. Calling it now. Sure, the aesthetics of Il Mheg and the Vampire soon will be nice-ish, but the biggest thing in Shadowlands is that leveling till the new expansion won't suck as much as it did before.

I care about the chance to skip over the decade old continents and jump straight to Pandaria and earn a skill every level up. That sounds good. The rest? Why should I fucking bother. The story will be bad, covenants will be neutered in 10.0 and what we do in 9.0 will have zero effect on Azeroth.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes they did. It was made at a forge here in the Shadowlands. Same as Frostmourne.

Man looking at your avatar just makes me sad since it's possible to actually write an interesting, consistent and "grey" antagonist in an MMO.

Link the source then. Otherwise it's a lie.

Blizzard said the helm and frostmourne come from the shadowlands.

[Voidwielder]

Shadowlands shown us one thing... that Blizzard can, and will, change everything they want as long as it sells and keeps the game alive. Nothing is sacred and consistent anymore.

Eh, this was unexplored territory. Literally and figuratively. So they could do whatever they wanted and make it work.

[Kyrian Warrior]

Heaven / Hell are an extremely simplistic justice system. Everyone gets their due - Heaven and Hell or not. Kil'jaeden's punishment for selling his people out was seeing his homeworld get overtaken by the Fel and ultimately have all of his plans fall apart. Arthas' punishment for destroying his kingdom was dying alone, surrounded by enemies and full of regrets. Tirion's reward for having faith in the Light and leading a righteous life is being remembered as one of Azeroth's greatest heroes, even many years after his death.

"If you're bad you burn in hell" is extremely infantile by comparison.

Knowing that a bad person will burn in hell forever seems more just and satisfying to me than knowing that he merely "saw his plans fall apart".

That doesn't even have anything to do with whether he is evil or not, as a good guy can also "see his plans fall apart". And a bad guy can also see his plans come to fruition. even in death, as you can see with Jakra'zet at the end of the Vol'dun questline, where he sacrifices himself to set Mythrax free. Where is the justice here?

With the Shadowlands, he would normally be sent before the Arbiter, and he will decide whether to put him into the Maw, when he is irredeemably evil, into Revendreth if he was evil but can be redeemed, and into any other place depending on where he could be most useful to the denizens of the Shadowlands. That's not even strictly speaking heaven and hell, it's much more nuanced than that, but it's still a more just way of dealing with things than what you have in mind.