[TV] Batwoman

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The Ruso brothers confirm this you brick wall not any random person.

Odin dies next this happens

https://youtu.be/PIDBIEuMSD8

Rusos confirm it. It's connected by the film itself.Case dismissed

that's not how any of this works but i'm not gonna humor your off topic fan theory's any more.

The heck avengers were saved by antman if it wasn't for him they were messed up.explsins why Captain sue was sidelined in endgame.

Again Mr I readwhatiwant

I read what you put and for the most part that seems like broken English but as it might be your second language i won't fault you for that.

when people involved directly in your film call you a Mary Sue there is no argument. Otherwise why the creator of Captain marvel would say wonderwoman was better.

Liking a movie more and a character being a mary sue are not the same thing it doesn't work that way.

I will go to batmam and say that if you want to have a strong female lead go and see all the alien films and that's how you do it. A character that is involved ,feels strong yet has weaknesses.a character that everyone can sympathize unlike the look ima woman Batwoman shitshow

The same alien films with Vasquez?

I think a mistake is being made by calling these characters strong. Strength comes from work, overcoming adversity and striving to better yourself. You aren't strong when you can already do everything and just shrug everything off. I appreciate seeing actually strong female characters who actually have to work through something, like Ripley, having to fight, having to face that queen despite the fact you know she's terrified of these aliens, as you see when she's having nightmares at the beginning of the movie. Having female characters who start out being "strong" and then they have no faults, make no actual mistakes and don't have to work for what they get is a disservice to women everywhere and I believe it does more harm than good, telling us we need to be that perfect to be considered strong. No. Strength can only come by conquering your own weakness just like courage only comes when you're afraid. These characters aren't strong, they're poorly written examples of wish fulfillment. I'll take a female character who starts out weak, or who has even stereotypical female weaknesses they have to overcome over these characters any day of the weak! Give me a character who whines about cramps, takes a Pamprin and then forces herself to move on. Might sound silly, but it's far more realistic.

If you think this is the case for any of the characters we have gone over then the only real thing to say is you haven't been paying attention.

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"Rey also doesn’t reach her power for no reason just like Wonder Woman she was born with them but instead of getting them from Zeus she got them from the force."

Is this...seriously your argument? Even a chosen one like Anakin and Luke failed a fuck ton...

Idk why you think using the force= a ton of power, when it clearly doesn't. Rey doesn't even have proper Jedi training, yet she beat Kylo in her first fight...

Can I fucking die yet?

when comparing rey and wonder women who are both born with power and didn't train in it? ya when comparing to characters you normally compare them whats the problem? no one was comparing anakain or luke to wonder woman.

and using the force isn't a ton of power but you can be incredibly powerful in the force compared to other force users and kylo and rey are at the top of the charts and yes she beat some one bleeding to death good on her i'm sure shell kick over a toddler next and people will complain that it make them over powered as well.

[Ivanstone]

The problem with modern female characters is that they are usually perfect. They’re good at everything for no reason. Rey can use the Force like a Jedi master with almost no training, and no Force sensitivity that we’re aware of. Michael Burnham knows the jobs of everyone on the ship better than everyone on the ship — as it is, Captain Pike seems to have to get her permission to captain. In Ghostbusters 2016, the women only failed if the plot required it, or if they were using it for comic effect. There was no work involved in Carol Danvers becoming Captain Marvel; she just stood in front of a jet engine. Now, she’s the most powerful being in the MCU, possibly more powerful than Thanos.

JJ Abrams delivered the exact movie I thought he would. Rey is good at force using because exposition is boring and action scenes are fun. Never assume malice when incompetence will do.
If you're going to critique Discovery you should at least watch it. And the other Trek shows. Burnham isn't anymore remarkable than many, many other characters on those shows. Speaking of which why is Data or Spock a boy? Or Q presents himself as a male?
Ghostbusters 2016 showed a bunch of ladies who mostly didn't know what they were doing. Much like the first movie except less funny.
Captain Marvel lasted 5 seconds against Thanos and then get owned. In a timeline that Dr. Strange knew would happen. Thor was born with most of his power and the rest was given to him by daddy. The Hulk was in an accident.

hijacking a male-dominated franchise

Ah, so there it is. Lighten up. No need to assume people are to get you or your favorite shows.

[niztheundead87]

that's not how any of this works but i'm not gonna humor your off topic fan theory's any more.

I read what you put and for the most part that seems like broken English but as it might be your second language i won't fault you for that.

Liking a movie more and a character being a mary sue are not the same thing it doesn't work that way.

The same alien films with Vasquez?




If you think this is the case for any of the characters we have gone over then the only real thing to say is you haven't been paying attention.

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when comparing rey and wonder women who are both born with power and didn't train in it? ya when comparing to characters you normally compare them whats the problem? no one was comparing anakain or luke to wonder woman.

and using the force isn't a ton of power but you can be incredibly powerful in the force compared to other force users and kylo and rey are at the top of the charts and yes she beat some one bleeding to death good on her i'm sure shell kick over a toddler next and people will complain that it make them over powered as well.

Short story : I have no clue will shut my ears and lalal to deny whatever you say and create something out of my head.

Alien has a strong female lead you imbecile

The Odin part : Rusos brothers admit it , so you are wrong.

Rey , the creators admit it so you are wrong again

You bring be virtue signaling and not only you fail but you contradict yourself

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Short story : I have no clue will shut my ears and lalal to deny whatever you say and create something out of my head.

I Mean that's an odd way of saying that I've been picking your post apart to point out all the places where you have been wrong but ok what ever.

Alien has a strong female lead you imbecile

didn't refute this i just pointed out that it also has female character's that fall into what is considered a default strong women and one that was well liked.

The Odin part : Rusos brothers admit it , so you are wrong.

I really don't get what part of maybe you don't understand but given that you think posting other people's fan theory's makes your fan theory right its probably just understanding in general.

Rey , the creators admit it so you are wrong again

the creators admit what? that her lack of training and being born with her powers are the same as wonder women? because that's all I've claimed on rey other then pointing out the many things you have said that are just flatly wrong while you wrestle with a stawman.

You bring be virtue signaling and not only you fail but you contradict yourself

again i haven't virtue signaled any thing as I haven't given my opinion on any of these movies or any of theses characters. all i have done is point out the many many things you have been wrong about and I have at no point contradicted my self.

[Shadowferal]

*shrugs*
It's off the topic but yeah, in the comics when Odin and Thanos (No Infinity Stones) went toe-to-toe, Odin beat him pretty badly.

[niztheundead87]

I Mean that's an odd way of saying that I've been picking your post apart to point out all the places where you have been wrong but ok what ever.

didn't refute this i just pointed out that it also has female character's that fall into what is considered a default strong women and one that was well liked.

I really don't get what part of maybe you don't understand but given that you think posting other people's fan theory's makes your fan theory right its probably just understanding in general.

the creators admit what? that her lack of training and being born with her powers are the same as wonder women? because that's all I've claimed on rey other then pointing out the many things you have said that are just flatly wrong while you wrestle with a stawman.



again i haven't virtue signaled any thing as I haven't given my opinion on any of these movies or any of theses characters. all i have done is point out the many many things you have been wrong about and I have at no point contradicted my self.

ronically, the whole "LOOK! A strong lady! How unusual and unique!" advertising strategy seems really sexist. If you really want to depict more women as being just as powerful and interesting as men (which I'm 100% on board with), shouldn't you just treat a strong female character as... normal?
Putting something or someone on a pedestal for a trait they can't control might not be as overtly dangerous as degrading them for it, but it's just as annoying.
This is all coming from me, a female writer who's currently doing a story about two girls saving their planet and falling in love. You just have to treat them like any other character. Give them strengths, flaws, fears and dreams. Those are far more interesting than gender

not only you are wrong but you create ideas out of thin air to push your bs arguements when you have been already proven wrong

the odin part was already confirmed y everyone execpt , you for some idiotic reason

as for rey once more since you cant read : PEOPLE DIRECTRLY INVOLVED IN THE FILM MAKING CALLED HER A MARY SUE

you wonder woman arguement vs rey is not only idiotic but as the person before me said : Rey also doesn’t reach her power for no reason just like Wonder Woman she was born with them but instead of getting them from Zeus she got them from the force." you contradict your own self with this LOL
Wonder woman never had to brag about her strength. She was strong and people reacted


>rey got her powers out of thin air? thats a mary sue
>better than luke , yep sue as well
> defeats people with much better experience , SUE
Rey simply has no nuance, no personality, no charm, no charisma, no pull, no interesting history or backstory. She's literally a blank slate character who came out of nowhere and somehow she's the most special person in the galaxy without a reason for it or without any struggle or hardship.she got powers because reasons.

Strong female characters have been a thing in Star Wars since 1977. Leia basically led the escape of the Death Star and didn't take any crap from Han or even Tarkin, one of the most intimidating men in the galaxy at the time. Despite Leia seemingly ticking most of the boxes for a 'female asserts dominance over male, what is this feminist rubbish' argument I have never once seen anyone attempt to make one because Leia has always been a strong believable character who just happens to be female. Before the Sequel Trilogy her dialogue and actions never stood out as being unnatural to the scene so nobody has ever felt the need to pick her apart or look for underlying feminist subtext, as opposed to Rey who can seemingly do anything right first time with zero issues, from making Prequel Yoda look like a lightsaber novice while having 0 experience or training to telling Han and Chewie how to repair their own ship 30 minutes after setting eyes on it for the first time in her life nothing she does feels believable or earned.

Despite the variety of cool scenes in The Force Awakens I was genuinely bored long before the end because there were just no stakes at all. Audiences connect with characters by seeing their struggles and wanting to see them overcome those struggles, but if there are no struggles then what is there to get invested in?

It wasn't just Rey that I struggled to connect with, Finn was treated no better. Despite his character getting off to a promising start they promptly threw it all out the window by showing him firing a TIE Fighter point blank into a crowd of his fellow stormtroopers barely 2 scenes after literally having a panic attack because he saw one of them die. How is that believable character-progression? I'm getting off topic, but the main point is that people don't dislike Rey for being a female, they dislike her for being basically a non-character who takes all the excitement out of the film by showing the audience that no matter what happens she'll magically pull something out of thin air to instantly fix the problem.
Rey and Carol Danvers are not even characters. They're position statements with legs. It's hard to enjoy a movie starring a non-character.

Just a cool side note about Sigourney Weaver when asked: "What attracted you to Ripley as a character?" She basically replied: "What I really appreciate about the script- when they decided to make the survivor a woman they didn't write it like a (specifically) girl's part they just wrote a character, so in a sense she's almost an "everyman" (trope) character and I think that's one reason why she's held up. That was a forward-thinking idea I think they all wanted to see this girl kick the alien's ass it has this wonderful relentless momentum and I'm glad that people still like it today. It's incredible, but it seems to have held up pretty well."

Ripley is such a good example of a strong female character because the movie doesn't acknowledge her as a 'female main character' at any point and time. She's just a person who is the most competent, skilled and likable (In my opinion.) trying to survive the dilemma she was in. I wish I could've watched Alien without knowing Ripley was the main character, because in my opinion it's what I found most enthralling about the flick, it's how it subverts your premade expectations and shows you a true strong character through character development and screen progression.



Sarah Conor had a mental breakdown because a killer robot from the future tried to kill her and she responded by training and preparing.
The bride from kill bill was a trained assassin and was betrayed, so she used her skills to get revenge.
Trinity from the Matrix woke up in a world where robots and AI had taken over the world. Her skills were downloaded (like everyone else) and she used those skills and joined the army of humans rebelling against the matrix.

All of these women are loved by fans and they all got beat up and struggled and suffered and felt like real humans. We saw all of them train and grow as they fought for what they believed in.

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*shrugs*
It's off the topic but yeah, in the comics when Odin and Thanos (No Infinity Stones) went toe-to-toe, Odin beat him pretty badly.

yep thats true : https://www.marvel.com/characters/odin/in-comics din in his prime would stomp thanos anytime

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JJ Abrams delivered the exact movie I thought he would. Rey is good at force using because exposition is boring and action scenes are fun. Never assume malice when incompetence will do.
If you're going to critique Discovery you should at least watch it. And the other Trek shows. Burnham isn't anymore remarkable than many, many other characters on those shows. Speaking of which why is Data or Spock a boy? Or Q presents himself as a male?
Ghostbusters 2016 showed a bunch of ladies who mostly didn't know what they were doing. Much like the first movie except less funny.
Captain Marvel lasted 5 seconds against Thanos and then get owned. In a timeline that Dr. Strange knew would happen. Thor was born with most of his power and the rest was given to him by daddy. The Hulk was in an accident.


Ah, so there it is. Lighten up. No need to assume people are to get you or your favorite shows.

you are the worst kind of sjw in here sorry but all you got is : the toxic males

[Malaky]

If you think this is the case for any of the characters we have gone over then the only real thing to say is you haven't been paying attention.

Actually that's pretty spot on. Good characters, male or female, are those who strive and fail before becoming strong.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

ronically, the whole "LOOK! A strong lady! How unusual and unique!" advertising strategy seems really sexist. If you really want to depict more women as being just as powerful and interesting as men (which I'm 100% on board with), shouldn't you just treat a strong female character as... normal?

I'n some cases this is only a problem with advertising and not the actual movie. rey being a women for example is never even commented on in the movies.

not only you are wrong but you create ideas out of thin air to push your bs arguements when you have been already proven wrong

this hasn't happened.

the odin part was already confirmed y everyone execpt , you for some idiotic reason

you say keep saying that yet you haven't actually posted any sort of confirmation just other fan theory's while i just keep saying mabye.

as for rey once more since you cant read : PEOPLE DIRECTRLY INVOLVED IN THE FILM MAKING CALLED HER A MARY SUE

ok and? you seem to think I'm saying shes not a mary sue but i haven't.

you wonder woman arguement vs rey is not only idiotic but as the person before me said : Rey also doesn’t reach her power for no reason just like Wonder Woman she was born with them but instead of getting them from Zeus she got them from the force." you contradict your own self with this LOL

That's not a contradiction as that's not how starwars works. there is literally a godly force guiding even'ts in the galaxy she didn't just wake up one day to be force sensitive for no reason any more then wonder women could have been born to a none god.

>rey got her powers out of thin air? thats a mary sue
>better than luke , yep sue as well
> defeats people with much better experience , SUE
Rey simply has no nuance, no personality, no charm, no charisma, no pull, no interesting history or backstory. She's literally a blank slate character who came out of nowhere and somehow she's the most special person in the galaxy without a reason for it or without any struggle or hardship.she got powers because reasons.

all of this is your own strawman.

Rey and Carol Danvers are not even characters. They're position statements with legs. It's hard to enjoy a movie starring a non-character.

eh carol is a character rey is iffy.

[eschatological]

This topic has gone so far off topic it isn't funny. Discussion of social agendas and conspiracy theories are not allowed on this subforum (conspiracies aren't allowed anywhere on this forum). If you want to discuss Hollywood and what kind of messaging it's trying to send, send that nonsense to GenOT.

Get back on topic.

[niztheundead87]

I'n some cases this is only a problem with advertising and not the actual movie. rey being a women for example is never even commented on in the movies.

this hasn't happened.

you say keep saying that yet you haven't actually posted any sort of confirmation just other fan theory's while i just keep saying mabye.

ok and? you seem to find I'm saying she snot a mary sue but i haven't.

That's not a contradiction as that's not how starwars works. there is literally a godly force guiding even'ts in the galaxy she didn't just wake up one day to be force sensitive.

all of this is your own strawman.



eh carol is a character rey is iffy.

You bring no arguments just bs aspull ideas

I can write essays on and on to prove you that wrong but the only thing you do is chery pick and twist my words to suit you non arguement

Strong female leads must feel in a struggle otherwise they are Mary sues like Rey is

You said youself earlier she got everything from the force then you say she's not a marye sue yet she is hence why the creators themselves said it

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This topic has gone so far off topic it isn't funny. Discussion of social agendas and conspiracy theories are not allowed on this subforum (conspiracies aren't allowed anywhere on this forum). If you want to discuss Hollywood and what kind of messaging it's trying to send, send that nonsense to GenOT.

Get back on topic.

Batwoman is crap as hell

[Skulltaker]

You bring no arguments just bs aspull ideas

I can write essays on and on to prove you that wrong but the only thing you do is chery pick and twist my words to suit you Jon arguement

Strong female leads must feel in a struggle otherwise they are Mary sues like Rey is

A decent chunk of 'strong female leads' these days have the problem that the writers focus on them being strong and female and neglect to give them any character. See Captain Marvel.

Write a Character first. Then decide whether he has a dick or a cunt, or whatever.

Characters don't have to be struggling to be interesting, or 'not Mary Sues'.

Batwoman isn't bad because she's a woman, or because of an agenda, it's bad because the characters are badly written, void of any character and uninteresting to boot, coupled with a mediocre story (so far) bordering stereotypical bad writing. The fact that the lead is a woman has nothing to do with it. I'd say the same if the lead was Brodude McManlypants. The show just sucks.

And now please stop derailing 'my' thread.

[niztheundead87]

A decent chunk of 'strong female leads' these days have the problem that the writers focus on them being strong and female and neglect to give them any character. See Captain Marvel.

Write a Character first. Then decide whether he has a dick or a cunt, or whatever.

Characters don't have to be struggling to be interesting, or 'not Mary Sues'.

Batwoman isn't bad because she's a woman, or because of an agenda, it's bad because the characters are badly written, void of any character and uninteresting to boot, coupled with a mediocre story (so far) bordering stereotypical bad writing. The fact that the lead is a woman has nothing to do with it. I'd say the same if the lead was Brodude McManlypants. The show just sucks.

And now please stop derailing 'my' thread.

You just repeated what I said earlier but twisted some of my words

Having" strong female characters isn't a problem.
"PUSHING" strong female characters is the problem

[Skulltaker]

You just repeated what I said earlier but twisted some of my words

I just wanted to get this off in general, probably shouldn't have quoted you in particular.

[Ivanstone]

Batwoman is crap as hell

Yes, yes it is. But not because of the SJW's or whatever boogeywoman you're trying to invent. Again no need to assume malice when incompetence will do.

[niztheundead87]

Yes, yes it is. But not because of the SJW's or whatever boogeywoman you're trying to invent. Again no need to assume malice when incompetence will do.

They could do anything close to Ripley but no they had to go on and beyond to push the "ima female" when all they accomplished is to alienate the fanbase hence the flop.

Kill Bill did it much better she is strong but yet you have points where she struggles not only with her enemies but her own decisions when she chose her baby over the assassins life.it makes her likeable and believable

[Malaky]

This topic has gone so far off topic it isn't funny. Discussion of social agendas and conspiracy theories are not allowed on this subforum (conspiracies aren't allowed anywhere on this forum). If you want to discuss Hollywood and what kind of messaging it's trying to send, send that nonsense to GenOT.

Get back on topic.

Wait, are we allowed to say that Batwoman is a crap show with an obnoxious protagonist, or that's a "conspiracy theory" as well?

And if we are, why aren't we allowed to discuss why we think this obnoxiousness exists?

Just asking for a clear answer here, because unlike others I've seen this intervention seems more ideological than based off moderation.

[Ivanstone]

Write a Character first. Then decide whether he has a dick or a cunt, or whatever.

Some characters are inherently male or female. Yes, you could write a movie about a dude struggling with his pregnancy but if you're doing a pregnancy struggle movie you should probably make the character female.

Batwoman is actually an inherently female character. Ok, its because DC needed to convince a bunch of hysterical idiots that Batman wasn't gay by giving him a beard but that's still a girl's job!

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You bring no arguments just bs aspull ideas

Untrue but if you want to ignore all my post and project you do you i guess.

I can write essays on and on to prove you that wrong but the only thing you do is chery pick and twist my words to suit you non arguement

You can't write even a paragraph to prove me wrong you have spent most of the post attacking your own starwmen or linking other people's theory's and claiming them as fact. I do love that i'm apparently the one cherry picking when you ignore most of my post to post irrelevant stuff about odin.

Strong female leads must feel in a struggle otherwise they are Mary sues like Rey is

ok i agree, I haven't contested this.

You said youself earlier she got everything from the force then you say she's not a marye sue yet she is hence why the creators themselves said it

yes rey got the power to use the force from the force just like wonder women got the power to use godly powers from Zeus. both are given there powers from god, both don't train in them, both use them to defeat more experienced opponents. hell rey has a slight excuse because kylo was injured wonder woman has none. But ill say this again as you don't seem to be reading it, I have not said rey wasn't a mary sue.

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This topic has gone so far off topic it isn't funny. Discussion of social agendas and conspiracy theories are not allowed on this subforum (conspiracies aren't allowed anywhere on this forum). If you want to discuss Hollywood and what kind of messaging it's trying to send, send that nonsense to GenOT.

Get back on topic.

just curious as i'm not sure where it falls and i'm awful at staying on topic. is posting about other shows/movies and comparing them to DC products count as kinda on topic or should i cut it out all together.

[Ivanstone]

They could do anything close to Ripley but no they had to go on and beyond to push the "ima female" when all they accomplished is to alienate the fanbase hence the flop.

Except they didn't do that. You're just making shit up because you're on a witch-hunt. Its a weak show. You could point out actual reasons why its weak. Boring fights. Extra stupid pseudo-science. Mostly boring supporting characters. Etc, etc.

Its still not a flop. A flop would've been cancelled.

[niztheundead87]

Except they didn't do that. You're just making shit up because you're on a witch-hunt. Its a weak show.

Its still not a flop. A flop would've been cancelled.

Flop means being shit as hell which is true

You can't see beyond your virtue signaling sjw witch hunt