[TV] The Mandalorian (*Spoilers*)

[rhorle]

Not that it really matters, even if it were official it'd still be fanwank intended to paper over a lore inconsistency.

But it is not a lore inconsistency. Everything points to hibernation through carbon freezing being a known thing. Your entire argument is claiming that a cardboard box can not look like a cardboard box if it is made by two different companies.

[Mormolyce]

But it is not a lore inconsistency. Everything points to hibernation through carbon freezing being a known thing. Your entire argument is claiming that a cardboard box can not look like a cardboard box if it is made by two different companies.

Now you're just being ridiculous, the carbon pods are not fucking cardboard boxes.

I don't know why you want to die on this hill, it's a pretty trivial point.

P.S. I looked up the Clone Wars episode in question, it's even fucking worse. This is just bad lore from top to bottom.

[Darththeo]

Now you're just being ridiculous, the carbon pods are not fucking cardboard boxes.

I don't know why you want to die on this hill, it's a pretty trivial point.

P.S. I looked up the Clone Wars episode in question, it's even fucking worse. This is just bad lore from top to bottom.

"You are being ridiculous because you don't accept MY head canon!"

Seriously, the only person being ridiculous on this is you. It is pretty clear that the chamber that Bespin had was crude, Lando clearly knew what carbon hibernation was, Leia was aware of hibernation sickness, so it was clearly a thing prior to Vader doing it to Han and attempting it on Luke.

[rhorle]

Now you're just being ridiculous, the carbon pods are not fucking cardboard boxes. I don't know why you want to die on this hill, it's a pretty trivial point. P.S. I looked up the Clone Wars episode in question, it's even fucking worse. This is just bad lore from top to bottom.

Are you being obtuse on purpose? I never said they were literally cardboard boxes. What I am saying is many different equipment can produce the same standardized product. Like a cardboard box. Or a doughnut like I used earlier. I am not dying on any hill. You are the one dying by clinging to your incorrect notion of what is canon and what is not.

[Kaleredar]

That's because they're using industrial carbon freezing that isn't intended for humans. This is exactly why I'm saying it should not look the same as Bespin's carbon freezing units, in order to sell the point that these are less "crude" and intended for live prisoners.

There's also nothing to imply that this is by any means a common method of transporting prisoners, for Mandalorians or anyone else.

It's nostalgia, and conflating elements of the original story.

The problem with arguing science in star wars, or that any real logic should apply, is that it's a space fantasy series about magic wizards.

We don't know what standard carbon freezing looks like. We don't know how Carbon freezing technology advanced in between Episode 6 and the Mandalorian. You have no grounds upon which to compare any form of carbon freezing to... well, anything. Because Carbon Freezing isn't real. The process used to do it isn't real. The equipment involved isn't real. How the equipment works is never described. How far ranging the applications of Carbon Freezing go are never discussed. Who was developing Carbon Freezing technology and for what purposes are never detailed. We have only the context of what's presented in the movies, which is very little. Certainly not enough to hand wave away what we saw in the Mandalorian as being some egregious breach of lore.

Not every trivial thing needs reams and reams of dialogue to explain it. That's usually seen as patently bad writing.

People, frankly, expect too much explicit explanation out of Star Wars. "How could Rey, a person extremely strong in the force who grew up hearing the stories and expkoits of the Jedi, know she could mind-trick a stormtrooper?!" "Why don't they just suicide hyperspeed ram EVERY ship into bigger ships whenever there's a problem if Holdo did it that one time!?" "If force ghost Yoda could summon lightning in that one specific spot that was extremely strong with the force, why didn't the force ghosts just help win ALL the battles in the past?!" You can infer reasons, based on the Universe, to explain those things. Not everything needs to be spelled out word for word, and doing so would be needlessly explanatory and cumbersome. Like I said. It'd be bad, unnecessary writing.

For example, MY assumption is, instead of Carbon Freezing being some weird technology that never ever developed beyond the single point we saw it and was only ever used once (despite context clues from Vader, Leia, and Lando alluding to its broader uses) as you seem to think, that Carbon Freezing was recognized, perhaps by the bounty hunting guild, as a viable technology to transport prisoners alive and modified and adapted from its myriad of uses, the extent of which we do not know, to be of practical use to bounty hunting individuals. There's no great leap in logic there. I don't need the series to tell me that for me to accept it as the explanation because it's a logical assumption to make on a rather trivial point of lore.

It's okay to use your imagination to fill in gaps, and it's okay to elicit that sort of interaction from the audience in using their brains to fill in odd spots in the universe.


Or, barring that, take the MST3k Mantra... "Repeat to yourself, it's just a show, I should really just relax..."

[Jotaux]

The problem with arguing science in star wars, or that any real logic should apply, is that it's a space fantasy series about magic wizards.

Even works of fiction purely about magic have rules and consistencies established. Having those things broken is a mark of trash.

Saying that I don't see anything inconsistent about the carbon freezing in Mandalorian.

[Kaleredar]

Even works of fiction purely about magic have rules and consistencies established. Having those things broken is a mark of trash.

Saying that I don't see anything inconsistent about the carbon freezing in Mandalorian.

But where's the distinction between "breaking consistency" and "deepening our understanding of the universe?"

As far as we knew, Dark Side users weren't able to shoot lightning from their fingers until literally 10 minutes before Return of the Jedi ended. It was never hinted at or alluded to in Episodes 4 or 5. Was that "breaking the rules and making shit up while going along?" Or was that "deepening the Universe?" The force was never used to levitate objects in Episode 4; all we knew is that it was like a sort of 6th sense and that Vader could choke people with it. Was it a "plot contrivance" when Luke freed his lightsaber from the ice to save himself from the wampa? Or was it embellishing our understanding of what the force could do?

In my previous examples... we don't know how much training it requires to do a jedi mind trick. It's not real. We don't know how force-attunement works with force ghosts and places strong in the force. The force isn't real. We don't know the logistics of ships hyperspeed ramming into other ships. Hyperspeed isn't real. And it's the same, as I said, for the carbon freezing thing.

So I don't think of those things as "THAT WOULDN'T HAPPEN IN THIS TOTALLY FICTIONAL UNIVERSE!" (because I'd then be arguing from a place of ignorance against the absolute authority on the matter which is the film I'm watching.) I think of it instead as "Oh, so THAT'S what happens!"

[Elim Garak]

Sometimes when people want to bitch about something, they will find what to bitch about even if there's nothing to bitch about. People are adorable.

[Super Kami Dende]

I might've given it more of a pass if they'd at least tried to make it look like a different, more sophisticated version of carbon freezing, but no it's pretty much just like the one in Empire complete with the little read-out display.

It's there for nostalgia. We can invent headcanon to explain it sure, but I still mark it as a demerit.

Carbon Freezing has been used across the EU and non-movie canon for years. It's hardly nostalgia as it has been something used by Bounty Hunters in Star Wars many many times since Empire released.



TCW is considered Canon.

You can literally cry and whinge as much as you want about it, but the fact remains it is a legitimate part of the canon and franchise and has been for YEARS

[Ihavewaffles]

oh noes, they are going after etsy...



Disney is hunting down the most popular Baby Yoda toys on Etsy.

Begun, the toy wars have

https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/2...wn-enforcement
By Chaim Gartenberg@cgartenberg Jan 17, 2020, 9:00am EST

Everyone loves Baby Yoda, but official merchandise of the character has been hard to find, since Disney didn’t want to spoil the surprise surrounding the little green alien by producing toys and t-shirts ahead of The Mandalorian’s premiere. In that vacuum, plenty of enterprising Etsy sellers have popped up to sell their own homemade Baby Yoda plushies and toys — at least, until Disney started issuing takedown notices, requiring that Etsy remove listings for bootleg merch.

Several Etsy sellers tell The Verge they have had their listings removed, cutting off popular products and disrupting existing sales. One seller, Tanya, who runs the stuffed animal storefront YourStuffedMemories, had been selling homemade Baby Yoda plushies for about a month when she received a message from Etsy. It had deactivated her sales listing after getting a complaint from Disney over her usage of the words “Star Wars,” “mandalorian,” and “Yoda” to sell the plushies.

Another seller, Kate, had a listing for a Baby Yoda-style dice bag at her HedgeCrafts store removed by Etsy for similar reasons, as did the 1OOAcreWoodshop storefront, which sells knit wool plushies of the character. Most of the stores that The Verge talked to had takedowns issued in the last week.

The original listings for these stores were extremely popular: one Yoda doll had “over 2,000 views and 300 favorites,” while another seller said that she used to see at least 100 to 200 views a day. Removing the listings also caused issues with existing orders for at least one seller, delaying shipments as they tried to reconcile orders in Etsy’s system between the old and new listings. (My own order for a Baby Yoda from YourStuffedMemories was among those delayed.)

The takedowns come as Disney has finally begun selling its own Baby Yoda toys and plushies, including dolls that are available to preorder and a planned Build-A-Bear partnership for later this year. Disney has been oddly slow to offer products featuring the hit character. It took several weeks after the show premiered before Disney sold even the most lackluster of T-shirts and mugs. In that void, the Etsy market has been one of the only places to get Baby Yoda products — often, better-looking ones than what Disney would offer.

It’s a difficult situation for sellers. Baby Yoda (like the terms “Star Wars,” “The Mandalorian,” and “Yoda”) is owned by Disney, and the company has the legal right to enforce its intellectual property and prevent others from profiting off its work. But fans have been eager for products Disney isn’t offering, and sellers’ handmade toys can deliver a burst of new customers to Etsy shops that typically sell much lower-profile goods, like stuffed unicorns and wall decorations. Tanya, the only seller to give approximate sales, told The Verge that she had sold 200 or so of the plushies.

Etsy declined to comment on the takedowns but pointed to its “Intellectual Property Policy,” which says that “Etsy reserves the right to disable any listing, shop, or account” in response to intellectual property claims. Disney has not yet responded to a request for comment.

Tanya has resumed selling her plushies under the more ambiguous name “The Baby Child,” with all direct references to Star Wars and The Mandalorian removed. She’s still concerned that Disney may try to remove the listing, but the effects of the takedown have already hit — not having the Star Wars keywords have made her product much harder to find, with views of her page slowing down to a trickle of two to 10 views a day.

Kate has relisted her dice bag, too, with a more generic description: “Is he an alien, a goblin?... his origins are unknown.” She says that her dice bag sales have also decreased since she’s had to relist it without the Star Wars keywords, but she thinks the slowdown may be for the best: all her bags are handmade, and she’s already got weeks of orders to fulfill.

The 1OOAcreWoodshop has taken a similar tack: it now sells a “Baby Alien Plush Doll.” Although like Kate and Tanya, the company tells The Verge that views have dropped considerably on the new listing as a result.

They’re not the only ones. A quick search on Etsy for “the child” or “baby alien” reveals a plethora of stores attempting to avoid Disney’s gaze. But Disney’s copyright claims seem to be oddly scattershot, and there are still thousands of listings on the site that blatantly sell “Baby Yoda” and “Mandalorian” merch. It’s not clear why these specific listings were targeted, but their popularity may have played a role. Kate said her dice bag jumped in popularity when it was highlighted by Geek Girls in December, driving shoppers to her store and boosting sales — at least until Disney spotted it.

[Volatilis]

Standard copy right practice. Dont quite understand why we needed such a long post about it.

Do star wars fans just need something to complain about? And because the characters in the mandalorian are solid they cant use the usual tropes?

[Ihavewaffles]

Standard copy right practice. Dont quite understand why we needed such a long post about it.

Do star wars fans just need something to complain about? And because the characters in the mandalorian are solid they cant use the usual tropes?

Most merch doesn't come out until spring, so sites like etsy is a soulsaver...

[Darththeo]

Standard copy right practice. Dont quite understand why we needed such a long post about it.

Do star wars fans just need something to complain about? And because the characters in the mandalorian are solid they cant use the usual tropes?

At this point, pretty much.

[Zaktar]

Standard copy right practice. Dont quite understand why we needed such a long post about it.

Do star wars fans just need something to complain about? And because the characters in the mandalorian are solid they cant use the usual tropes?

People want stuff, Disney is trying to stop them from having it, so they are complain. Is it really that hard to grasp? They give even fewer shits about Disney's copyright concerns and than Disney gives about their appetite for unlicensed merchandise.

[rhorle]

People want stuff, Disney is trying to stop them from having it, so they are complain. Is it really that hard to grasp? They give even fewer shits about Disney's copyright concerns and than Disney gives about their appetite for unlicensed merchandise.

Disney is not stopping people from having it. They never told the people to stop selling their products. They told them to stop using trademarked terms in their store listings. Yes it does have the effect of making the items less visible because people search for "Star Wars" and "Yoda" etc. There is a reason why the article says the people interviewed have already relisted their products with no references to star wars.

[Ihavewaffles]

George Lucas meets the Baby

https://twitter.com/Jon_Favreau/stat...orian-image%2F

[Jotaux]

But where's the distinction between "breaking consistency" and "deepening our understanding of the universe?"

As far as we knew, Dark Side users weren't able to shoot lightning from their fingers until literally 10 minutes before Return of the Jedi ended. It was never hinted at or alluded to in Episodes 4 or 5. Was that "breaking the rules and making shit up while going along?" Or was that "deepening the Universe?" The force was never used to levitate objects in Episode 4; all we knew is that it was like a sort of 6th sense and that Vader could choke people with it. Was it a "plot contrivance" when Luke freed his lightsaber from the ice to save himself from the wampa? Or was it embellishing our understanding of what the force could do?

In my previous examples... we don't know how much training it requires to do a jedi mind trick. It's not real. We don't know how force-attunement works with force ghosts and places strong in the force. The force isn't real. We don't know the logistics of ships hyperspeed ramming into other ships. Hyperspeed isn't real. And it's the same, as I said, for the carbon freezing thing.

So I don't think of those things as "THAT WOULDN'T HAPPEN IN THIS TOTALLY FICTIONAL UNIVERSE!" (because I'd then be arguing from a place of ignorance against the absolute authority on the matter which is the film I'm watching.) I think of it instead as "Oh, so THAT'S what happens!"

In A New Hope, Kenobi was able to move things with the force which is how he was able to distract the Stormtroopers with noise. Being able to force choke a guy is also indicative of being able to move physical objects. As long as a new idea is explained or doesn't make the prior events questioned its still consistent. For example the holdo maneuver, it brings up the question of why not do this all the time? It's inconsistent with the rest of the series.

[rhorle]

For example the holdo maneuver, it brings up the question of why not do this all the time? It's inconsistent with the rest of the series.

Yeah I don't like that part and the skip jumps from the newest movie. Why didn't the rebels take out every star destroyer with one x-wing. I am going to guess the size of ships colliding is what they will use as an excuse and no one normally sacrifices a capital ship. The skip jump sequence was even worse though. Because hyper jumps shouldn't work like that or be able to be tracked.

I just hope what ever future projects they do they stick with one over all director that is allowed to over see any series of films/shows. At least when they do new stuff that doesn't make sense it is cohesive to the rest of the movies.

[Skizzit]

I just hope what ever future projects they do they stick with one over all director that is allowed to over see any series of films/shows. At least when they do new stuff that doesn't make sense it is cohesive to the rest of the movies.

They really need a Kevin Feige for Star Wars. I guess that is what Kathleen Kennedy is supposed to be, but she sucks at her job in that regard. Regardless of if you like the Marvel films or not, you can tell they all fit into the same universe and remain constant. It is clear Feige oversees every single one and makes sure they all work together. They need the equivalent of a showrunner like big TV series have. Someone who's job it is to come up with the overall story and direction of the franchise and make sure everything sticks to that path. It is very clear now they had no idea where they were going when they wrote TFA and just figured they would make it up as they went along and that clearly didn't work out so well.

[PACOX]

They really need a Kevin Feige for Star Wars. I guess that is what Kathleen Kennedy is supposed to be, but she sucks at her job in that regard. Regardless of if you like the Marvel films or not, you can tell they all fit into the same universe and remain constant. It is clear Feige oversees every single one and makes sure they all work together. They need the equivalent of a showrunner like big TV series have. Someone who's job it is to come up with the overall story and direction of the franchise and make sure everything sticks to that path. It is very clear now they had no idea where they were going when they wrote TFA and just figured they would make it up as they went along and that clearly didn't work out so well.

People underwrite Kennedy as a well as give her too much credit. She isn't some kind of creative talent, she runs Lucasfilm on a macro level. With all her faults, Lucasfilm has been nothing but a success since she has been in charge. The success of the Mandalorian only makes her CV look better.

Also Feige is working with Lucasfilm.