Do people actually like classes in BFA?

[KOREAN DAVE]

You didn't run energizing elixir since the 8.0 talents came in. Fist of the white tiger was always superior.

So I guess your bad experience was due to being bad.

You do realize that Fist of the White Tiger is still a GCD you have to deal with, regardless? Sounds like you're just a fucking idiot. LOL

My point is still the same regardless of what CD is being used. You have to deal with 2 GCDs where previously you deal with 0 (in the case of SEF and Energizing Elixir) or 1 (Artifact Ability).

[Fkiolaris]

a)Objectively wrong but okay, that's fine. Only thing you were "missing" in the wod>legion leveling was tier. You lost nothing and gained more on top of it. If you're calling all prior expansions bare bones, sure, but if not, you're objectively incorrect

b)Versus abilities that were untouched for months, and useless in pve content. Like counterstrike totem.

c)They reshuffle talent trees every expansion, are you new?

a) I am objectively correct and you are talking bollocks. Remember how the specs played in Legion before a full artifact, legendaries (even the utility ones, never mind BiS) and the crucible? Pretty fun, yeah ?

b) useless maybe for you, but if you actually L2P you would find plenty of use for them in PvE too

c) they only started removing abilities en masse in WoD and continued from there, before that in every expansion you would get more abilities with very few, if any, being removed. I know, I was there from TBC to Legion.

[rohoz]

You do realize that Fist of the White Tiger is still a GCD you have to deal with, regardless? Sounds like you're just a fucking idiot. LOL

My point is still the same regardless of what CD is being used. You have to deal with 2 GCDs where previously you deal with 0 (in the case of SEF and Energizing Elixir) or 1 (Artifact Ability).

Well, since TP is a gcd too, you seem to not understand that dps spells are all on the gcd.

The opener is TP>Fist>SEF>FOF.
You're dumb.

Sounds like you 100% can't deal with a change in the meta rotation and you invented some headcanon that the game system is irreparably changed when in actuality you're bad.

- - - Updated - - -

a) I am objectively correct and you are talking bollocks. Remember how the specs played in Legion before a full artifact, legendaries (even the utility ones, never mind BiS) and the crucible? Pretty fun, yeah ?

b) useless maybe for you, but if you actually L2P you would find plenty of use for them in PvE too

c) they only started removing abilities en masse in WoD and continued from there, before that in every expansion you would get more abilities with very few, if any, being removed. I know, I was there from TBC to Legion.

I do remember how specs played before a full artifact in legion. I also remember how a spec played with shit gear and no tier in prior expansions.

All equal dogshit. You gain power as an expansion goes on. That's how character progression works.

You're wrong, shut up.


Or are you gonna sit here and lie about how riveting a fresh 60/70/80/85/90/100 was to play? If we're taking MoP as an example, classes felt like shit til HoF was out and you were able to get interesting gear, lol.

[KOREAN DAVE]

Well, since TP is a gcd too, you seem to not understand that dps spells are all on the gcd.

The opener is TP>Fist>SEF>FOF.
You're dumb.

Sounds like you 100% can't deal with a change in the meta rotation and you invented some headcanon that the game system is irreparably changed when in actuality you're bad.

Sounds like you're adding negative intent when my opinion on the spec was "Not much fun, GCD changes to CDs really mess with the class". When you suddenly have a 1.5 second gap where there was none previously, it doesn't feel good. WW was the spec I played the most in Legion so that change sticks out like a sore thumb. People can have negative opinions on a spec without being dumb, but you're just keen on insulting people and defending the GCD change like it's totally a good idea and Blizz didn't make a mistake. Go fuck yourself, retard.

[Nephys]

A lot of people here like the classes, but I find that curious due to all the hate on them the whole expansion, I would wager that most people have just given up and went for other games...

My personal opinion on the matter: I was an affliction warlock before bfa, and I loved it, specially in Legion, pvp, pve, raids... Everything. When I play affliction warlock I wanna play a guy that just spreads diseases, curses and all sorts of afflictions on my enemies, and before bfa that was actually what happened, I remember during pvp I would just spread curses and if no one dealt with me even the healers would run out of mana eventually, that was what I liked, that slow death coming.

On bfa an affliction warlock is a single target burst damage dealer with a builder/spender kit like 95% of the classes... So yeah, it's not possible for me to hate bfa class design more

[Kalisandra]

Depends on spec. I enjoy demonology warlock and believe BFA demonology is the best iteration ever. However destro lock is absolutely garbage since WoD

Personally I don't like how many skills feel like fillers you have to press just for sake pressing something. It is especially bad with builder specs where your skills hits like wet noodles until you push your spender.

I'm okay with the existence of builder-spender specs. What I'm not okay with is the way so many specs have been made into builder-spenders. It's better for the game if there are many types of rotation, so we can all find a style that suits us.

For example, I loved Affliction in Legion, but in BfA it's just not the same, relying on a CD to do any real damage.

[lifteez]

For perspective, I usually mostly play this game for cutting edge kills and hunting for ranks while on progression (don't care for deep into tier farm ranks), most of the time being 8-12 hour/week guilds getting sub 200 US since wotlk, Mostly on rogue/ feral Druid and monk.

This game still has fun classes, but for me, they’ve moved a decent amount of the skill cap of this game (of classes I play) from rotation complexity, including things like killing off snapshotting from MoP, gutting of many spells, gcd changes, etc.
they made the mechanics of fights harder, which I respect, I think that really works well for the player base at large in terms of giving players a challenge while pve’ing.

I couldn't have said this part any better than other posters here, so ill just quote one of the critical thinkers who summed it up well,
from Fkiolaris:

"a) the bare-bones specs that get to their intended state by a multitude of secondary systems at the final patch (only to be completely reset at the next expansion)

b) a number of abilities, mainly flavor or utility, are locked behind pvp and warmode.

c) abilities and passives that were integral for a spec in expansion A are removed or become talents/effects of legendary items/whatever in the next expansion, usually in direct competition with other abilities/talents with which they were synergising in the previous expansion."

I don’t find myself joining normal/heroic pugs all day and helping casual guilds get their kills, like I’ve always done in the past. Years of killing certain bosses on heroic hundred of times because it was a fun fight to push myself on like a spread council fight as feral for example. the classes I could play for a hundred hours a month, that haven't even been reworked, feel like shells of themselves in terms of complexity and things I can do to differentiate myself as a player.

I think I personally enjoy this game for rotational minimaxing on a patchwork esc fight, honestly, but I’m sorry classes have gotten easier every expansion since WoD, if you already have learned how to use cds smartly by fight length, watching timers to pool for adds, Etc. I will say that I swapped to boomkin from feral and it was a lot of fun to relearn how to have smart movement as a caster, but the rotation was too simple to keep me feeling engaged besides trying to plan my movement. I shouldn't be able to do the same damage as hardcore boomkin players at the top end, as a life long melee player after 2 raids of playing as a caster.

Alot of classes pigeon holed into having aoe or ST tools in the same row as eachother, like with the ferals case - they gave us the biggest bandaids to our lacking dps metrics (aoe burst, ST burst, Aoe sustain in previous tiers) in this expansion - they gave us an aoe finisher, and an aoe burst spender, on the same row. Now if they could give us a decent ST burst choice over ST sustain, we’d be in the money!! /sarcasm aside, it feels awful to only have one tool at a time when they mean so much, especially when they took some of them away in our base line to give them to us as talents. If the game could give you more rotational flexibility to make choices like forgoing boss damage for higher aoe burst (if only, so many classes just cleaves off main target for their aoe now) then the choices we would have to make would feel better than “taking the ST talent or the aoe talent” for a fight. they made our artifact main power as a strong ST burst, which was a great edition to our spec, and they did the same for many specs that had 'holes' in their play that players noticed. too bad those great improvements to a specs gameplay are locked into a system that's not here anymore.

I think they need a lot of TLC in the way classes play for higher end players, id like to see more interactions and complexity between our spells that we more recently have gotten as talents/azurite gear/artifact power, to the detriment of not seeing them as permeant editions - we used to have more of them base line and the only thing that would change might be some balance that could change openers or at what number you swap to aoe from ST/cleave, and a new tier set, from tier to tier.

But honestly? All of that aside, and I’ve thought this way for a while, it could just be the game has slowly lost its magic for me, to no fault of its own. I really deeply appreciate M+, it provides greatly changing situations that allows for hard choices on CD usage and even rotational choices sometimes(just to contrast all the gloom I’ve said about classes themselves).

[Fkiolaris]

I do remember how specs played before a full artifact in legion. I also remember how a spec played with shit gear and no tier in prior expansions.

All equal dogshit. You gain power as an expansion goes on. That's how character progression works.

You're wrong, shut up.


Or are you gonna sit here and lie about how riveting a fresh 60/70/80/85/90/100 was to play? If we're taking MoP as an example, classes felt like shit til HoF was out and you were able to get interesting gear, lol.

Had I not known any better, I would have said that your levels of intellectual (if you can even call it that) dishonesty are astounding, but I know better. However, just to point the bloody obvious: I am talking about ABILITIES and PASSIVES, and you are talking about GEAR. Nobody refutes that specs play better with gear, but my points a, b and c that you chose to comment on where about losing abilities and thus flavour and depth, not losing gear and power. But little details like this can't get in the way of a blind defence, can they!?!?!

[gd8]

Well, if you like one you'd like them all, because they are literal the same.

I started leveling my 100 dk, but now I'm bored. Because he feels like any other melee class I have.

Wasn't the case in classic. Affl lock was really fun to play in classic. I know you guys say just go back to classic then, but seriously why do you want a damaged retail version? Do you want retail to die or something?

Having 12 classes to pick from is just a visual and psychological trick, cus they are all the same class.

lol @ thinking any classic class is fun to play or that there's any variety in pressing frost bolt frost bolt frost bolt versus shadow bolt shadow bolt shadow bolt

there's more variety in class/spec playstyle currently in retail than there's ever been

[Phurox]

lol @ thinking any classic class is fun to play or that there's any variety in pressing frost bolt frost bolt frost bolt versus shadow bolt shadow bolt shadow bolt

there's more variety in class/spec playstyle currently in retail than there's ever been

I don't really think you can teach me anything. I was in classic until now. I play both classic and retail now. Maybe the rotation is as simple, but we've lost almost all the uniqueness for each class. Waock death coil, dks army of the dead, mages can only use one type of magic etc.

You take the most basic spec frost mage compared to today, yes then it's more complicated today. If you compare to dk, combat Rogue or affl lock, then no.

Afflocks didn't only spam Shadow bolt in classic.only of you suck.

[Uoyredrum]

Set bonuses and artifact weapons were part of class design.

Yeah and that's a big problem. They shouldn't be using set bonuses to fix broken class design in other areas, like they did with arms warriors in wod for example. That's why I said it was used as padding to hide how bad it was in other areas, something that became apparent when they removed tier sets entirely.

[sam86]

i miss elemental shamans from wrath :P instantly removing half of someones HP was great.

elemental shaman specially is one of specs who never had a cookie cutter talent built until end of wrath, i remember it because as officer in my guild (priest officer, not shaman) I remember how shamans had problem
basically just pick the talents that give new ability, but there is no confirmed best talent
i still love it, also i think TBC early model was better of crit = mana, make shaman have sh8tty mp5 but make him crit = mana, a very risky gameplay style

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Their theme and the feel and flow of the rotation

Theme as in different colored spells and animations? I hate to break it to you but Mortal Strike and Templars Verdict is the same ability, Frostbolt and Fireball is the same, Sinister Strike and whatever monk and demon hunter builders all do the same things. But that's fine, that's your main rotations and will always have a builder/spender and combo system.
What has been stripped is all the "outside of normal rotation" abilities we used to have, abilities that if used correctly would make a big impact on your damage or on your group. Like I've said in other posts this is more linked to hybrid classes (Paladin, Druids, Shamans- and monks if you count them), the ability to throw an offheal to save someone, to have a totem that does something special, to have druids use Tranquility and so on. These were flavorful and impactful abilities in raids, dungeons and pvp. Now they're gone and "hybrids" are dead. As far as I'm concerned there's no such thing as hybrids anymore, you're a dps, tank or healer and if there's no "flavor reason" to play a Ret Paladin then you might as well play a Warrior which is better in every single way. If you're a Feral Druid then you should go Rogue (or DH because of debuff... lol).

[Luxeley]

The majority of the classes are broken or less than desired for various reasons. Some aren't viable in Pvp or Pve, others feel clunky with conflicted rotations or simply not fun.

[Khrux]

Nostalgia: The Thread.

[Polybius]

No. Most classes are absolutely not slow. Gameplay in WoW in general is extremely fast-paced. Almost to a fault.

Sure it is, that's why they don't feel clunky or hindered by GCDs. Oh wait...

[Biske]

I like them, but I'd like a bunch of utility skills that were made spec-specific go back to being class-wide, and I'd also like for some skills that were made into pvp talents, be made into baseline spells (and also, some new pvp talents just be made baseline period because some of them are really cool but feel like they'd be way better in a pve setting)

One skill that I want made baseline and un-nerfed that was turned into a shitty pvp talent, for example, is Dark Simulacrum. Used to be that I could copy a handful of really fun spells from enemies, but now it only copies player spells. Dark Simulacrum wasn't even a powerful spell or anything but sometimes it really feels like Blizzard just hates fun.

[Dellinth]

I think homogeneous rotations are an issue, not having unique utility is an issue, but specs feeling different from each other thematically is definitely not an issue to me. If some guy wants to summon zombies as a frost dk make it a talent. I personally like being a frosty battlemage with a giant frostwyrm I can sunmon.

[Sezh]

Resto shaman do more dps than disc priests
You don't bring disc for dps. You bring disc because shields are powerful. If your raid needs dps and a healer they usually get what the community calls a "battle shaman" which is a resto shaman with 3x igneous potential that does damage outside of dropping tides/links/healing in hard phases.


and thank god that it's not up to you because these uninformed decisions, wheww chile.

1. There's a difference between active DPS and passive DPS
2. Exactly what I said, raid wide damage reduction is way too powerful, every healer that lacks this tool is never worth bringing to cutting edge progression.
3. There is not a single fight in EP that warrants bringing a IP shaman, because why not just bring another DPS.
4. If you think it's a good healer meta where every single fight of progression, the 3-4 healer slots are -always- filled up with 1-2 Discs or 1-2 pallys, and no other healing spec is even considered an option, you are utterly clueless.

Also, you are a toxic and unbearable person. Try having a discussion like a normal person next time, hope you're banned for a long time.

[Tradu]

Essences made classes feel a lot better, now with corrupted gear and weapons, I think they will feel even better at last tier. At least fire mage and shadow priest feel nice to play with versatile playstyle

See, I think essences made them feel worse(and far more generic/homogenized), because all they did was add another GCD before you actually get to do damage on ST/cleave, and on AoE everybody just spends the first 3 GCDs channeling a stupid beam. Essences have basically 0 gameplay impact other than adding that extra GCD, because they're all generic rather than spec specific. CnS in theory does change things, but there's 2 specs in the game that actually use it. Lucid and Visions have some impact on a couple of specs, but it's very few and only 1-2 spec uses either consistently (Fire and Shadow for Lucid, and even then CLF is just as good or better depending on fight length, Holy Paladin for Visions)

- - - Updated - - -

Resto shaman do more dps than disc priests
You don't bring disc for dps. You bring disc because shields are powerful. If your raid needs dps and a healer they usually get what the community calls a "battle shaman" which is a resto shaman with 3x igneous potential that does damage outside of dropping tides/links/healing in hard phases.


and thank god that it's not up to you because these uninformed decisions, wheww chile.

Battle shaman is hilariously overrated and should basically never be used. Disc does the most DPS while actively healing, and it really isn't close. Absorbs are also only a small part of the reason people bring Disc. It's primarily DPS, HPS and Barrier.

- - - Updated - - -

a)Objectively wrong but okay, that's fine. Only thing you were "missing" in the wod>legion leveling was tier. You lost nothing and gained more on top of it. If you're calling all prior expansions bare bones, sure, but if not, you're objectively incorrect

b)Versus abilities that were untouched for months, and useless in pve content. Like counterstrike totem.

c)They reshuffle talent trees every expansion, are you new?

Except we lost tons going into Legion because they reworked most specs, so they are absolutely bare bones and rely on artifacts etc to fix it. Half the specs don't have functioning, well-rounded baseline kits.