Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Elegiac]

So this tidbit is super relevant -
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...39d_story.html

This corroborates something previous witnesses have mentioned as well; certain elements in the administration have been pushing the "DNC had a server in Ukraine" conspiracy theory for years and it's been actively impeding the state department's ability to do its job.

[Kaleredar]

I just love the irony of him screaming about Trump not getting due process while at the same time screaming "lock them up" about Clinton and Biden.

It's all about controlling the narrative to paint a character.

"Trump is guiltless and faultless, and hated by the liberals for his success!"

"Hillary and the Bidens are seedy and suspicious! It's only by the efforts of the deep state that try and persecute Trump that they've evaded justice!"


It has nothing to do with equally applying scrutiny. It has everything to do with painting a political party (or in this case, a single person, Trump) as being the lathe of heaven.

And, though they've all fled this thread, as the Trumpkin might belch out "Well aren't YOU doing the same thing by saying TRUMP is guilty but KILLARY AND BIDEN are INNOCENT? HYPOCRITE!"

No. It's not the same. Because Biden and Hillary were never found to have committed any legal wrongdoing by actual government inquiries on the matter. Trump, on the other hand, has new evidence coming up against him every single day, and has moved in every way, shape and form to obstruct any actual inquiry. He was never exonerated on the subject of the Mueller report, and I do not find the republican's attempts at deflection or "he was too stupid to do it" as exonerating him from having engaged in Bribery with Ukraine.

[Skroe]

So here we are at the dawn of the Great Battle. I think it is not an exaggeration to say that the foundation for the future history of America will be written in these next few weeks and months. Will democracy survive in America? Or will our fragile Democracy tip into authoritarianism as others have? The chapter in which that will begin to unfold opens today.

It's worth taking stock of how we got here, what we want and why this is happening.

Donald Trump never should have been President. He became President because of a confluence of factors: unresolved after effects of the financial crisis / great recession, generational turn over, an unpopular Democratic candidate, a talent drought in the Republican Party, the rise of right wing media, an national media that thought he was a lark and good for ratings, the loss of two wars in 15 years, but most of all an asymmetric attack on the United States by Russia.

We are here because of an accident of history that saw a racist, authoritarian hugging, un-American demagogue installed to the most powerful office of the most powerful country in the history of the world. The champion of democracy helmed by a would-be autocrat whose very presence defiles our national values.

We are also here because longer term, America never recovered from the national trauma of Watergate. Instead it found decades excusing wrong doing and papering over malfeasance. On the issue of sexual harassment/assault, rectifying that has found an avenue in the Me Too movement. But it goes far deeper than that. We have become a deeply corrupt country that is terrified of consequences - both imposing and feeling them. Corruption is everywhere. In government. In business. In our persona lives. We have gone from a deeply patriotic people that truly lived "country first", to one that has seen an utter collapse in civic nationalism.

Trump is where we were always going to end up. For not forcing Reagan's resignation after Iran Contra. For not demanding Clinton's head for an improper relationship with a subordinate. For not charging Bush Administration figures with war crimes. For utilizing the post-9/11 Authorization for Use of Military Force for countless campaigns rather than demand politicians sign their name to new authorizations and own it. Donald Trump is the cancer America earned for being weak on the rules it set for itself.

But we can recover. We can stand up as a nation again and restore our honor and integrity. To become worthy custodians of the grandest of inheritances that our forebears gifted to us.

It starts today, with the Impeachment of Donald Trump. He abused his presidential powers for personal advantage. For that, he cannot be President anymore.

All of this - a $4.5 trillion budget, a globe spanning trade system, a world-leading armed forces, an expansive federal reach - it exists to improve the lives of ordinary Americans and keep the peace. That's it. The preamble of the Declaration of Independence made manifest.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Our vast government and all the powers we the people bestow it exists to bring that timeless statement about inalienable human rights into a tangible reality.

What Donald Trump did in Ukraine - bribery, extortion, obstruction of justice, violating the will of Congress, ignoring US law, among other things - was not remotely in the national interest. Purely his interest. We do not empower Presidents - our servant-in-chief and not our master - to enhance himself. Only to serve us. And he did not serve us. He used the power we gave him for his own ends.

And for that, he cannot be President anymore.

I'm under few illusions of the chance of success in this endeavor. Republicans and Trump supporters have betrayed so many times already America's honor, American principles, respect for the rule of law and their duty to Constitution itself. What's one more time? We live in an era of petty men with petty concerns who are not fit inheritors for what the Greatest Generation and others that came before have left behind to us. Elected Republicans will be unable to rise to the occasion because they are small people with small worries - their seat - in a moment that calls for greatness and to stand for the nation. Trump supporters will not rise to the occasion because they have, in a way unprecedented in American history, moved from being a political movement into a Soviet-style cult of personality. They have long since abandoned their commitment to democracy. They have failed every test history has put before them up to this point to take a principled stand. They will fail here too.

But still we must proceed.

First, we must speak to history. It needs to echo through the ages where people stood at this time: on the side of democracy or authoritarianism. On the side of accountability and the rule of law, or a would be strong man who thinks the American Government is his property. History will bring ruin upon Trump and all who supported him. But history will speak kindly to those who stood up and said 'no'. We must put on record for our children and grandchildren that the majority of Americans stood up for our principles and there were the worthy among our fallen people.

Secondly, we must act as a deterrent against future Trump and future Presidents from trying this. Even if it does not succeed in removing Trump, it must create so much of a problem no President would get within a light year of anything like this again because this process will serve to completely ruin the last year of Trump's already failed Presidency. Who would choose this? For any reason? No one. Moreover, it will make other countries skittish about trying to do anything like this with any American President in the future. The Impeachment process simply serves to clip the President's wings.

Thirdly it gives Democrats a powerful argument going into the 2020 election. The evidence will be on the record in the public sphere. Which means they can weaponize it against Trump next year when it takes it's simple "meme" form, whatever that looks like. The strongest argument they can run with against Trump is that he is corrupt. They will be able to point to Impeachment.

Nancy Pelosi has a rather straightforward strategy ahead: through these public testimonies she has an opportunity to frame the issue as one of a simple choice. After the public testimony's Donald Trump can remain President but the US government will be utterly without any legitimacy and rule of law in this country will have completely broken down. Or he will be removed and rule of law will stand tall. Either way her most powerful tool is to create a crisis of legitimacy for Trump and the entirety of the US government. It will domestically isolate him. It has already internationally isolated him. And maybe... just maybe... it'll be enough to get some Republicans to make the right choice.

But that is the way through: Trump as President, or the legitimacy of our system of government, but not both.

I look forward to what is to come. It will be very painful for our country. Good. We have become fat and lazy and stupid. This is us getting back on the treadmill. And that's never fun at first. But we'll all be better off for it in the long run. Trump, the illegitimate President of the United states, an unindicted criminal, will almost certainly not be convicted in the Senate, but we will have done the right thing by standing for the rule of law - something we should be proud of for the rest of our lives - and by doing so we will have honored our sacred heritage.

God Bless America.

[Flarelaine]

Queue the usual sockpuppets and shitposters actually not giving a shit or trying to try and derail the thread again with their garbage in response to this, lol.

It takes two to tango.

[Poopymonster]

Or, and hear me out here, make it a secret ballot until after the next election. Then release the names to the public. Win, win, win.

Back room deals happen then we're back at this. Via Bitch McTurtle those republicans that are "safe" in their district are shown as having voted for it, those in "danger" are left voting against it, and magically it'll be an exact number to save their parties ass, or what's left of it.

Cut out the middleman bullshit and just vote in public. You'd get the same results most likely. We might trade Eulmore for Gilead.

[Draco-Onis]

Or, and hear me out here, make it a secret ballot until after the next election. Then release the names to the public. Win, win, win.

That's really wishful thinking Moscow Mitch has already said he won't remove Trump publicly and is fundraising off it. The only thing they are considering right now is how to use the proceedings to screw Bernie and Warren out of the nomination by keeping them in Washington as long as possible. The establishment democrats and republicans working together to screw progressives.

[Belize]

That's really wishful thinking Moscow Mitch has already said he won't remove Trump publicly and is fundraising off it. The only thing they are considering right now is how to use the proceedings to screw Bernie and Warren out of the nomination by keeping them in Washington as long as possible. The establishment democrats and republicans working together to screw progressives.

I don't think it'll affect Warren much, and Sanders needs to Sand-get-the-fuck-out of the race.

[Bodakane]

No secret ballots, and stop worrying if the impeachment will successfully remove him from office. It won't. It should, but Moscow Mitch and his Repub cultists in the Senate won't let it happen.

All votes need to be out and loud. The Dems need to focus on explaining the crimes clearly and concisely to the public. Then when the vote fails, you have the ammo needed to win 2020 and 2022. Every Repub who voted against it will have to answer for that come election time.

Play the long game and the Dems will have WH, house, and senate.

[Thekri]

No secret ballots, and stop worrying if the impeachment will successfully remove him from office. It won't. It should, but Moscow Mitch and his Repub cultists in the Senate won't let it happen.

All votes need to be out and loud. The Dems need to focus on explaining the crimes clearly and concisely to the public. Then when the vote fails, you have the ammo needed to win 2020 and 2022. Every Repub who voted against it will have to answer for that come election time.

Play the long game and the Dems will have WH, house, and senate.

My thought exactly. If the democrats can make a clear case to the American people, then the Republicans can either destroy themselves by voting to convict, or destroy themselves voting to acquit. Under no circumstances should an American President be removed by secret ballot. I am all for treating the symptom, but not at the risk of prolonging the disease. If the GOP is allowed to use the Trump administration to cement their stranglehold on power, by stacking courts, redrawing districts, straight up denying local elections (Like with local judges in Texas) or even overthrowing election results like in Kentucky, then we have no government left to defend. It is irrelevant which evil dictator rules us at that point.

To be sure, Trump wants to be that dictator that stays until he dies. But that is just his personal fixation. As much as he wants it to be about him, it isn't. I am far more concerned about what brought him here, and our vulnerability to a more talented and stable demagogue that can actually do what Trump wants to do. Holding the President publicly accountable is more important then removing him. If the case is made correctly he will lose in 2020 anyway.

Still, I think it is a moot point. There will not be a secret ballot. If a vote is taken it will be a party line vote (with one or two GOP dissidents) and Trump will remain. If McConnell actually wants him gone Trump will be forced to resign. McConnell will not let a removal vote pass the Senate one way or another, it would destroy his party.

[Draco-Onis]

I don't think it'll affect Warren much, and Sanders needs to Sand-get-the-fuck-out of the race.

It might keeping them away from the trail at crucial times can have an effect, the senate proceedings will be the trial of Joe Biden and they got to make sure he wins.

[PACOX]

Happy Impeachment Day every one!

And yes, this is basically the trail because we know the Senate is useless. The DA is calling forth its witnesses and the American people are the jurors.

I hope McConnell does refuse to try Trump, both will go down in the history books as villains. Legacy tarnished. I am more concerned with the precedent and exposure of faults in the system - both will be established and dealt with.

[Draco-Onis]

Happy Impeachment Day every one!

And yes, this is basically the trail because we know the Senate is useless. The DA is calling forth its witnesses and the American people are the jurors.

I hope McConnell does refuse to try Trump, both will go down in the history books as villains. Legacy tarnished. I am more concerned with the precedent and exposure of faults in the system - both will be established and dealt with.

He won't refuse to try him the trial is will be that of Joe Biden to show that all of Trump's conspiracy theories are legit and validate his insanity. Moscow Mitch and the GOP are going the work of the Russians by pushing the conspiracy theories blaming Ukraine and everything else.

[Themius]

Are republicans just delusional? Every time I watch an interview with a Republican Congressman they say how the majority of Americans are behind trump.

The president who lost the popular vote, and is in a party that by numbers is a minority of the populace.

[Orbitus]

Are republicans just delusional? Every time I watch an interview with a Republican Congressman they say how the majority of Americans are behind trump.

The president who lost the popular vote, and is in a party that by numbers is a minority of the populace.

Short answer? Yes. Long answer? YESSSSSSS. I mean, they don't care about facts anymore. They care about how much they can kiss Trump's ass.

[Thekri]

Guess Trump is parking himself in front of a TV showing only Fox today.



Super busy President.

New tweet from 5 minutes ago...

NEVER TRUMPERS!

There is no further context. That is the whole Tweet.

[Beefhammer]

Are republicans just delusional? Every time I watch an interview with a Republican Congressman they say how the majority of Americans are behind trump.

The president who lost the popular vote, and is in a party that by numbers is a minority of the populace.

Of course they are. They brag about 3.5M jobs created while Trump has been in office, thanks Obama, but said shit when yesterday he claimed his daughter created 14M all by herself. Also, they started impeachment inquiry because of a consensual sex act between two adults, legal, shitty, but legal. But seem to think red flags about illegal activities isn't impeachable.

[some guy]

It's kind of fun watching Trump meltdown on twitter. I can only imagine what his feed will look like later during public testimony.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

The Impeachment Hearings begin tomorrow. Prepare to be disappointed either way.

[Dontrike]

Open hearings for impeachment start today, right?

Trump is really riding that "hoax" train harder. Well, him and Fox, which is what Trump has been retweeting this morning.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/nfPioXa.png?1[/IG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/IBzU8fe.png?1[/IG]

Those damn "Doemocrats" Curse them for following the law!

"Everything is rigged" is just pathetic. But idiots will buy what is being sold to them.

That last sentence has me the most confused. The hell is he talking about? Also, calling Hannity a warrior is mind boggling.

[PACOX]

New tweet from 5 minutes ago...



There is no further context. That is the whole Tweet.

His argument is that everyone who testifies against him is a 'Never Trumper'. People who have worked with him basically until a few weeks ago.