[UK] General Election 2019

[Slant]

the last time some ones said they had a resolution to a question on a people's they wern't a very nice man.

i mostly saying it because a labour support was shouting things to the effect at some jews on a video i watched earlier tonight.

Ok, replace question with border then, same effect. I really don't care.

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"_____ Question" is terminology that is generally frowned upon in politics for historical reasons.

Okay, I don't care. Call it what you will, it'll be on the table.

[Monster Hunter]

Labour cannot split now. If they do they'll be handing the Tory party indefinite power.

they already are. its been 9 years now, and 4 GE's.

the lost scotland to the snp, that makes things really difficult even when there united. cos thats at least a 50 seat defect from where Blair started.
then you have that labours supporters are divided and as such are being bled away to the lib dems and Brexit party any way.

the labour party really is right up shit creek with no paddles, no boat and no idea.

and as i type another labor hold fell in workington and labour has had a shadow cabinet member ejected from there seat.

this is looking worse in some ways than even i warned and i did warn that labours policy was going end with this.

[Slant]

No, British independence from the continent. There hasn't been a day like this since Dunkirk.

You use the term "independence" very loosely. I don't think it means what you think it means.

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Labour cannot split now. If they do they'll be handing the Tory party indefinite power.

Unlike the crushing blow they dealt them now?

[Monster Hunter]

darlington flipped to cons for first time since 1992

[mojojojo202]

they already are. its been 9 years now, and 4 GE's.

the lost scotland to the snp, that makes things really difficult even when there united. cos thats at least a 50 seat defect from where Blair started.
then you have that labours supporters are divided and as such are being bled away to the lib dems and Brexit party any way.

the labour party really is right up shit creek with no paddles, no boat and no idea.

and as i type another labor hold fell in workington and labour has had a shadow cabinet member ejected from there seat.

this is looking worse in some ways than even i warned and i did warn that labours policy was going end with this.

I mean the Labour party have been leaking votes since 2001, they lost 150 seats between then and 2010, if the exit poll is to be believed that's another 60 odd gone.

You are right. Labour are fucked. They have nowhere to move.

What they cant do is split up the monolith though, if they do and FPTP is maintained there is quite simply no way any one other than the Conservatives win future elections.

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Unlike the crushing blow they dealt them now?

The reality of FPTP means one of two parties will win. You break apart one of those and not the other your going to end up with a one party state.

This is the problem, the factions in Labour seemingly cant win together and they definitely cant win apart.

[Kallisto]

The reality of FPTP means one of two parties will win. You break apart one of those and not the other your going to end up with a one party state.

This is the problem, the factions in Labour seemingly cant win together and they definitely cant win apart.

This.

I think the big one was (not in the UK) 1912 USA. Woodrow Wilson won the election because Teddy Roosevelt ran with his splinter party and split the republican vote hard.

[Dhrizzle]

The reality of FPTP means one of two parties will win. You break apart one of those and not the other your going to end up with a one party state.

This is the problem, the factions in Labour seemingly cant win together and they definitely cant win apart.

In effect this is already happening with left leaning votes being split between Labour, Lib Dems and SNP.

[Kallisto]

In effect this is already happening with left leaning votes being split between Labour, Lib Dems and SNP.

Also it is helping Labour not lose harder in a few northern areas. Where they are holding on by skin of their teeth with big swings away from Labour but to Brexit party and not Tories.

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Fucking hell Wrexham went Tory and that place has been Labour since Blair time even earlier

[Dhrizzle]

Also it is helping Labour not lose harder in a few northern areas. Where they are holding on by skin of their teeth with big swings away from Labour but to Brexit party and not Tories.

*nods* Brexit party is a wild card which could be drawing voters from either of the two parties. At this point we also can't rule out Lib Dems being boosted by disgruntled Conservative Remainers.

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55 seats to the SNP would give Sturgeon a decent mandate to demand a second IndyRef.

[Monster Hunter]

fuck me liegh in manchester went tory with a huge swing O.O

[Theodarzna]

Labour lost because the biggest and most important issue was Brexit and they didn't know where or stand on it. The Professional Managerial Class voters of London who love the EU and their cadre of largely Neo-Liberal Blairite politics with some Socialist Cosplay made it hard to hold onto the Northern England heartlands they had held for decades where Leave is strong. With SNP crippling their hold in Scotland and them having an unsure idea on Brexit, it was a solid question as to Why they were even running.

Lib Dems are promising what Remainers want, I.E. canceling the Brexit vote and groveling for forgiveness before Donald Tusk. The Tories and Brexit Party promised to leave the EU.

What was Labour running on?

[Monster Hunter]

I mean the Labour party have been leaking votes since 2001, they lost 150 seats between then and 2010, if the exit poll is to be believed that's another 60 odd gone.

You are right. Labour are fucked. They have nowhere to move.

What they cant do is split up the monolith though, if they do and FPTP is maintained there is quite simply no way any one other than the Conservatives win future elections.

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The reality of FPTP means one of two parties will win. You break apart one of those and not the other your going to end up with a one party state.

This is the problem, the factions in Labour seemingly cant win together and they definitely cant win apart.

redcar, scunthorpe, these are out and out labour places, long known as forgotten run down places, staunchly holding on to unions. moving blue.

i don't think it can be understated just how bad things are looking for labour. im off to bed its going to be a weird world to wake up to. there hasn't been a gov with this kind of majority in a very long time, this gives boris the kind of executive power thats usually unheard of.

[Shadowferal]

I still remember Thatcher...
But I wonder if voters did.

[Elegiac]

I still remember Thatcher...
But I wonder if voters did.

Apparently not, since despite being in a state of continued poverty as a result of Thatcher's government the North still thinks the Tories aren't going to fuck them over even harder.

We really shouldn't be calling this a failure of democracy, though.

Britain's political system isn't democratic, and that's the issue.

[Zython]

I still remember Thatcher...
But I wonder if voters did.

I've come to realize that people believe the way things are are the way things have always been.

So not only do they not remember Thatcher, they don't remember May.

[Blur4stuff]

Good luck over there guys. I hope you don't get fucked on healthcare.

[Theodarzna]

The worst thing is that all that will come of this that the liberal who LARP as socialists will after having convinced the entire ideological apparatus that their agenda was hard left, borrowing the legitimacy of Corbyn for an entirely Neo-Liberal professional class politics party. The lesson Labour is likely to be from this won't be that "leftism" or "fully automated luxury communism" or whatever is wrong, the lesson will be that the workers are too racist, obsolete and stupid to serve as the vessels of Socialism. The Paul Mason line.

Paul Mason already prefigured this shift years ago with his book - can't remember the name now unfortunately - that argued that material class interests were passé. Now, "progressive values" were the marxist bedrock upon which socialism would be built.

Not to mention Laclau and Mouffe, Negri and the entire post-Marxist tradition. This has been a long time coming. We're finally reaching the logical conclusion of the left abandonment of class interests, only now it's not being registered in academic theory but political reality. Mouffe is really funny here because she's basically just Belgian Owen Jones, realizing at the 11th hour that you can't just piss on the working class and tell them it's raining, in an electoral system you eventually do need their votes.

[Deja Thoris]

Labour lost because the biggest and most important issue was Brexit and they didn't know where or stand on it. The Professional Managerial Class voters of London who love the EU and their cadre of largely Neo-Liberal Blairite politics with some Socialist Cosplay made it hard to hold onto the Northern England heartlands they had held for decades where Leave is strong. With SNP crippling their hold in Scotland and them having an unsure idea on Brexit, it was a solid question as to Why they were even running.

Lib Dems are promising what Remainers want, I.E. canceling the Brexit vote and groveling for forgiveness before Donald Tusk. The Tories and Brexit Party promised to leave the EU.

What was Labour running on?

This pretty much sums it up.

I'm not particularly inclined towards labour put to decline to take a position on the most important issue of the generation to avoid alienating people ironically alienated people because they saw it as a complete lack of leadership.

[Kallisto]

SNP kick Jo Swinson out of Westminster.

[Skroe]

jesus.



Red Jeremy shows a traditional socialist weasel DNA. Spoiler Alert: he'll reneg on his "he won't lead Labour into the next election" pledge as soon as he thinks he's reconsolidated his power base.

Socialists.
Are.
Always.
The.
Same.

This is the third time he's had an opportunity to do the honorable thing and resign and the third time he's declined. Because it is always about power. And with Momentum at his back, he'll stay where he is until he decides to give it up.

Boris Johnson truly won the lottery with his choice of adversaries.