If Tyrande indeed breaks out from the Alliance

[Yarathir]

Because in-game portrayal is super accurate in terms of numbers. Orcs totally all fled to Kalimdor on just three ships too. Because that's what makes sense here, as opposed to Jaina's own proclamation as to her goals for the purge or, you know, understanding what a purge even is (hint: it's another word for cleansing).




Am I supposed to be impressed by this strawman? Because for some reason I'm not.

Yes, purging it of, uhh.. what again? Presumed traitors?

This constant whining about the "Purge of Dalaran" is almost as tiring as the way Horde fans clung onto Taurajo for years because they had nothing else.

[GreenJesus]

The only reason the Night elves lost was because Anduin commanded the night elves to move their entire army to Silithus (fucking lol).

[eurojust]

The only reason the Night elves lost was because Anduin commanded the night elves to move their entire army to Silithus (fucking lol).

And Tyrande obeyed. She is just bad at war in general. Got defeated by Nathanos as well and never showed up to defend Azshara against the Goblin invasion.

[Mehrunes]

And Tyrande obeyed. She is just bad at war in general. Got defeated by Nathanos as well and never showed up to defend Azshara against the Goblin invasion.

Not only obeyed, she's the one who proposed the idea to Anduin in the first place. But there's still more! She also made preparations to put the plan into motion immediately, including sending word to Feathermoon to make place for reinforcements, before she even left Darnassian territory for the meeting of Alliance leaders.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And how does that preclude her from having mages open portals? It's not like mass-teleportation isn't a thing. Sylvanas had them to get the Forsaken out of Lordaeron to Orgrimmar. I guess Sylvanas cares more about her people than Tyrande does. And that is saying something.

Sylvanas blew up her own city with planning in advance while no one thought they would burn the tree down, the two aren't the same.

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Except that he did not counter my argument, because guerrilla warfare is and remains one of the best methods of defending huge swathes of untamed lands, and is actually a great strategy to adopt when you're waiting for reinforcements and need to slow down the enemy. That post only pointed out how guerrilla warfare ultimately couldn't stop the Horde war machine for long.

Has it ever occured to you that maybe I didn't answer that because I had other things to do or think about, since MMO-Champion isn't a job? Thanks for the reminder, I guess.

Also, a "little theory" is better than senseless flame, which is what you are doing.

Guerrilla warfare wouldn’t stop the horde at all as I pointed out guerrilla tactics flatly wouldn’t have worked and the horde would have taken the tree either way. They did all they could to stage a defence with the help of the wisp as they had no other options.

Now that there is no huge target to defend they could use guerrilla tactics where they couldn’t before.

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But they didn't even win against the occupation force. Or rather, they won after a long drawn-out fight and with the help of Gilneas, which is not a guarantee in this what if, since there is no indication that Greymane is willing to take up arms against what is basically his adopted child.

Why in the world would greynane need to take up arms against anduin? They want revenge on the horde not a human kingdom across the sea from there enemy. Unless you think for some reason the alliance would team up with the people who just tired to wipe them out to destroy there ally of many years.

[Varodoc]

Sylvanas blew up her own city with planning in advance while no one thought they would burn the tree down, the two aren't the same.
Guerrilla warfare wouldn’t stop the horde at all as I pointed out guerrilla tactics flatly wouldn’t have worked and the horde would have taken the tree either way. They did all they could to stage a defence with the help of the wisp as they had no other options.

Now that there is no huge target to defend they could use guerrilla tactics where they couldn’t before.

Not really, No. They still have targets to defend such as the few places they have left in Kalimdor under their control. They only just recently reclaimed Darkshore and losing it again would make all their efforts in BfA meaningless. Besides you don't wage wars just on conviction, you need food, weapons, resources, money, all things that the night elves hardly have left.

Why in the world would greynane need to take up arms against anduin? They want revenge on the horde not a human kingdom across the sea from there enemy. Unless you think for some reason the alliance would team up with the people who just tired to wipe them out to destroy there ally of many years.

Because Anduin won't let Tyrande destroy the peace he has carefully tailored throughout BfA. If it comes to war, he will not stand aside but will help his Horde allies. Anduin has devoted a lot of efforts into making sure Sylvanas could be removed, and he even tells Greymane that his way is the only way forward.

What, you really think Anduin would remain neutral? When he keeps Baine, the de-facto leader of the Horde, as his advisor in his castle? Not a chance.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Not really, No. They still have targets to defend such as the few places they have left in Kalimdor under their control. They only just recently reclaimed Darkshore and losing it again would make all their efforts in BfA meaningless. Besides you don't wage wars just on conviction, you need food, weapons, resources, money, all things that the night elves hardly have left.


Because Anduin won't let Tyrande destroy the peace he has carefully tailored throughout BfA. If it comes to war, he will not stand aside but will help his Horde allies. Anduin has devoted a lot of efforts into making sure Sylvanas could be removed, and he even tells Greymane that his way is the only way forward.

What, you really think Anduin would remain neutral? When he keeps Baine, the de-facto leader of the Horde, as his advisor in his castle? Not a chance.

If the horde want to try and retake darkshore then that would be the perfect time to use Guerrilla warfare as there is no longer a massive civ centre they need to defend and every other out post on the way got stacked by the horde on the way to the tree. There are Zero major targets left for the horde that the night elfs would have to worry about.

As for food you might not have noticed but the night elfs have these things called Druids. You know the things currently growing pumpkins in stormwind?

And no anduin would never attack the night elfs and even if he did absolutely no one in the alliance would back him up and side with the horde he’ll you’d Proabbly have a mass exodus of storm wind troops as we already know the average human doesn’t like/trust the horde races.

[Varodoc]

If the horde want to try and retake darkshore then that would be the perfect time to use Guerrilla warfare as there is no longer a massive civ centre they need to defend and every other out post on the way got stacked by the horde on the way to the tree. There are Zero major targets left for the horde that the night elfs would have to worry about.

As for food you might not have noticed but the night elfs have these things called Druids. You know the things currently growing pumpkins in stormwind?

And no anduin would never attack the night elfs and even if he did absolutely no one in the alliance would back him up and side with the horde he’ll you’d Proabbly have a mass exodus of storm wind troops as we already know the average human doesn’t like/trust the horde races.

Guerrilla warfare in a wasteland mostly ravaged by fire and blight?

Also druids can't just grow food out of nowhere.... and indeed they have to work at farms, because they don't just snap food into existence, they just speed up the farming process. You might not have noticed that there are no farms left in Darkshore?

Anduin wouldn't be attacking anyone because he wouldn't be the aggressor. It's still a fact that he is in very good terms with the Horde and thus would be very likely and would strategically benefit him to side with the Horde. Plus it would be a very short war anyway, as Tyrande and the Kaldorei are amongst the weakest races on Azeroth now. Besides, most leaders in the Alliance agree with him that the war must end. And if the only reason to achieve true peace is by putting a stop to Tyrande, then they will understand. Also, a lot of Alliance soldiers rejoiced that the war was finally over.

That's if Tyrande was even allowed to start a war in the first place. Since Anduin holds hostage the vast majority of Kaldorei civilians, he is in a prime position to blackmail Tyrande and ensure she does not start anything.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Guerrilla warfare in a wasteland mostly ravaged by fire and blight?

Also druids can't just grow food out of nowhere.... and indeed they have to work at farms, because they don't just snap food into existence, they just speed up the farming process. You might not have noticed that there are no farms left in Darkshore?

Anduin wouldn't be attacking anyone because he wouldn't be the aggressor. It's still a fact that he is in very good terms with the Horde and thus would be very likely and would strategically benefit him to side with the Horde. Plus it would be a very short war anyway, as Tyrande and the Kaldorei are amongst the weakest races on Azeroth now. Besides, most leaders in the Alliance agree with him that the war must end. And if the only reason to achieve true peace is by putting a stop to Tyrande, then they will understand. Also, a lot of Alliance soldiers rejoiced that the war was finally over.

That's if Tyrande was even allowed to start a war in the first place. Since Anduin holds hostage the vast majority of Kaldorei civilians, he is in a prime position to blackmail Tyrande and ensure she does not start anything.

Dark shore isn’t even close to a wasteland does this look any where close to the blasted lands or burning steps?



And no there are no farms in darkshore because there were never any farms in dark shore yet the night elfs didn’t all starve to death even when they had a massive civilian population.

Your also delusional if you think any of the alliance races even the humans would join with the horde to wipe out the night elfs just because they were happy a war needed. At most they would stay neutral but even that is incredibly generous.

Even if anduin tried to hold the night elf civs hostage it wouldn’t matter every one would know it’s a hollow threat.

[Varodoc]

Dark shore isn’t even close to a wasteland does this look any where close to the blasted lands or burning steps?



And no there are no farms in darkshore because there were never any farms in dark shore yet the night elfs didn’t all starve to death even when they had a massive civilian population.

Your also delusional if you think any of the alliance races even the humans would join with the horde to wipe out the night elfs just because they were happy a war needed. At most they would stay neutral but even that is incredibly generous.

Lack of trees, the present ones are in a terrible state, and that image doesn't show the southern half, which was ravaged by the Cataclysm. Plus even if the Kaldorei won the northern side is probably damaged by the blight anyway, especially in places around Lor'danel, which used to be the main Kaldorei settlement in the region.

Also the night elves didn't starve to death because they had other flourishing regions like Ashenvale, Hyjal, and Teldrassil, all of which are lost. It remains to be seen if Tyrande will successfully take Nordrassil.

Also No, it doesn't mean they'd wipe out the night elves, they'd just defeat Tyrande and her extremists. Not every night elf agrees with Tyrande, many take solace in the fact that the war is over, and Shandris disagrees with Tyrande. Plus yes, most of them would, because they all want peace, and if Tyrande undermines that peace, then she would be dealt with swiftly.

Anduin certainly wouldn't remain neutral, as I proved earlier, and he controls one of the strongest nations on Azeroth. Granted, the Horde alone would be more than enough to deal with Tyrande and her faction anyway. They wouldn't even have to do anything, by the mere fact that Tyrande cannot attack Orgrimmar they'd have won already, since Tyrande wants to wage a genocidal war.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Lack of trees, the present ones are in a terrible state, and that image doesn't show the southern half, which was ravaged by the Cataclysm. Plus even if the Kaldorei won the northern side is probably damaged by the blight anyway, especially in places around Lor'danel, which used to be the main Kaldorei settlement in the region.

Also the night elves didn't starve to death because they had other flourishing regions like Ashenvale, Hyjal, and Teldrassil, all of which are lost. It remains to be seen if Tyrande will successfully take Nordrassil.

Also No, it doesn't mean they'd wipe out the night elves, they'd just defeat Tyrande and her extremists. Not every night elf agrees with Tyrande, many take solace in the fact that the war is over, and Shandris disagrees with Tyrande. Plus yes, most of them would, because they all want peace, and if Tyrande undermines that peace, then she would be dealt with swiftly.

Anduin certainly wouldn't remain neutral, as I proved earlier, and he controls one of the strongest nations on Azeroth. Granted, the Horde alone would be more than enough to deal with Tyrande and her faction anyway. They wouldn't even have to do anything, by the mere fact that Tyrande cannot attack Orgrimmar they'd have won already, since Tyrande wants to wage a genocidal war.

You haven’t ever actually gone to dark shore have you? The trees aren’t in any worse of a state then they have ever been and even the areas the horde set up shop in isn’t any where close to a real wasteland like the blasted lands. https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...tch-8-1?page=5

Know what Ashenvale, Hyjal, and Teldrassil all have in command? None of them have farmlands, no tilled fields no farm life. The night elfs have never lived that way a guerrilla army would have no problem at all sustaining them selfs.

Not a single alliance race would side with the horde against the night elfs not a single one. The worgen have already disobeyed anduin to side with them, the goats wouldn’t turn around on the night elfs help with betrayal, the shinier goats want to purge the horde and wouldn’t change there tune on a dime, the void elfs blindly join after the horde already kicked them out, kul Tirans wouldn’t do a 180 after years of hate, the dwarfs wouldn’t turn on a long trusted ally and the gnomes and mecha gnomes would follow there lead. Even the humans wouldn’t join with the horde to kill the people they were standing beside months ago there would be a mass exodus.

Anduin would have to be the dumbest ruler ever to think that joining with the horde against the night elfs would be the right choice it would ruin his own kingdom let alone the alliance as a whole.

[Varodoc]

You haven’t ever actually gone to dark shore have you? The trees aren’t in any worse of a state then they have ever been and even the areas the horde set up shop in isn’t any where close to a real wasteland like the blasted lands. https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...tch-8-1?page=5

Know what Ashenvale, Hyjal, and Teldrassil all have in command? None of them have farmlands, no tilled fields no farm life. The night elfs have never lived that way a guerrilla army would have no problem at all sustaining them selfs.

Not a single alliance race would side with the horde against the night elfs not a single one. The worgen have already disobeyed anduin to side with them, the goats wouldn’t turn around on the night elfs help with betrayal, the shinier goats want to purge the horde and wouldn’t change there tune on a dime, the void elfs blindly join after the horde already kicked them out, kul Tirans wouldn’t do a 180 after years of hate, the dwarfs wouldn’t turn on a long trusted ally and the gnomes and mecha gnomes would follow there lead. Even the humans wouldn’t join with the horde to kill the people they were standing beside months ago there would be a mass exodus.

Anduin would have to be the dumbest ruler ever to think that joining with the horde against the night elfs would be the right choice it would ruin his own kingdom let alone the alliance as a whole.

As I already said, that's only half of Darkshore. And yes the trees are not in a preferable state, they are certainly not as flourishing as those in other forests of Kalimdor, hence why Darkshore was always a backwater region of the night elves.

It doesn't matter if they don't have farmlands in the game. Plenty of things in the lore don't appear in game. Zandalar and Quel'thalas also don't have farmlands in the game when we know they do. Druids don't materialize food out of nowhere, thus it can be reasonably inferred that night elves still have to farm the land, like literally every other sentient species.

As I already said, Tyrande does not have the support of the night elves. She has the support of her army. Plenty of night elves don't want war, and Shandris, who commands the Sentinels, disagrees with her. We've yet to know what Malfurion thinks too.

Anduin doesn't really have anything to lose anyway, since a war between Alliance + Horde vs. Kaldorei would be over in a few days and I doubt most civilians would even be aware of what happened. Or well, I suppose he can just formally support the Horde and then just watch the bodies of Tyrande's supporters pile up at the gates of Orgrimmar, since she made it clear that she wants to annihilate the Horde, and you won't do that with guerrilla warfare.

Btw, I should thank you for that link because it confirmed my previous claim that Lor'danel was completely covered in blight during the battle.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

As I already said, that's only half of Darkshore. And yes the trees are not in a preferable state, they are certainly not as flourishing as those in other forests of Kalimdor, hence why Darkshore was always a backwater region of the night elves.

It doesn't matter if they don't have farmlands in the game. Plenty of things in the lore don't appear in game. Zandalar and Quel'thalas also don't have farmlands in the game when we know they do. Druids don't materialize food out of nowhere, thus it can be reasonably inferred that night elves still have to farm the land, like literally every other sentient species.

As I already said, Tyrande does not have the support of the night elves. She has the support of her army. Plenty of night elves don't want war, and Shandris, who commands the Sentinels, disagrees with her. We've yet to know what Malfurion thinks too.

Anduin doesn't really have anything to lose anyway, since a war between Alliance + Horde vs. Kaldorei would be over in a few days and I doubt most civilians would even be aware of what happened.

Btw, I should thank you for that link because it confirmed my previous claim that Lor'danel was completely covered in blight during the battle.

again the tree's are the same as they always were ( other then higher res), dark shore isn't close to a wasteland.

your just making stuff up it doesn't work that way. mabye the zandalar and blood elfs just don't need to eat at all just because it doesn't appear in game doesn't mean its not in the lore.

the night elf's wouldn't support the horde in killing what's left of there army, end of.

Anduin has every thing to lose given that no one in the alliance would side with him not even his own people.

your also welcome i guess a broken clock is right twice a day and if you spew enough bull something has to be true right?

[Varodoc]

again the tree's are the same as they always were ( other then higher res), dark shore isn't close to a wasteland.

your just making stuff up it doesn't work that way. mabye the zandalar and blood elfs just don't need to eat at all just because it doesn't appear in game doesn't mean its not in the lore.

the night elf's wouldn't support the horde in killing what's left of there army, end of.

Anduin has every thing to lose given that no one in the alliance would side with him not even his own people.

your also welcome i guess a broken clock is right twice a day and if you spew enough bull something has to be true right?

Hmm actually yes, the southern region is a wasteland since it was hit by the Cataclysm, and the northern region was damaged by the battle and the blight. Also I forgot to mention how Darkshore is partly occupied by Greymane and his forces and I doubt they would be dragged into a war with the Horde. Especially since Greymane doesn't actually hate the Horde, nor does he hate all of the Forsaken anymore, he's just after Sylvanas. He is not nearly as radical as Tyrande is and indeed he remains at Anduin's side instead of storming off like Tyrande does.

We do know in the lore there are farmlands in Zandalari and Quel'thalas, so yes the fact that they are not in the game doesn't mean they are not there in the lore. Also we know that the night elves do use some farming techniques, bread is one of their main products, and since they shun arcane magic they couldn't have conjured it, which means they produced it the old way.

I didn't say they'd support the Horde, I said they wouldn't support Tyrande. Plenty of night elves, as can be seen in Boralus, are tired of conflict and wouldn't answer Tyrande's call to war. So she wouldn't be leading the night elves, she'd leading her own faction which does not comprise all night elves.

Most leaders in the Alliance would side with Anduin since they agree with him on having peace, and if Tyrande undermined world peace, one that was achieved with such hardship, they most certainly would not support her. Especially since it'd drag their countries into a war with the Horde as well. This is not an irrelevant detail at all, being dragged into another war with the Horde, one of the two mortal superpowers in the world, right after the last faction war ended would not be preferable for any nation whatsoever. Especially for those most hit by the Fourth War, like Stromgarde and Kul Tiras. And indeed every Alliance leader except Tyrande and Greymane were applauding Anduin for his success in bringing a just end to a terrible war. Also the people of Stormwind has no reason to side with an elf over their King, whom they respect and love. Unfortunately the people of Stormwind is not the Lore subforum of MMO-Champion, so they don't want to flay Anduin.

[Kithelle]

The Kaldorei suffered a lot of losses as well, also Malfurion did nothing in Darkshore aside from killing a few soldiers to look cool, also Tyrande spent the entire BfA tirelessly trying to retake a charred wasteland called Darkshore. She'd never win a faction war and she'd be alone against Horde + Alliance.

You do know canonically The Night Elves won Darkshore? No I'm guessing you didn't...

[Varodoc]

You do know canonically The Night Elves won Darkshore? No I'm guessing you didn't...

I never said they didn't? It doesn't change the fact that they suffered several losses, required the majority of the expansion to do, and didn't do it alone but with the help of Gilneas.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Hmm actually yes, the southern region is a wasteland since it was hit by the Cataclysm, and the northern region was damaged by the battle and the blight.

We do know in the lore there are farmlands in Zandalari and Quel'thalas, so yes the fact that they are not in the game doesn't mean they are not there in the lore. Also we know that the night elves do use some farming techniques, bread is one of their main products, and since they shun arcane magic they couldn't have conjured it, which means they produced it the old way.

I didn't say they'd support the Horde, I said they wouldn't support Tyrande. Plenty of night elves, as can be seen in Boralus, are tired of conflict and wouldn't answer Tyrande's call to war. So she wouldn't be leading the night elves, she'd leading her own faction which does not comprise all night elves.

Most leaders in the Alliance would side with Anduin since they agree with him on having peace, and if Tyrande undermined world peace, one that was achieved with such hardship, they most certainly would not support her. Especially since it'd drag their countries into a war with the Horde as well. Also the people of Stormwind has no reason to side with an elf over their King, whom they respect and love. Unfortunately the people of Stormwind is not the Lore subforum of MMO-Champion, so they don't want to flay Anduin.

I've linked actual pictures showing its not a wasteland.

there is nothing any where to show that the night elf's have ever had farm lands or farmed in such a way.

the night elfs aren't a hive mind she doesn't need the support of every one to still be leading the night elfs.

no one would back anduin it's not about siding with an elf over the king its about attacking the alley's you have fought with for years along side the faction that has been trying to wipe you out for the same amount of years. we also already know the alliance army is willing to go against anduin and they don't like/trust the horde.

at this point nothing you are posting is based on reality we already know how the alliance feels about the horde and there is no basis at all that they would ever side with them against there allies after all war's they have been though together.

[Varodoc]

I've linked actual pictures showing its not a wasteland.

there is nothing any where to show that the night elf's have ever had farm lands or farmed in such a way.

the night elfs aren't a hive mind she doesn't need the support of every one to still be leading the night elfs.

no one would back anduin it's not about siding with an elf over the king its about attacking the alley's you have fought with for years along side the faction that has been trying to wipe you out for the same amount of years. we also already know the alliance army is willing to go against anduin and they don't like/trust the horde.

at this point nothing you are posting is based on reality we already know how the alliance feels about the horde and there is no basis at all that they would ever side with them against there allies after all war's they have been though together.

Actual pictures of the northern half, and one of those pictures shows how Lor'danel was covered in blight.

Spice bread is one of the most common and basic Kaldorei foods, and well it should be obvious then that they do have farms, since the only alternative is that they conjured it, but they reject Arcane magic.

It would still be incorrect to say she's leading the night elves, because that would imply the entire race follows her when it's not the case. Actually it's always been incorrect to say that, since she only led the nation of Darnassus, and never led the neutral night elves of Val'sharah.

Hmm, actually pretty much every Alliance leader complimented Anduin for the peace he achieved and expressed their desire to maintain such peace, thus they would not support Tyrande. Also, uhm No, there is no indication that the Alliance army is willing to go against Anduin, that has never happened before and that cannot happen by law because Anduin is the undisputed leader of the Alliance army as its High King. Plus many soldiers take joy in the fact that the war is over and fully support Anduin.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

there is no indication that the Alliance army is willing to go against Anduin, that has never happened before and that cannot happen by law because Anduin is the undisputed leader of the Alliance army as its High King.

ya i'm done with you.

[Kithelle]

I never said they didn't? It doesn't change the fact that they suffered several losses, required the majority of the expansion to do, and didn't do it alone but with the help of Gilneas.

Beat the Horde forces their, sent Sylvanas' leading man running with his tail between your legs and you try and make it sound like they would get defeated when they won...also seems like you're trying to call something a barren wasteland that isn't.