Who Should have Won LK VS Sylvanas

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Citation needed, really.

Bolvar made this huge sacrifice right, to spend his immortal life keeping the scourge at bay.

Welp, Sylvanas just freed him. Gave him his life back. Defeated the scourge once and for all. Defeated the Lich King once and for all.


That makes her a bigger hero than Tirion Fordring and Bolvar combined.

The scourge are rampaging cross the land because of what she did there is literally zero good in it.

She’s the bad guy.

[bullseyed]

c) the real problem is that we had no in-game illustration of Sylvanas gaining so much power so players still look at her as the person who lost at Undercity and fled, not someone who can take on the entire army of undead at ICC and then easily break the Lich King.

Except she didn't... the plan was to fall back and blight the Alliance leaders.

Just like how the only reason the Lich King was ever defeated to begin with was because some undead blighted him (which she may or may not have been directly responsible for).

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The scourge are rampaging cross the land because of what she did there is literally zero good in it.

Source?

Also, this would prevent us from going into the shadowlands, so I guess you're claiming 9.0 isn't happening?

[Black Goat]

my friend, i hate to break it to you... but you are a fan as well

I'm approaching this rationally, as my other post should clearly indicate.

You're just going around calling people dumb because their opinion doesn't agree with yours and your fake "majority".

We're both fans, but we're much different.

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Citation needed, really.

Bolvar made this huge sacrifice right, to spend his immortal life keeping the scourge at bay.

Welp, Sylvanas just freed him. Gave him his life back. Defeated the scourge once and for all. Defeated the Lich King once and for all.


That makes her a bigger hero than Tirion Fordring and Bolvar combined.

Well, her intentions are murky at best. Sylvanas has always been seen to have a personal interest in things she does. She may have accomplished all of that, but we don't know why she's doing it. If you're buying into the rumor that she's trying to do the whole world a favor... well, I think it's too early for putting my full faith into that.

[Sesto]

I'm approaching this rationally, as my other post should clearly indicated.

You're just going around calling people dumb.

We're both fans, but we're much different.

i said their opinion was dumb. you called me "not always the brightest and rational" which is actually a direct insult. i think you are the toxic fan here, acting like your opinion matters more than the opinion of the fanbase as a whole.

try to be nicer when you post please, this is a friendly community

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Source?

Also, this would prevent us from going into the shadowlands, so I guess you're claiming 9.0 isn't happening?

I never get how people can be so confident while also being comply clueless.

Pre-patch - Scourge are marauding across Azeroth. Scourge invasion 2.0.
Azeroth's heroes make for Icecrown, trying to attack the source of this evil.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...ft-What-s-Next

[Black Goat]

i said their opinion was dumb. you called me "not always the brightest and rational" which is actually a direct insult. i think you are the toxic fan here, acting like your opinion matters more than the opinion of the fanbase as a whole.

try to be nicer when you post please, this is a friendly community

My opinion doesn't matter. Facts do. And yes, calling someone's opinion dumb is a direct insult to that individual. Apparently you can't take your own medicine. Please be nicer when discussing subjective matters.

Sylvanas rightfully won. Bolvar is the weaker of the two. Your perception that the entire fan base is upset is both incorrect and unfounded. Have you polled every World of Warcraft fan? No. You've probably talked to like a dozen people.

Please refrain from pretending you have the knowledge of what the "fanbase as a whole" thinks of the battle's outcome. You don't. Full stop.

[Sesto]

My opinion doesn't matter. Facts do. And yes, calling someone's opinion dumb is a direct insult. Apparently you can't take your own medicine.

Sylvanas rightfully won. Bolvar is the weaker of the two. Your perception that the entire fan base is upset is both incorrect and unfounded. Have you polled every World of Warcraft fan? No. You've probably talked to like a dozen people.

as I said, I don't care about bolvar vs sylvanas. i care about the cinematic as a whole.
we obviously don't have an easy metric to gauge opinion of a cinematic, but one way to do so is to a. check fan responses online or b. check like/dislike ratio.
shadowlands is heavily disliked on youtube on WoW's official channel, and posts on major forums (like reddit) have many posts expressing disappointing regarding the cinematic, much more so than other cinematic before it

calling it the best cinematic ever is just wrong. it's one of the worst cinematic from the perspective of the wow fanbase as a whole

[bullseyed]

Then she should just have trounced him, not hopped around the arena for a minute for basically no reason. It didn't feel like she was actually stronger, it felt more like Bolvar randomly forgot how to fight and Sylvanas then won because the plot demands it.

She wasn't trying to kill him, she was putting him into a trap so she could restrain him.

And the fact that Bolvar could tap into LK powers to conjure the fog showed he had turned, anyway. Along with the eye changing thing, it is possible he isn't even Bolvar anymore. The LK might have downloaded into his body.

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My opinion doesn't matter. Facts do. And yes, calling someone's opinion dumb is a direct insult to that individual. Apparently you can't take your own medicine. Please be nicer when discussing subjective matters.

Sylvanas rightfully won. Bolvar is the weaker of the two. Your perception that the entire fan base is upset is both incorrect and unfounded. Have you polled every World of Warcraft fan? No. You've probably talked to like a dozen people.

Please refrain from pretending you have the knowledge of what the "fanbase as a whole" thinks of the battle's outcome. You don't. Full stop.

I've got screenshots from a mod posting here saying it is OK and within the site rules to call people's ideas "retarded" in case you need it. Surprising in 2019.

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I never get how people can be so confident while also being comply clueless.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...ft-What-s-Next

Expansion
Pre-patch - Scourge are marauding across Azeroth. Scourge invasion 2.0.
Azeroth's heroes (Sylvanas) make for Icecrown, trying to attack the source of this evil.(Bolvar)
Bolvar isn't dead, just defeated. He is a key figure in this fight. He has one foot in each realm and understands them both.



So in the prepatch Bolvar is going to lead an assault against Azeroth, and Sylvanas is going to stop him to save the planet.

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Well, her intentions are murky at best. Sylvanas has always been seen to have a personal interest in things she does. She may have accomplished all of that, but we don't know why she's doing it. If you're buying into the rumor that she's trying to do the whole world a favor... well, I think it's too early for putting my full faith into that.

Someone else was kind enough to link a Blizzcon article that says in pre-patch Bolvar is going to command the scourge to attack Azeroth so he can conquer the world and Sylvanas goes up there to defeat him and stop the invasion.

That makes a lot of sense and fits nicely with the previous Sylvanas lore. She hated that Bolvar had become the Lich King and she knew it was only a matter of time before he invaded. That was literally the lore/story thing that started her whole plan. That we hadn't really defeated the Lich King and we had to find a way to do so.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Expansion
Pre-patch - Scourge are marauding across Azeroth. Scourge invasion 2.0.
Azeroth's heroes make for Icecrown, trying to attack the source of this evil.
Bolvar isn't dead, just defeated. He is a key figure in this fight. He has one foot in each realm and understands them both.



So in the prepatch Bolvar is going to lead an assault against Azeroth, and Sylvanas is going to stop him to save the planet.

we already know that's not the case as the cinematic shows the scourge just sitting around not even attacking sylvanas as she passes.

[bullseyed]

Theres one big problem with that fight and its a blatantly obvious one.

Sylvanas should have lost on account the crown of domination literally is designed to control undead, TLK should have legit just MCed her and the fight would be over, its pretty odd for her to be standing unscathed by a weapon capable of literally breaking her will.

If you've literally never played WoW before, that might make sense.

But it would also mean the Forsaken never existed, so the Lich King never got blighted, and we lost in WotLK and are all scourge.

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we already know that's not the case as the cinematic shows the scourge just sitting around not even attacking sylvanas as she passes.

Right, just like how in Game of Thrones we know Jon Snow was working with the Night King because at one point the zombies stood in a circle around him and his friends, waiting to attack.

Or, you know, anyone who has ever watched or read any work of fantasy (or even action movies, for that matter) ever knows, the low level thug guys stand around in a circle while the hero and bad guy fight.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Right, just like how in Game of Thrones we know Jon Snow was working with the Night King because at one point the zombies stood in a circle around him and his friends, waiting to attack.

Or, you know, anyone who has ever watched or read any work of fantasy (or even action movies, for that matter) ever knows, the low level thug guys stand around in a circle while the hero and bad guy fight.

you can't truly think undead just standing around doing nothing and then letting her pass is them marauding across the land, you must be trolling.

[bullseyed]

As much as I dislike Sylvanas, the right character won. They're focusing on building her up to be a force to be reckoned with. The Lich King had his moment in the sun, Bolvar without Frostmourne was never meant to re-introduce a conflict with The Lich King, they made that clear now.

Kind of.

We do know that Bolvar waited until we were weak from the fight with N'zoth and then commanded the scourge to attack so he could conquer Azeroth.

And we know Sylvanas had predicted that would happen years ago and was ready to stop him to save the world.

[Exhuman]

Its easy to me to kill a DK in PvP

So I guess their master is weak as them as well.

Sylvanas by a landslide

[MrLachyG]

i said their opinion was dumb. you called me "not always the brightest and rational" which is actually a direct insult. i think you are the toxic fan here, acting like your opinion matters more than the opinion of the fanbase as a whole.

try to be nicer when you post please, this is a friendly community

have you looked at the poll? Sylvanas is winning.

[bullseyed]

I get the intent behind it, but I think it was a mistake to make the first time we see Lich King Bolvar throw down he gets spanked quite so badly. It greatly diminished the mystique around his character and I don't feel that Sylvanas really got anything more from it.

The mystique... of a burn victim... who sits in a chair, telling mindless undead to sit, stay and roll over?

I guess I've really heard everything now. Maybe next the mystique of Tiny Tim to see how far he can hobble on his crutches!

[Black Goat]

as I said, I don't care about bolvar vs sylvanas. i care about the cinematic as a whole.
we obviously don't have an easy metric to gauge opinion of a cinematic, but one way to do so is to a. check fan responses online or b. check like/dislike ratio.
shadowlands is heavily disliked on youtube on WoW's official channel, and posts on major forums (like reddit) have many posts expressing disappointing regarding the cinematic, much more so than other cinematic before it

calling it the best cinematic ever is just wrong. it's one of the worst cinematic from the perspective of the wow fanbase as a whole

That is not what this thread is about.

Stay on-topic.

[jellmoo]

The mystique... of a burn victim... who sits in a chair, telling mindless undead to sit, stay and roll over?

I guess I've really heard everything now. Maybe next the mystique of Tiny Tim to see how far he can hobble on his crutches!

The mystique of a great Paladin that was once regent of Stormwind who fell in battle, and then took on the mantle of one of the greatest villains in the world because it had to be done for the greater good.

What could this new Lich King do? Was he a villain or a hero? What kind of power does this man doused in dragon's fire and wearing the helm of domination possess?

Turns out we shouldn't have ever wondered, because he was immediately spanked like a 3 year old amputee with downs in his first fight.

[Kallor]

To me, it makes little sense that she's able to defeat him in his own home - his place of power. Surely the instant she was nearby, he saw her coming - and should've summoned all his most powerful minions and allies to defend himself?

I could've bought it if she did it by stealth, but just casually walking in and defeating everything offscreen? Come on.

[Sesto]

That is not what this thread is about.

Stay on-topic.

learn to read then my friend. i was quoting someone else originally, you were the one who but into our conversation. your post is even more off topic than mine

[Jazzhands]

Kind of.

We do know that Bolvar waited until we were weak from the fight with N'zoth and then commanded the scourge to attack so he could conquer Azeroth.

And we know Sylvanas had predicted that would happen years ago and was ready to stop him to save the world.

I can't tell if this is meant to be sarcasm. Bolvar doesn't command the scourge to attack us, he literally can't because the helm is broken, the scourge attack us because there's no one to command them now.