Migrants easily cut through Trump's wall with a $100 saw

[Wyrt]

Well probably because it was Trump's major slogan during his campaign and going ahead with that would've been yet another major defeat for them.
...which they did anyway in the end.

I always found it interesting that for all their supposed care for the problem of illegal immigration they cared far, far more about obstructing Trump and boycotting the system until Trump literally had to shut down the government to get them in line.

So, they should have given in and let Trump build his stupid wall that can be sawed through with a $100 saw instead of trying to dedicate that money to more high tech border security simply because Trump promised his stupid wall?

And no, Democrats never agreed on the Wall. Trump circumvented congress by declaring a national emergency.

[Malaky]

So, they should have given in and let Trump build his stupid wall that can be sawed through with a $100 saw instead of trying to dedicate that money to more high tech border security simply because Trump promised his stupid wall?

And no, Democrats never agreed on the Wall. Trump circumvented congress by declaring a national emergency.

Democrats these days wouldn't agree with Trump even if he declared oxygen is important for breathing, so not exactly surprised there.
Their derangement runs deep.

And again, the wall isn't meant to be impregnable.
Like in that movie The Purge: "if someone really wants to they'll find a way through".
The point is in dissuading and blocking the masses, and on that aspect the wall works fine.

Thus admitting it was never about actually addressing the intended problem.

Lel, so desperate for validation that you're making stuff up on the spot now?

[Wyrt]

Democrats these days wouldn't agree with Trump even if he declared oxygen is important for breathing, so not exactly surprised there.
Their derangement runs deep.

And again, the wall isn't meant to be impregnable.
Like in that movie The Purge: "if someone really wants to they'll find a way through".
The point is in dissuading and blocking the masses, and on that aspect the wall works fine.

The wall doesn't work though. People can just saw through it. This is what people have been saying since the first time Trump mentioned the wall.

[Whiskyjack]

The wall doesn't work though. People can just saw through it. This is what people have been saying since the first time Trump mentioned the wall.

Right it needs to be manned and honestly would be a useful training tool and way to deploy the army within the country productively.

I think it is past time that the states took securing its border seriously. If not they may as well abandon the working poor in favor of effectly slave labor from illegal immigrants. Making life harder for human traffickers and drug dealers is just a bonus.

[cubby]

Right it needs to be manned and honestly would be a useful training tool and way to deploy the army within the country productively.

I think it is past time that the states took securing its border seriously. If not they may as well abandon the working poor in favor of effectly slave labor from illegal immigrants. Making life harder for human traffickers and drug dealers is just a bonus.

We don't have a border security problem. Trump's own people confirmed this a few years ago. That's why any talk of "the wall" has been such a joke. Every legitimate agency and NGO has already told us it won't help, doesn't address the real issues of immigration, can't be maintained, and is a colossal waste of money.

Why do you think even the GOP controlled Senate won't attach any moneys to help build it? They won't even try.

[Edge-]

What a bizarre thread. Nobody expected the wall to be impregnable, not even Trump.

What're you on about?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...rable-n1056161

Someone needs to tell this to Trump.

During the tour, Trump praised the wall’s features, encouraging TV cameras to get an up-close picture of the slats, which officials said were constructed out of steel and concrete. “Virtually impenetrable,” Trump described them. Trump also claimed that three other countries were currently studying the U.S. border wall but declined to name them.

And before you say, "But he said virtually!"

1. He always speaks like this to give himself and easy out.

2. This isn't the only debunked claim from him.

“This is the one that was hardest to climb,” Trump said. “This wall can’t be climbed.”

It's already been climbed. A lot.

He's just a fucking idiot and a liar.

[Endus]

Lol, what kind of distorted logic is this?

"So you're against illegal immigration?"
"Yup"
"Well okay, then let's make all illegal immigrants legal and any job whatsoever will guarantee stay"
"Sounds ridiculous, that would only incentivize more illegal immigration and hoax job occupations to abuse this system"
"See? you're not actually against illegal immigration since you refuse to make it legal! Gotcha!"

What the hell?

It couldn't "incentivize more illegal immigration", because the proposal was to legalize that immigration. It might "incentivize more legal immigration", by the new standards proposed, sure.

This is exactly what I meant; you have another reason for opposing immigration. It isn't the legality of it. So when presented with an argument that says "just legalize it all", you find other reasons to maintain your opposition, because you're not being honest about your real objection to immigration.

That was the entire point. That you don't actually care about whether it's illegal or not. And you just provided a perfect example, yourself, of exactly what I suggested would happen.

When presented with a position of "what if we just legalize all immigration", your response was "but then we'll have more illegal immigration". That is the irrational response, here.

[kasuke06]

When "the wall" was in its planning and prototype phase, the engineers were testing out various tools that could breach the wall. They succeeded with one of these saws, the DHS reported it to the white house, and Trump gave the prototype the thumbs up anyway.

https://inhomelandsecurity.com/borde...-breached-saw/

Can't wait to dump billions on a wall that will be full of holes every tenth of a mile within a month.

In before "We should arm the wall with auto turrets that shoot anyone that gets close!" people.

What? tiger traps are much more cost effective.

[jeezusisacasual]

Democrats these days wouldn't agree with Trump even if he declared oxygen is important for breathing, so not exactly surprised there.
Their derangement runs deep.

And again, the wall isn't meant to be impregnable.
Like in that movie The Purge: "if someone really wants to they'll find a way through".
The point is in dissuading and blocking the masses, and on that aspect the wall works fine.



Lel, so desperate for validation that you're making stuff up on the spot now?

They took a page out of McConnells book and for that i do not blame them. Make governing as hard as possible with as much hiccups and road blocks while deflecting blame towards the administration, the Republican establishment has no one to blame but themselves and they had complete control of the government for 2 years if this wall was that important it would have been started.

[Kaleredar]

When did I admit a wall will not work?
Pretty sure I repeatedly said the opposite.

Seems obvious that it doesn't work if it can be beaten by an off-the-shelf power tool.

Also pretty sure republicans didn't say the wall would "solve" the problem of illegal immigration altogether.

Well then what have they said? I've heard nothing from them about immigration reform. It's always "first let us build the wall, then when the illegal immigrants stop coming in we'll talk about next steps."

And as I've said... the wall doesn't stop illegal immigrants, so obviously they'll never take those "next steps." Meaning they have no actual desire for immigration reform.

You might want to stick to honesty when dealing with these subjects, misdirection and falsehoods will do you no good?

Misdirection and falsehood is pretending that 3% of the US population who contribute no noticeable influence to its crime statistics are somehow responsible for 99% of the US' problems.

And speaking of legislation, didn't Trump repeatedly try bringing the Dems to the table to solve the issue with laws and legislation... with them doing nothing but obstructing, boycotting or otherwise never sitting down that table?

Why give Trump the time of day on the matter? It's obvious that he has no intent on solving it, seeing as he's been bandying about the "wall" as a solution that we've established is thoroughly foolish.

Nor have I heard nor seen anything from Trump or his administration that the solution would be anything approaching... adequate... or well thought-out... or... in the form of coherent sentences.

Remember, this is the man that they have to give bullet points to on national issues to or else he loses interest and begins to ramble. If you think his stratagem on immigration (besides profiting from it on his resort properties. Did you not know that?) goes beyond barking "build the wall," then I've got a bridge to sell you.

Well probably because it was Trump's major slogan during his campaign and going ahead with that would've been yet another major defeat for them.

Why should the Democrats give a fuck what Trump promised during his campaign? Especially when what he promised is the aforementioned combination of expensive, ineffective and stupid?

...which they did anyway in the end.

I always found it interesting that for all their supposed care for the problem of illegal immigration they cared far, far more about obstructing Trump and boycotting the system until Trump literally had to shut down the government to get them in line.

Trump didn't get them in line by shutting down the government. Trump just took the money from the military instead.

Democrats these days wouldn't agree with Trump even if he declared oxygen is important for breathing, so not exactly surprised there.
Their derangement runs deep.

While it's worth noting that you completely dodged his question, Trump isn't doing that. He wont even stick to declaring truthisms.

People aren't judging Trump on things they imagine he said or might say, like you are. They're judging him on what he's actually said and done.

But hell, if I'm to indulge in your little nonsense what ifs... If Trump declared oxygen was important, it'd be couched in how nobody loves Oxygen (or "air" as he calls it) more than him, how democrats want to give your oxygen to illegal immigrants, and how nobody has done more for oxygen than Trump has.

And before you say, "But he said virtually!"

Well I'm sure he meant to say "It's virtually impenetrable... except by the common tools one would try and use to penetrate it!"

That's what Malaky would likely suggest, at least. And see nothing wrong with the irony.

[Malaky]

The wall doesn't work though. People can just saw through it.

No way, again?

- - - Updated - - -

And before you say, "But he said virtually!"

I will say that. I will also say that you guy's number 1° problem is taking everything he says literally and super seriously.

[cubby]

Democrats these days wouldn't agree with Trump even if he declared oxygen is important for breathing, so not exactly surprised there.
Their derangement runs deep.

The GOP has given up all hold on facts and reality. Your perception of the Democrats is part of that separation from reality. At this point Trump has violated so many laws they are almost impossible to keep track. Your view that Democrats disagree with Trump on "everything" is only evidence that you chug the kool-aid, eyes closed.

[Malaky]

It couldn't "incentivize more illegal immigration", because the proposal was to legalize that immigration. It might "incentivize more legal immigration", by the new standards proposed, sure.

This is exactly what I meant; you have another reason for opposing immigration. It isn't the legality of it. So when presented with an argument that says "just legalize it all", you find other reasons to maintain your opposition, because you're not being honest about your real objection to immigration.

I'm actually laughing my ass off here.
You actually have no idea why people are against illegal immigration. You think it's just because of the bad sounding name, so by some rabid logic you think the problem will be solved if we "just take the illegal tag away".

And when sane people notice the negative impact it carries hasn't changed one bit and thus remain against it, you think you made some groundbreaking discovery.

"Murder? Just make it legal."
"Rape? Just make it legal."
"Robbery? Just make it legal."

".....what do you mean you're still against that? AHA! So you're not being honest about your real objections to murder, rape and robbery!"

Welcome to planet Earth, Endus.
We don't oppose those things because they're illegal, we oppose them because they're harmful and thus have been made illegal.

[Elegiac]

You actually have no idea why people are against illegal immigration. You think it's just because of the bad sounding name

No, we actually think it's because of racism/nativism and that's the point we are hammering at by showing that the 'logical' reasons for it are just euphemisms to make it less blatant. See: the Southern Strategy.

[Masark]

And when sane people notice the negative impact it carries hasn't changed one bit and thus remain against it

Yes yes, we all know exactly what your claimed "negative impact" actually is.

[Endus]

I'm actually laughing my ass off here.
You actually have no idea why people are against illegal immigration. You think it's just because of the bad sounding name, so by your rabid logic you think the problem will be solved if we "just remove the illegal bad sounding tag".

No, I'm making the point that it isn't about the "illegal" part of the term.

It's about the "immigration" part of the term.

It's rank nativism/racism. That's the point.

And when sane people notice the negative impact it carries hasn't changed one bit and thus remain against it, you think you made some groundbreaking discovery.

"Murder? Just make it legal."
"Rape? Just make it legal."
"Robbery? Just make it legal."

".....what do you mean you're still against that? AHA! So you're not being honest about your real objections to murder, rape and robbery!"

More accurately, it's like opposing marijuana legalization because it's illegal.

Rather than for any objectively determinable real reason. Which exist for the three cases you picked. People don't oppose murder, rape, and robbery because they're illegal, but because of identifiable harm to others.

That doesn't exist for illegal immigration.

Welcome to planet Earth, Endus.
We don't oppose those things because they're illegal, we oppose them because they're harmful and thus have been made illegal.

Which doesn't apply to the issue of illegal immigration, since the only "harm" you ever choose to talk about is either factually incorrect, or is rooted solely in its illegality.

[Malaky]

People don't oppose murder, rape, and robbery because they're illegal, but because of identifiable harm to others.
That doesn't exist for illegal immigration.

And so the delusion is laid bare.

[Endus]

And so the delusion is laid bare.

My refusal to accept your utterly baseless and indeterminate claims of "harm" caused by immigration is not, in any respect, a "delusion".

You made the claim. Go on. Cite your sources. Be clear about what "harm" it is you mean.

[Kaleredar]

I will say that. I will also say that you guy's number 1° problem is taking everything he says literally and super seriously.

We expect the president of the United state's words to carry weight.

That you do not says more about you than anyone else.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm actually laughing my ass off here.
You actually have no idea why people are against illegal immigration. You think it's just because of the bad sounding name, so by some rabid logic you think the problem will be solved if we "just take the illegal tag away".

And when sane people notice the negative impact it carries hasn't changed one bit and thus remain against it, you think you made some groundbreaking discovery.

"Murder? Just make it legal."
"Rape? Just make it legal."
"Robbery? Just make it legal."

".....what do you mean you're still against that? AHA! So you're not being honest about your real objections to murder, rape and robbery!"

Welcome to planet Earth, Endus.
We don't oppose those things because they're illegal, we oppose them because they're harmful and thus have been made illegal.

So you're saying "immigration" is harmful.

Straight up, that's what you just said.

[Whiskyjack]

We don't have a border security problem. Trump's own people confirmed this a few years ago. That's why any talk of "the wall" has been such a joke. Every legitimate agency and NGO has already told us it won't help, doesn't address the real issues of immigration, can't be maintained, and is a colossal waste of money.

Why do you think even the GOP controlled Senate won't attach any moneys to help build it? They won't even try.

I think it is kinda clear we do... though I think were we differ is I accept there isn't a 100% percent effective solution to the problem. That doesn't mean I believe that we should just abandon any attempt at making it better.

- - - Updated - - -

My refusal to accept your utterly baseless and indeterminate claims of "harm" caused by immigration is not, in any respect, a "delusion".

You made the claim. Go on. Cite your sources. Be clear about what "harm" it is you mean.

Not ever issue needs a thesis to explain it...

Assuming the best case scenario and every immigrat seeks employment and finds it that is still utterly crippling to the working class.

If there is a excess of labor especially unskilled labor the workers are no longer able to force companies to compete for their labor driving wages lower and lower. This has the additional nasty effect of increasing the amount of consumers in the market lowering the buying power of individuals when it comes to necessities.

Even in the best case scenario there are drawbacks to the current system for the current population. Only those wealthy enough to own businesses that can employ the new cheap labor benefit from it.